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View Poll Results: Do you believe in God?
Yes 37 41.57%
No 52 58.43%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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      05-01-2010, 08:52 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
I can understand why people don't believe in a god. But why go out of your way to belittle people who do believe? What does that accomplish?
It is a means of pushing back. The religious right demonizes non-believers at every opportunity, and then goes on to promote irrational beliefs that damage society (such as a 6,000 year old earth, opposition to basic science eduction in the schools and hysteria over any attempt to teach critical thinking skills).

On the other hand only the most radical non-believers have major issues with traditional mainstream religious practices.

If religion was treated as a private matter, and the hard right was not trying to jam their agenda down the throat of the rest of society, you would never hear from the non-believers.
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      05-01-2010, 11:26 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by 742 View Post
It is a means of pushing back. The religious right demonizes non-believers at every opportunity, and then goes on to promote irrational beliefs that damage society (such as a 6,000 year old earth, opposition to basic science eduction in the schools and hysteria over any attempt to teach critical thinking skills).

On the other hand only the most radical non-believers have major issues with traditional mainstream religious practices.

If religion was treated as a private matter, and the hard right was not trying to jam their agenda down the throat of the rest of society, you would never hear from the non-believers.
It's a means of pushing back against the religious right? Why, then, are ALL religious believers being mocked? This thread isn't just targeting the far right. If you guys want to malign the fundamentalist "bible pounders", no need to deride anyone who believes in "God". That's the same thing as condemning the entire Muslim faith because of the actions of the radicals. Why is it ok to do that to Christians, but not Muslims?
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      05-01-2010, 11:56 AM   #47
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"God bless America"

Only retarded people will say this.

Infallible.

People are so weak that they can't stand the FACT that *we don't know*.
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      05-01-2010, 01:42 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
People are so weak that they can't stand the FACT that *we don't know*.
Given the fact that we don't know, it's wrong then to have your own belief system, whether that be tied into an organized religion or not?
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      05-01-2010, 02:08 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
It's a means of pushing back against the religious right? Why, then, are ALL religious believers being mocked? This thread isn't just targeting the far right. If you guys want to malign the fundamentalist "bible pounders", no need to deride anyone who believes in "God". That's the same thing as condemning the entire Muslim faith because of the actions of the radicals. Why is it ok to do that to Christians, but not Muslims?
I see a discussion going on in this thread, which why it exists. Pointing out flaws in someone else's position in a debate is not "mocking".

Using emotionally charged language, ad hominem attacks, name calling -- that is a different thing.
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      05-01-2010, 02:19 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by 742 View Post
I see a discussion going on in this thread, which why it exists. Pointing out flaws in someone else's position in a debate is not "mocking".

Using emotionally charged language, ad hominem attacks, name calling -- that is a different thing.
I'm not talking about you in particular; I'm talking about the thread, and many threads like it in this subforum.

There are a lot of insults here thrown around at people for simply believing in "God". I hate having someone else's beliefs pushed on me, just like anyone else, but I'm not going to sit here and insult those who choose to believe in something which is questionable or not as to whether it can actually be disproven....

Like you, I believe a healthy debate can be positive for everyone, but there's a lot of poo flinging that goes on in these threads. It's just unnecessary IMO, and flies in the face of the ideals of this country to attack someone else based on what faith they choose to follow (or NOT follow).

Just for the record, I'm agnostic, but I strongly despise when people are maligned for what they choose to believe, when it can't be proven that what they believe is wrong anyway. If others' beliefs don't infringe on my rights, who am I to judge or deride them? Just because we don't necessarily believe that there is a "God" who will pass judgment on us in a traditional sense, does that mean we're free to attack others for what they believe (or what they don't believe)?

That being said, I'd like to clarify I am making a distinction between those who are discussing, and those who are just insulting pricks about the subject. There's a big difference.
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      05-01-2010, 05:39 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 742 View Post
I see a discussion going on in this thread, which why it exists. Pointing out flaws in someone else's position in a debate is not "mocking".

Using emotionally charged language, ad hominem attacks, name calling -- that is a different thing.
I think it could quite safely be called mocking when someone sarcastically equates anothers belief in a God to their own [disingenuous] belief in the force, claiming that Yoda taught them all about it while they were in the Dagobah system.
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      05-02-2010, 08:29 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
Given the fact that we don't know, it's wrong then to have your own belief system, whether that be tied into an organized religion or not?
Correct. The only reasonable stance is that we don't know; everything else so far is some kind of brainwashing at different levels and should not be encouraged.

The day that Churches, Synagogues, Mosques will be transformed as Temples of Unknown, then humanity will have made an huge progress. Will never happen of course, because the human is an immature beast in perpetual search of easy solutions.
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      05-02-2010, 01:23 PM   #53
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This should provide you guys with some good reading regarding Atheism.

http://www.atheists.org/Agnosticism%...is_for_Atheism
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      05-03-2010, 01:34 PM   #54
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I believe everyone has to believe in something but God is for the weak
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      05-03-2010, 01:51 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by ARMAN View Post
I believe everyone has to believe in something but God is for the weak
Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding........

You are correct...

Don't forget Santa Claus, Voldemort, Tooth Fairy, Boogey Man, Cookie Monster, and Pikachu.
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      05-03-2010, 02:45 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by ARMAN View Post
I believe everyone has to believe in something but God is for the weak
What's weak is not being able to refrain from insulting someone else's point of view simply because it doesn't coincide with yours. Show some maturity and some self discipline, particularly if you're going to accuse others of being weak.
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      05-03-2010, 03:05 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by ARMAN View Post
I believe everyone has to believe in something but God is for the weak
Why would believing in God be for the weak? IMO, it's better than the widespread apathetic indifference that seems to be all too common these days.

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Originally Posted by radix View Post
What's weak is not being able to refrain from insulting someone else's point of view simply because it doesn't coincide with yours. Show some maturity and some self discipline, particularly if you're going to accuse others of being weak.
Amen. I don't get what's with the offensive against those who are part of a traditional organized religion... Sure, every one dislikes, and is annoyed by, the radicals, but there are radicals of every nature, to include non-theists. Why do we care what rule set others live by, if it's positive in nature and unobtrusive upon the rights of others? Is this another "I'm going to be offended about something because that's what I do" thread? After you've killed off all the theists, who's next? Like I've said before, seems Americans these days aren't happy unless they're hating or bitching about something.
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      05-05-2010, 10:30 AM   #58
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The thread is wrong: The more educated you are the more likely you believe in God.

CHICAGO (AP) - A survey examining religion in medicine found that most U.S. doctors believe in God and an afterlife - a surprising degree of spirituality in a scientific field, researchers say.

In the survey of 1,044 doctors nationwide from a variety of specialties, 76 percent said they believe in God, 59 percent said they believe in some sort of afterlife and 55 percent said their religious beliefs influence how they practice medicine.

It is most important that Doctors lead the way. Their are many who go to medical school as non believer and graduate as believers. This is because a study of the human body leads people to believe that the human body could only have been created by design and not happen chance. The idea that the cell gets more complicated as it gets bigger is shot all to hell, even the smallest of cells are super specialized and couldn't have happened by mutation over time. They were designed that way to do a job. And on top of that when they go to the real world they are exposed to medical miracles everywhere they practice that the science they just studied taught them was impossible and they become believers. Your just wrong people with high IQ's are more likely to believe in God. The idea that high IQ people don't believe in God is an urban myth put out by people whom think they have high IQ's to make themselves feel better about their short comings.

HS

HS
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      05-05-2010, 12:19 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by HoustonScott View Post
The thread is wrong: The more educated you are the more likely you believe in God.

CHICAGO (AP) - A survey examining religion in medicine found that most U.S. doctors believe in God and an afterlife - a surprising degree of spirituality in a scientific field, researchers say.

In the survey of 1,044 doctors nationwide from a variety of specialties, 76 percent said they believe in God, 59 percent said they believe in some sort of afterlife and 55 percent said their religious beliefs influence how they practice medicine.

It is most important that Doctors lead the way. Their are many who go to medical school as non believer and graduate as believers. This is because a study of the human body leads people to believe that the human body could only have been created by design and not happen chance. The idea that the cell gets more complicated as it gets bigger is shot all to hell, even the smallest of cells are super specialized and couldn't have happened by mutation over time. They were designed that way to do a job. And on top of that when they go to the real world they are exposed to medical miracles everywhere they practice that the science they just studied taught them was impossible and they become believers. Your just wrong people with high IQ's are more likely to believe in God. The idea that high IQ people don't believe in God is an urban myth put out by people whom think they have high IQ's to make themselves feel better about their short comings.

HS

HS
92% of Americans believe in God, so by your numbers Medical Doctors are much less likely to be religious than the general population.

If anything you have given support to the proposition that you are trying to discredit. In fact it would appear that 41% of Doctors do not believe in an afterlife, which is a basic requirement in order to be Christian.

So the article could be re-written with a lead in such as "Almost half of all Medical Doctors do not believe in the basic tenets of Christianity. Doctors are also three times more likely to be non-believers than the general public..."

Last edited by 742; 05-05-2010 at 01:05 PM. Reason: added text
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      05-14-2010, 12:20 PM   #60
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I personally dont believe in anything but science. I was wondering how many here were atheist too
Just to clarify, you don't have to BELIEVE in science. It is verifiable and self-correcting via evidence. The only assumption that need be "believed" is that the universe works via rules, which can be discovered by observing the universe. There's a great article on this on Bad Astronomy

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Is Science Faith-Based?

No.

Oh, you want details? OK then.

If you read any antiscience screeds, at some point or another most will claim that science is based on faith just as much as religion is. For example, the horrific Answers in Genesis website has this to say about science:

Much of the problem stems from the different starting points of our divergence with Darwinists. Everyone, scientist or not, must start their quests for knowledge with some unprovable axiom—some a priori belief on which they sort through experience and deduce other truths. This starting point, whatever it is, can only be accepted by faith; eventually, in each belief system, there must be some unprovable, presupposed foundation for reasoning (since an infinite regression is impossible).

This is completely wrong. It shows (unsurprisingly) an utter misunderstanding of how science works. Science is not faith-based, and here’s why.

The scientific method makes one assumption, and one assumption only: the Universe obeys a set of rules. That’s it. There is one corollary, and that is that if the Universe follows these rules, then those rules can be deduced by observing the way Universe behaves. This follows naturally; if it obeys the rules, then the rules must be revealed by that behavior.

A simple example: we see objects going around the Sun. The motion appears to follow some rules: the orbits are conic sections (ellipses, circles, parabolas, hyperbolas), the objects move faster when they are closer to the Sun, if they move too quickly they can escape forever, and so on.

From these observations we can apply mathematical equations to describe those motions, and then use that math to predict where a given object will be at some future date. Guess what? It works. It works so well that we can shoot probes at objects billions of kilometers away and still nail the target to phenomenal accuracy. This supports our conclusion that the math is correct. This in turn strongly implies that the Universe is following its own rules, and that we can figure them out.

Now, of course that is a very simple example, and is not meant to be complete, but it gives you an idea of how this works. Now think on this: the computer you are reading this on is entirely due to science. The circuits are the end result of decades, centuries of exploration in how electricity works and how quantum particles behave. The monitor is a triumph of scientific engineering, whether it’s a CRT or an LCD flat panel. The mouse might use an LED, or a simple ball-and-wheel. The keyboard uses springs, the wireless uses radio technology, the speakers use electromagnetism.*

Look around. Cars, airplanes, buildings. iPods, books, clothing. Agriculture, plumbing, waste disposal. Light bulbs, vacuum cleaners, ovens. These are all the products of scientific research. If your TV breaks, you can pray that it’ll spontaneously start working again, but my money would be on someone who has learned how to actually fix it based on scientific and engineering principles.

All the knowledge we have accumulated over the millennia comes together in a harmonious symphony of science. We’re not guessing here: this stuff was designed using previous knowledge developed in a scientific manner over centuries. And it works. All of this goes to support our underlying assumption that the Universe obeys rules that we can deduce.

Are there holes in this knowledge? Of course. Science doesn’t have all the answers. But science has a tool, a power that its detractors never seem to understand.

Science is not simply a database of knowledge. It’s a method, a way of finding this knowledge. Observe, hypothesize, predict, observe, revise. Science is provisional; it’s always open to improvement. Science is even subject to itself. If the method itself didn’t work, we’d see it. Our computers wouldn’t work (OK, bad example), our space probes wouldn’t get off the ground, our electronics wouldn’t work, our medicine wouldn’t work. Yet, all these things do in fact function, spectacularly well. Science is a check on itself, which is why it is such an astonishingly powerful way of understanding reality.

And that right there is where science and religion part ways. Science is not based on faith. Science is based on evidence. We have evidence it works, vast amounts of it, billions of individual pieces that fit together into a tapestry of reality. That is the critical difference. Faith, as it is interpreted by most religions, is not evidence-based, and is generally held tightly even despite evidence against it. In many cases, faith is even reinforced when evidence is found contrary to it.

To say that we have to take science on faith is such a gross misunderstanding of how science works that it can only be uttered by someone who is wholly ignorant of how reality works.

The next time someone tries to tell you that science is just as faith-based as religion, or that evolution is a religion, point them here. Perhaps the evidence of science may sway them. Perhaps not; it’s difficult to reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. But the next time they get on a computer, maybe they’ll take a slightly more critical look at it, and wonder if its workings are a miracle, or the results of brilliant minds over many generations toiling away at the scientific method.

Last edited by carve; 05-14-2010 at 12:49 PM.
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      05-14-2010, 12:25 PM   #61
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There are many scientists who acknowledge that at this point it is impossible to rule out the existence of a "god."

I'm simply agnostic
Of course it's impossible to rule out- things that don't exist don't leave evidence of their non-existence. That doesn't mean you should take them credibly. Nobody, except for people who think they've spoken directly to God, have any kind of evidence at all; the question is whether you believe anyway. That's what faith is- believing in something without any evidence. If you don't, you're "Without gods"- or in greek, "A Theos"- atheist.
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      05-14-2010, 12:37 PM   #62
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Some people follow a belief system with ten commandments.
There are actually 17 commandments. In Exodus, when Moses destroyed the original tablets in his hissy fit, God made replacement tablets, and all but three of the commandments were different. The following are the "final draft" 10 commandments- the ones carried around in the Ark of the Covenant.

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Second Tables of Stone
(Exodus 34, "the words that were on the first")



1. Thou shalt worship no other god (For the Lord is a jealous god).



2. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.



3. The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.


4. All the first-born are mine.


5. Six days shalt thou work, but on the seventh thou shalt rest.


6. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.


7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread.


8. The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning.


9. The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.


10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.
Or, to put it in an entertaining video format...
[u2b]<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QjhFlI6-ZBI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QjhFlI6-ZBI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/u2b]


Don't even get me started on "What the (&^%& do we know". Utter rubbish, but they lead in with enough real science to confuse people on where the real science ends and the pseudo-science begins. Movie was produced by "Ramtha school of enlightenment", run by a Tacoma housewife who channels the spirt of an ancient warrior from the city of Atlantis.

Last edited by carve; 05-14-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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      05-14-2010, 02:38 PM   #63
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Here's a good video debunking "What the @*^^%$^%"

[u2b]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rlPiXNlhKFo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rlPiXNlhKFo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/u2b]
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      05-14-2010, 03:40 PM   #64
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If there isn't some sort of higher power, then where did all this shit come from to begin with (I'm talking about prior to the big bang)?
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      05-14-2010, 03:46 PM   #65
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According to Big Bang it started with a dot.

There's no before that. It started with that. Anything before that we consider it undefined.
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      05-14-2010, 03:46 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Correct. The only reasonable stance is that we don't know; everything else so far is some kind of brainwashing at different levels and should not be encouraged.

The day that Churches, Synagogues, Mosques will be transformed as Temples of Unknown, then humanity will have made an huge progress. Will never happen of course, because the human is an immature beast in perpetual search of easy solutions.
by far the most intelligent comment on this thread
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