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      10-10-2011, 02:13 PM   #199
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What a pickle??? I would rather opt for the IWC as well but to each his own taste. I would go with the bbk personally. Up to you though...either choice would leave you with a smile so it won't matter.
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      10-10-2011, 02:14 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by username11 View Post
BBK. Panerai are the Ed Hardy apparel of the watch world. Huge, ostentatious, overpriced: all representative of bad taste and the need for the largest/most noticeable over quality. Almost as tacky as Breitling's worst.

If the topic was "BBK or IWC Portuguese?" it'd be a different story.

As always, just my opinion!
Wow, you are so far off the reservation...it's funny

Ed Hardy of the watch world would be Invicta, higher end brand even remotely close to getting this kind of criticism is Bell & Ross.

IWC Portuguese, is that COSC certified, just curious - You do realize all of Breitling watches are certified right?

No doubt, I want a Top Gun...but your post is like fighting words for anyone who owns those brands.

Personally, BBK is overkill - I would pick up a new watch, maybe a GMTIIC.
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      10-10-2011, 02:46 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Nine View Post
Wow, you are so far off the reservation...it's funny
2nd
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      10-10-2011, 02:50 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by username11 View Post
BBK. Panerai are the Ed Hardy apparel of the watch world. Huge, ostentatious, overpriced: all representative of bad taste and the need for the largest/most noticeable over quality. Almost as tacky as Breitling's worst.

If the topic was "BBK or IWC Portuguese?" it'd be a different story.

As always, just my opinion!
Heh p ignorant. I own Panerai and IWC. Panerai is very simple utilitarian design. All high end watches are overpriced, some more than others.

Not really sure how you can say a PAM 292 is "huge and ostentatious" its one of the aesthetically simplest design watches out there and is all black.
Overpriced it definitely is, but its worth what the market will bear. They hold their value very well, usually much better than IWC.

IWC Portuguese is a large watch and overpriced as well, but also very nice and not a bad investment. Apples and oranges though.
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      10-10-2011, 03:29 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nine View Post
Wow, you are so far off the reservation...it's funny

Ed Hardy of the watch world would be Invicta, higher end brand even remotely close to getting this kind of criticism is Bell & Ross.

IWC Portuguese, is that COSC certified, just curious - You do realize all of Breitling watches are certified right?

No doubt, I want a Top Gun...but your post is like fighting words for anyone who owns those brands.

Personally, BBK is overkill - I would pick up a new watch, maybe a GMTIIC.
I realize this thread is old and such but it involves two things I LOVE. Cars and watches. All this thread lacks is pictures of hot girls.

OP, good choice on going with the watch vs bbk. I won't throw in my two cents on watch choice because that is always personal if it's not for investment purposes. I only buy watches I presently don't think I'll ever sell, and will eventually give to my future son or son in law. So you can imagine that trend pieces or non classic pieces won't find their way into my hands. Also, a watch should speak to you. That's the one you get. You don't buy the one that some guy told you is highly desirable or from a more respected manufacturer etc. (unless you're dumb and trying to buy a Jacbo&co 5 time zone quartz tragedy, in which, listen to your friend...he's a cool dude)

BBK will be popular since it's a car forum. BBK is my favorite mod...and if I were ever to mod my car, I'd throw on some yellow banana calipers from AP or Brembo. But it's a depreciating asset thrown at an even faster depreciating asset - so as long as we're being semi-cost conscious about not buying two toys at once, buying the watch made more sense.

I'd love to see this same poll thrown up at timezone.com's general forum. Or even thepurists.com. I bet it'd be filled with Lange Datograph sporting old farts yelling at you for even thinking about modding your car.

I recently got a black dial daytona over the 5001-07 IWC port a couple weeks ago and one day would love to have an AP ROC in pink gold. But at the going rate, that won't ever happen.
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      10-10-2011, 03:34 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by TampaBlueE90 View Post
IWC Portuguese is a large watch and overpriced as well, but also very nice and not a bad investment. Apples and oranges though.

Meh...can't call it an investment unless you wanna call watches that lose value an 'investment.'

5001 doesn't hold value at all. Used, it is always cheaper even if never worn. And new, it is always discounted unless you're buying straight from Richemont, in which they may only knock off tax.

Most watches can't be sold for more at a future date than at original msrp unless you do not account for inflation. Anyone can say they bought a submariner in 1964 for $170 (actual cost) and that they now have a watch they could sell for maybe like 2 grand. Probably one of the best investments anyone could have made in watches was a Newman Daytona/exotic dial. You'd have made like 10x the money if you kept the dial and plastic 'crystal' in good shape.
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      10-10-2011, 04:12 PM   #205
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Most watches can't be sold for more at a future date than at original msrp unless you do not account for inflation.
Yea, most of the watches I have purchased for a reasonable but not huge discount of msrp have either retained full/gained a small amount of value in the time I've owned them. A large part of this is due to watch manufacturers regular price increases/and maybe a small part of inflation. I kind of feel like they are a little bit of a guard to currency fluctuations too. To me having a watch that you can enjoy/protect against inflation is better than having cash sitting around if you are doing nothing with it. I guess "investment" is one of those words though that can mean a lot of things.

I also like to find ways to justify my purchases hah.
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      10-10-2011, 04:25 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TampaBlueE90 View Post
Yea, most of the watches I have purchased for a reasonable but not huge discount of msrp have either retained full/gained a small amount of value in the time I've owned them. A large part of this is due to watch manufacturers regular price increases/and maybe a small part of inflation. I kind of feel like they are a little bit of a guard to currency fluctuations too. To me having a watch that you can enjoy/protect against inflation is better than having cash sitting around if you are doing nothing with it. I guess "investment" is one of those words though that can mean a lot of things.

I also like to find ways to justify my purchases hah.
Word. Most manufacturers in the 2011 year have had about 2-3 price increases. Inflation is definitely not a cause for this in such a short term. All gold pieces are affected by the illogical rapid rise in gold price per oz but all high end watches are skyrocketing in the US due to the rapid weakening of the USD to the CHF. I remember when I was in Geneva in 2009, you could basically estimate that one USD was equal to 1 CHF (if I remember correctly, 1 CHF was worth even less than 1 USD). Now today, 1 USD equals .904 CHF.
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      10-10-2011, 04:41 PM   #207
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      10-10-2011, 04:42 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by username11 View Post
So to me, I associate Panerai with Ed Hardy shirts, blowouts, and this guy:


Wtf...why do you have pictures of me and are posting them on public forum?????????

Panerai's prestige along with more high end brands like AP, PP, etc. is more about the company's history/heritage than their potential for professional use. I could show you a 100k vintage Panerai that you would think came from a random garage sale. By no means flashy/ostentatious, something that would only appeal to a very select few collector(you would probably refer to as an "idiot with bad taste") No doubt the high end watch game is all about marketing and exclusivity. The regular price increases watchmakers are doing now may be in part to price out the middle class and keep their products exclusive.

On an annual basis though where I live, I probably see less than 5 Panerai's while I am out and about.

Last edited by TampaBlueE90; 10-10-2011 at 04:47 PM.
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      10-10-2011, 04:53 PM   #209
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Although it is certified by NASA for space flight, I use the chronometer most often for timing pasta.
I am not kidding when I say that I just busted up laughing for 30 seconds straight sittin in my office. I was scared someone was going to walk by and poke their head in to explain what is so funny.

yea, I bet no one who can afford a diving watch has ever tested the depth past the hot tub depth of 3 feet or used the helium gas escape valve.....because there is no buildup of gases in your watch when you're sitting on the 25th floor above ground level at your desk.

Use my chrono function for timing laps? please, my car has never seen a track. The only thing I use my chrono for is timing the parking meter or how long until my laundry is done. I'm not old enough to cook pasta yet.
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      10-10-2011, 04:59 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by username11 View Post
I'm not sure it's worth debating personal taste. There are few people large enough to pull off a Luminor. On most, it looks like a boat anchor and larger than their arm. The opposite of subtle and therefore the opposite of elegance. You have to get your shirts made with an inch bigger left cuff.
It looks really small on my gorilla arm. Can't even hit the first hole on an OEM strap, seriously I'm not able to wear a new one out of the store.

Not when you sport nothing but RG with your cuffs flipped lol!!!

I agree they do look funny on some people, I don't know why more of the little guys don't buy the 40mm versions, they do make them..

I cannot wait to pick up the PAM372, 47mm is going to be very nice on my gigantic wrist!
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      10-10-2011, 06:28 PM   #211
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BBK. Panerai are the Ed Hardy apparel of the watch world.
WTF is this guy talking about?

This amazing timepiece manufacturer was founded in 1860. Inform yourself. So much rich history and heritage.
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      10-10-2011, 08:38 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by username11 View Post
Inform yourself. Today's Panerai and Panerais have little to do with the historical Panerais of lore. Their military importance was always limited and for the better part of the last century dubious (and even then, do you really want to wear a reminder of Italy's performance during World War II on your wrist?), culminating with a whimper during the last twenty years out of military spec as a fashion item made popular by none other than Sylvester Stallone. The current brand owners are skillful at recreating their military "heritage" in order to sell easily scratched expensive watches to office workers and bankers who have likely never handled a gun or even been in a fist fight.
Besides, a brand's wealth in history (and marketing) does not dictate the class or lack thereof of its current offerings, one must only look at Panerai's sibling in contemporary tackiness, Louis Vuitton (founded 1854), to witness the same phenomenon:

Panerai today is about as "authentic" a watch maker as Brunello Cucinelli is an authentic outfitter to the rugged explorers always pictured in their ad campaigns. Good marketing, yes, reality: no.
There is so much irony in your above personal grievance. You disregard the origins of this watch manufacturer, or at least play-it-down, yet in the same breath make note of its historical lineage, which, by the way, all but calls into question your original asinine comparison of it to the less historically relevant Ed Hardy brand -a damn clothing line with a short shelf-life. If you were really as clever as you hoped to be, a fairer, more fitting comparison to Ed Hardy would be Movado. I digress...

Your nitpicking about these watches being easily scratched is trivial at best and does little to convince the reader that you're someone privy to what is and what isn't considered quality. An informed reader and timepiece aficionado will brush your words off, for we can assume they already accept the inherent risks of ownership, like with any other expensive consumer good. What's your point again? A watch of this caliber that is actually used and shows signs of actual usage, adds character. Or perhaps you prefer those who simply purchase expensive timepieces, post their collection online ad nauseam, and only wear them for "special occasions"?

Moreover, The discontinuation from supplying the Italian military with spec'd Panerais to now recreating exclusively a civilian line of watches strengthens, not weakens, the brand. For one; The watch originated with a purpose. This is realized with every piece they sell. It served the military well during its tenure. Two; the DNA of these timepieces have remained consistent (Panerai Historic). Continuity comes at a price. Three; Popularity is not a fair segue to ad hominen-laced attacks toward a celebrity, who by the way, is known to be entrenched into the watch lifestyle/ culture for decades. I'd say Sly Stone is a great ambassador.


You don't prefer the watch? That's fine. But to go on a childish rant stereotyping those who enjoy what this company creates is behavior of the lowest common denominator.
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      10-11-2011, 04:08 AM   #213
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Some people have no style. Others could care less about watches, car they drive, or how they look. While others appreciate many of those things. To bag on those that don't feel the same way they do is ignorant. Just because you don't like something don't be a hater on others! .. Funny how it was said Ed Hardy was compared to be common as Panerai in the watch world. Really take a poll or how many people do you know actually have one?? I actually own one and don't know many people that do or see them wearing one. For those that like them enjoy my pic..Pam 170 (which was only made for a few years and yes holds a pretty good value) and my Super Avenger (which was sold).
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      10-11-2011, 04:39 AM   #214
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Watch doesn't even look special, please explain?
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      10-11-2011, 07:31 AM   #215
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And? Supercars, for example, are sold to those who have zero connection to auto-racing. That's not a fair critique.
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      10-11-2011, 11:00 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by username11 View Post
I'm not sure it's worth debating personal taste. There are few people large enough to pull off a Luminor. On most, it looks like a boat anchor and larger than their arm. The opposite of subtle and therefore the opposite of elegance. You have to get your shirts made with an inch bigger left cuff.

So to me, I associate Panerai with Ed Hardy shirts, blowouts, and this guy:


Maybe it's my proximity to NJ..

As for COSC certifications, do professionals actually use professionally-branded watches for professional purposes? I think it's all advertising. Never seen a pilot with a Breitling, never seen a diver with a Panerai. Usually they are using something far more functional, accurate, and cheap. I have this:
I love this forum, watches and M3s...I'll try to bring them all together in my post.

I don't think you can call out Panerai without calling out many other high end brands regarding size. Railmaster XXL, ever see anybody wearing that thing? or the new massive date-just? Zenith has some massive watches too...I think all brands are guilty in one way or another. Your post is like the people who hate Dave Matthews, because you hate the fans...really, Panerai makes some nice looking watches, do d-bags wear Panerai..maybe...

Being a watch snob, is very much like being a car snob. But to me, you don't go around telling people their wives are ugly or their car is garbage, let people enjoy what they want.

I enjoy when other people like things that I don't like, it makes the things I like more unique, if everyone wore an IWC, would IWC really be as special?
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      10-11-2011, 11:14 AM   #217
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Sorry username...the comparison to Ed Hardy is nothing short of laughable. Your writing style would lead one to believe you might be credible and actually have some valid points, but that went out the window with the Ed Hardy comparison.
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      10-11-2011, 01:46 PM   #218
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      10-11-2011, 02:18 PM   #219
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I get that the types of guys who might wear Ed Hardy may also find Panerai desirable, but you need to isolate the two. The guys who you find sporting Panerai doesnt automatically make it a junk manufacture. Panerai makes decent watches - overpriced for the movement enclosed within the case in most examples, yes, but that's an argument that most high end watch buyers are not informed enough to partake in.

LA guys could probably understand this analogy. Maserati GranTurismo owners in LA are 9 times out of 10 the kind of guy who will go to bars and clubs 20 years past the appropriate age, sport bad facial hair, metal jewelry, tight fitting clothes, white loafers, sunglasses that are appropriate for sorority girls and usually boot cut jeans with pocket flaps and embroidery. However, you can't slam that car for the guys who usually spring for it. It's a fantastic sounding car, that performs mediocre, but subjectively looks great and a star seller in the company's lineup. (also has the worst stock spacing on the rims of all performance cars LOL)

I used to love the AP offshore...but after they started to churn out a special edition every month for every celebrity/boutique/event etc, and it became the most coveted watch of the nouveau riche, I decided I wouldn't ever want to own one. It's the Maserati GT of watches. A fine automobile/timepiece, with unfortunately awful clientele.
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      10-11-2011, 02:41 PM   #220
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I really don't get the Panerai/ Ed Hardy connection. Maybe it was a silly quip by Username. There is nothing cheesy about the Panerai brand. There's very little "bling" to the models and the watches are handsome, not gaudy.
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