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      05-05-2010, 11:30 PM   #1
Seadog
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Occasional track day brake pads...?

I didn't get any feedback to my question on the UK regional forum so decided to try this one....

For the occasional track day, once or twice per year, what’s the recommendation/opinion, Pagid RS 19’s or Yellow Stuff brake pads?

From my own research I know the Pagid pads are very good but also very noisy and expensive. Don't know anything about Yellow Stuff...

Also, does anyone know what brand of pads BMW offer as their OEM 'sports pads'?
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      05-07-2010, 04:57 AM   #2
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No feedback on this site either?
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      05-07-2010, 05:10 AM   #3
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I'm in that classification of maybe 3-4 track days per year. I usually just stick with the stock pads and keep a close watch on the wear. The race pads like Pagid's are great but I find they chew up the rotors too much. I try to keep the expense down so I back off a bit on the track and run at maybe 9/10's instead of all out. It also saves my tires, as I run the Michelin pilot Sport Cups which run about $1600 for 4 here in the US. You can still have loads of fun at 9/10ths.
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      05-07-2010, 05:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIO View Post
I'm in that classification of maybe 3-4 track days per year. I usually just stick with the stock pads and keep a close watch on the wear. The race pads like Pagid's are great but I find they chew up the rotors too much. I try to keep the expense down so I back off a bit on the track and run at maybe 9/10's instead of all out. It also saves my tires, as I run the Michelin pilot Sport Cups which run about $1600 for 4 here in the US. You can still have loads of fun at 9/10ths.
+1

I'm running the BMW performance brake pads. They are excellent on a track (Nordschleife for me). But as stated above, they are expensive and city driving is a pain. For 1 or 2 track days it's not worth it. I probably won't buy another set of performance pads next year...
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      05-07-2010, 07:39 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Seadog View Post
No feedback on this site either?
Are you trying to find a single pad for street and track? Your frequency on track really should not determine the kind of pad you need. The Pagid 19 and 29 are both endurance type pads, and are relatively rotor friendly (for a race pad) and work well on track. They are not street pads, and due to noise, dust, and wear, they are unsuitable for the street. The OE pad can work on track, if neither the track nor your driving style is extremely brake intensive, or, you are willing to manage the brakes accordingly. There is no true dual purpose pad, so you have to decide whether your compromise will be track or street performance.
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      05-08-2010, 04:29 AM   #6
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Thanks for the feedback..

Track days at Nurburgring & Zolder planned during a 7 day road trip so wanted to fit track pads for this period only. Once back at home I’d refit the original street pads. I really don’t want to drive all the way from Scotland to Germany and Belgium and end up not enjoying the track time because of brake fade…

I also run on Michelin PS Cup+. In fact just replaced all 4 corners for the 3rd time a couple of weeks ago and at £1300 a pop it’s not a nice experience…
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      05-08-2010, 06:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiss_cornholio View Post
+1

I'm running the BMW performance brake pads. They are excellent on a track (Nordschleife for me). But as stated above, they are expensive and city driving is a pain. For 1 or 2 track days it's not worth it. I probably won't buy another set of performance pads next year...
Do you have a part number for the BMW Performance brake pads? I don't think we get those in the US, but I would like to check. And how much do they cost?

A driving instructor at the BMW Performance Center in the US has also told me that they work very well on the Nordschleife.
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      05-08-2010, 06:34 AM   #8
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M3 Sports Brakes.pdf

The attached is a quote from my local stealer in Scotland and gives the part numbers. I believe they're available in the US also...

Last edited by Seadog; 05-08-2010 at 10:08 AM. Reason: spelling
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      05-08-2010, 08:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadog View Post
Attachment 383556

The attached is a quote from my local stealer in Scotland and gives the part numbers. I believe they're available in in US aslo...
Those prices are in Pounds Sterling...bloody hell!
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      05-08-2010, 10:14 AM   #10
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Yeah not cheap....The stealer also quoted just under £200 to fit them.... Needless to say I'll be doing it myself if and when I do change from OEM street pads...

Last edited by Seadog; 05-08-2010 at 10:15 AM. Reason: info
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      05-08-2010, 10:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadog View Post
Attachment 383556

The attached is a quote from my local stealer in Scotland and gives the part numbers. I believe they're available in the US also...
Thanks a lot. That's very expensive indeed.
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      05-08-2010, 10:33 PM   #12
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I use Carbotech for my track days and I am so far extremely happy with them. I run the XP10 compound and swap the pads for every event. In your case, the XP8 may be more appropriate.
Good luck.
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      05-10-2010, 07:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadog View Post
Attachment 383556

The attached is a quote from my local stealer in Scotland and gives the part numbers. I believe they're available in the US also...
My dealer tells me that he can get them within three weeks. The price is $948.39.

Expensive, no doubt, but they don't void the free maintenance. And my dealer will install them for free if I bring him my car when the pads need to be replaced. So I'm tempted.

Of course, I could buy non-BMW pads, have them installed by someone other than my dealer, and re-install the BMW pads before bringing the car to service. But there are two reasons why I'm hesitant: 1) laziness; 2) if I buy aftermarket pads, I guess I should also get aftermarket brake fluid, and I'm worried that a brake fluid change can easily be detected (color difference).
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      05-11-2010, 01:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drivendriver View Post
My dealer tells me that he can get them within three weeks. The price is $948.39.

Expensive, no doubt, but they don't void the free maintenance. And my dealer will install them for free if I bring my him car when the pads need to be replaced. So I'm tempted.

Of course, I could buy non-BMW pads, have them installed by someone other than my dealer, and re-install the BMW pads before bringing the car to service. But there are two reasons why I'm hesitant: 1) laziness; 2) if I buy aftermarket pads, I guess I should also get aftermarket brake fluid, and I'm worried that a brake fluid change can easily be detected (color difference).
I don't think you'd enjoy daily driving with the BMW sports pads fitted as I understand they make lots of noise.... As verified by 5th Gear (UK TV show) when they tested the M3...

Free maintenance..... that option never came to the UK.
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      05-11-2010, 03:04 PM   #15
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I wouldn't shell out that kind of cash, if you're only tracking 1-2 days a year I would suggest Hawk HPS pads or if you're willing to sacrifice a tad more rotor wear HP-PLUS.

In my experience (different lighter car mind you) Hawk's performed much better than Carbotechs.
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      05-11-2010, 07:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polak View Post
I wouldn't shell out that kind of cash, if you're only tracking 1-2 days a year I would suggest Hawk HPS pads or if you're willing to sacrifice a tad more rotor wear HP-PLUS.

In my experience (different lighter car mind you) Hawk's performed much better than Carbotechs.
A fair point, but this year in June alone I've 3 track days within a 5 day period, 2 x Nurburgring + 1 x Zolder, so want pads which have the best performance to cost ratio. That said and after further research on the various M3 forums my conclusions are:

1. Good track pads are only suitable for the track and must be swapped back out for daily driving.
2. I’ve found positive feedback on all the brake pads I’ve considered. It appears there’s no ‘bad’ pads out there..?
3. That said two pads come out ahead in recommendations: - Pagid RS19 and BMW Sports Pads….

The BMW and Pagid pads are in the same high end price bracket, around 600 GBP for a complete set, so the old saying of ‘you get what you pay for’ appears to be true.
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      05-11-2010, 11:53 PM   #17
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No mention of Performance Friction pads?

Maybe HPS pads for street and some track?
Some venders sell Cool Carbon pads. Mr.5 likes them on the E90 side for street and track: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=pads
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."

Last edited by aus; 05-11-2010 at 11:59 PM.
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      05-12-2010, 01:06 AM   #18
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I do want to go BBK really bad but can't justify it when BMW gives me brakes for free
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      05-12-2010, 09:17 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadog View Post
A fair point, but this year in June alone I've 3 track days within a 5 day period, 2 x Nurburgring + 1 x Zolder.
That's much more than your original posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadog View Post
so want pads which have the best performance to cost ratio.
If you were in the US, the BMW pads, because the dealership would continue to warranty your rotors when you chewed them up using the sports pads(I think?). But since your in the UK, HPS/HP+s because you won't kill your rotors, they're cheap, and will give you 90% the performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadog View Post
Good track pads are only suitable for the track and must be swapped back out for daily driving.
Unless you're a pro-driver, your not going to improve you're lap times ALL that much on a set of HP-Plus' vs. Pagid RS-19s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadog View Post
The BMW and Pagid pads are in the same high end price bracket, around 600 GBP for a complete set, so the old saying of ‘you get what you pay for’ appears to be true.
Hawk Blues or HT-10s are the equivalent pad to RS-19s, and much cheaper. Look into those, if you you don't care about rotor replacement.

Last edited by Polak; 05-12-2010 at 09:46 AM.
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      05-12-2010, 11:16 AM   #20
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Cool Carbon has some great street performance pads that you can run on the track, and run them hard. They have optimum grip more so than the OE pads in cold, and hot conditions, and you will have more modulation of the brake pedal to really dial in that perfect amount of trailbraking, etc...

We've got them listed right here, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
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      06-28-2010, 01:15 PM   #21
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I'm in the same boat - maybe 5 track days a year and want a pad that will work well on the track but not be noisy on the road.

I change the wheels whenever we go to the track but I'm a bit hesitant about doing the pads as well. How much extra work is it? I know you need a special tool.

How long does it take you to change all the pads round?

I am less concerned with brake performance and more concerned with the state of the brakes after the track day. I usually get bad vibrations after a track day with heavy braking.
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      06-28-2010, 05:24 PM   #22
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There are lots of opinions on this topic, so I'll add my 2 cents.

I really like the Padgid RS-19 pad. Now I have not used any other pads so I can not compare. However, I would say that it is preferable to have one set of track pads and one set of street pads. Too many compromises to find one set of pads that will serve both needs. Plus if you have a true track pad you'll find that you will have more confidence that they will be there when you need them and not worry about whether they're getting too hot or not.

Now about the Pagids. Both Seadog and Roadster are in Europe so I would think the Pagids are going to be a bit less expensive since the pad packaging looks (the box doesn't say) like it's made in Germany. First fitment. Exactly like stock, has all the stock springs and clips and you can even put the wear sensors on if you want as it has the cut out for that too. Some aftermarket pads don't have those. I understand those other pads work fine too, but if the spring clips aren't needed on the back of the pad, why did the BMW engineers put them there?

Performance: I've only used mine for one track event and will get more use over the summer including one stretch of 4 track days straight, however, these pads came very highly recommended by 3 other E92 track drivers (all instructor level). The pad works good enough on the street with good dry/cold grip (I'm not sure what they would be like if it's raining and you have your first brake application). They do squeal like a garbage truck so I don't think they're any good for prolonged street driving, however, they are good enough for the drive to the track and back. On the track I had absolutely no issues at all with very nice brake feel, no fade and very little wear over this first 2 days of track use. Granted this is not a very demanding track (Road Atlanta) for brakes, but I know one other BMW driver (not M3) who was having significant brake fade. I have used stock pads on the track and these pads are much better in terms of feel especially late in the day when you are going faster and the demands on the pad are greater and I had no change in the brake pedal at the end of the day or event in contrast to the stock pads which always felt like the brakes needed to be bled (which does help to get the pedal back to a stock feel and movement).

Based on the wear when I took off the pads it looks like they will be very long lasting. The wear on the rotor looks fine too. I did not measure my rotors so I can't say if they eat rotors or not but everything I've heard is that they are easy on rotors and the amount of pad wear I experienced is minimal. I think this is a good pad for the sort of track use many of the posters,myself included, are going to do.

As it relates to the post above about changing your own pads. It's EASY. Only tools you need are a jack, lug wrench, 7 mm Allen wrench with ratchet and a screwdriver. You don't even need a piston compressor, just pull on the caliper for about 30 seconds or so (before you start taking things apart) and you'll have enough clearance to pull the caliper off the caliper bracket (see the DYI section here). It does not take much time, took me about 2.5 hours for all four corners the very first time and I cleaned all my wheel wells while I was at it, experience will make this much faster each time. I think the spring clip on the rear is the toughest part of the whole job and it's probably just not having the right technique down yet.

That's my brief summary. I was not inclined to do the "swap the pad" thing for track events but now that I've experienced both I would highly recommend it. I suspect there are probably lots of other perfectly suitable pads, I was just lucky to run into some people who liked the Pagids and I got my set from someone who was selling his car and didn't need the pads. The only issue that's not clear is whether you really need the fronts and back pads or if just having front track pads would be sufficient. I'm guessing it might be okay, but perhaps others who just run the fronts can comment.
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