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      04-26-2010, 01:51 PM   #1
1BMW4fun
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New F1 engine plan

With the green initiative on the rise, F1 is planning to drop its current V8 power plant in favor of a 1.5 litre 4 cylinder engine equipped with a twin-turbo and direct injection and possibly with KERS. Going to missed the V10 and V8 sound.

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/15389.html
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      04-26-2010, 02:24 PM   #2
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I find it very interesting. Does anybody think BMW will go back to F1? They had succus in the times of turboed F1's. Or will BMW Motorsport atleast build good 1.5l I4 Turbo engines and sell them to others just to get money and keep there Best.Motoring.W Fame?
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      04-26-2010, 02:48 PM   #3
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Mixed feeling....one is good for the image of the sport...but also killing the sport in someways...might as well take the engine from 320i and put it on the F1 chassis....

but as long as the engines have good output and high revving sound.....shouldn't be too bad....but KERS??? i still hate it.....
look what it did to the sport last year??? ended up only Ferrari and McLaren are using....and its been use more of a defending tool than an attacking one....
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      04-26-2010, 03:20 PM   #4
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I agree. Besides why would they need kers when those engines would likely make well over 1000HP?

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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Mixed feeling....one is good for the image of the sport...but also killing the sport in someways...might as well take the engine from 320i and put it on the F1 chassis....

but as long as the engines have good output and high revving sound.....shouldn't be too bad....but KERS??? i still hate it.....
look what it did to the sport last year??? ended up only Ferrari and McLaren are using....and its been use more of a defending tool than an attacking one....
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      04-26-2010, 04:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by JJM335 View Post
I agree. Besides why would they need kers when those engines would likely make well over 1000HP?
to promote Hybrids...
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      04-26-2010, 05:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJM335 View Post
I agree. Besides why would they need kers when those engines would likely make well over 1000HP?
Maybe to counteract the most minute of turbo lag. The lag you and I can't feel would be very noticeable when travelling at the speeds they do when exiting corners.
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      04-26-2010, 05:59 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92 View Post
Maybe to counteract the most minute of turbo lag. The lag you and I can't feel would be very noticeable when travelling at the speeds they do when exiting corners.
If BMW is back to F1....I just hope they won't have a HPFP fail....
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      04-26-2010, 10:18 PM   #8
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From what I've been reading regarding KERS they are talks with the teams to reintroduce it with certain conditions. They are debating the idea of having a standard system so that the teams themselves do not have to develop the technology. Also, they are talking about doubling the previous maximum power burst it would deliver.

What they ran last year was a very limited and almost useless system that didnt do too much, but if they do actually reintroduce it, it should be much more interesting.
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      04-26-2010, 11:39 PM   #9
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IMO...only six seconds of KERS boost per lap was ridiculous....
maybe they can up that available boost timeing to 15 seconds or something like that....

I wonder what kind of system they will use??? McLaren ones or Ferrari??? Or even the Williams one that they still testing???
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      04-26-2010, 11:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Mixed feeling....one is good for the image of the sport...but also killing the sport in someways...might as well take the engine from 320i and put it on the F1 chassis....
Been there, done that...

The 1500 HP BMW turbo engine that won the World Driving championship in 1983 for Brabham was built on a production engine block taken out of a BMW E21 3-series. The builders actually chose used engine blocks because day-to-day usage relieved the stress arising from the casting process that would have been been a reliability risk if they used brand-new engine blocks.
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      04-26-2010, 11:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BMW4fun View Post
With the green initiative on the rise, F1 is planning to drop its current V8 power plant in favor of a 1.5 litre 4 cylinder engine equipped with a twin-turbo and direct injection and possibly with KERS. Going to missed the V10 and V8 sound.

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/15389.html
Are they serious? This is going to be incredibly expensive... I thought F1 was all about cost cutting.
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      04-27-2010, 04:01 PM   #12
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Why is everyone so f-cking obsessed with pollution. F1 cars emit 0.00000001% of the worlds automotive pollution, people keep using it as a catch phrase to try and sway any party to do anything.

If they want to change the engines fine, but it has nothing to do with pollution.

If you fly from Europe to Japan in a 747, it uses more fuel than an entire F1 season.

Pollution my ass.
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      04-27-2010, 04:17 PM   #13
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To be honest I am very interested in this change, the turbo F1 cars were some of my favorite, kinda like the Group B rally back in the 80s. As long as they make the same or more power I don't see what is wrong with this, should give us some advancements in turbo technology and boost control, and lead to more reliable HPFPs.
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      04-27-2010, 04:54 PM   #14
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Initial reaction is this sounds like a horrible idea. It seems that F1 decides to change rules every year to make things more interesting. I suppose time will tell.
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      04-27-2010, 06:31 PM   #15
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it's also because over a few years the cars tend to get dangerously fast. imagine dropping all ruled restrictions now for seasons (brakes, tyres, aero, engine durability) etc. they would go test and the drivers would kill themselves.

also, after a few years of stability, the innovations get into a slump and it's time to throw in a new challenge for science's sake
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      04-27-2010, 06:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisemyrent View Post
it's also because over a few years the cars tend to get dangerously fast. imagine dropping all ruled restrictions now for seasons (brakes, tyres, aero, engine durability) etc. they would go test and the drivers would kill themselves.

also, after a few years of stability, the innovations get into a slump and it's time to throw in a new challenge for science's sake
well...with all the engine freeze, grooved tires, aero change, and rev limit rules.....the cars arn't getting too much slower...the scientists are still sqeezing the little power out if they can....

the overall pace of major teams arn't too much slower than they were in early 2000.....
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      04-27-2010, 07:11 PM   #17
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I think going back to turbo 4 bangers might be interesting. A clip of the original BMW F1 turbo motor on the test stand. Look at the size of the turbo. No wonder they put out 1000+ hp from a 1.5L.

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      04-27-2010, 07:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raisemyrent View Post
it's also because over a few years the cars tend to get dangerously fast. imagine dropping all ruled restrictions now for seasons (brakes, tyres, aero, engine durability) etc. they would go test and the drivers would kill themselves.

also, after a few years of stability, the innovations get into a slump and it's time to throw in a new challenge for science's sake
They have only been on the V8 not too long now.
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      04-27-2010, 09:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BMW4fun View Post
They have only been on the V8 not too long now.
I think is around 2006-2007? That the FIA standardize the size of the engine to be 2.4L V8 with rev limit to 19k originally...then down to 18k last two seasons...and i think 17k this year???
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      04-27-2010, 10:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
Been there, done that...

The 1500 HP BMW turbo engine that won the World Driving championship in 1983 for Brabham was built on a production engine block taken out of a BMW E21 3-series. The builders actually chose used engine blocks because day-to-day usage relieved the stress arising from the casting process that would have been been a reliability risk if they used brand-new engine blocks.
This has proven to be a rumor. From Racecar Engineering, Aug. 2009:

"Ulrich Baretzky of Audi Motorsport worked on BMW's Formula 1 engines in the early 1980s and rolls his eyes at the suggestion: 'We kept being asked this,' he recalls, 'and it wasn't true. But Paul Rosche became curious, so we tried it.' They built up an engine around an old road car block and tested it on the dyno to see what would happen. 'it didn't even get warm before it blew up,' recalls Baretzky." So, the M12/3 did start with a BMW production block, however; just not a used one.

Coincidentally, the same issue discussed the possibility of a Global Race Engine; a 1.6 I4 turbo...

Last edited by josephr25; 04-27-2010 at 10:51 PM.
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      04-28-2010, 07:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
I think is around 2006-2007? That the FIA standardize the size of the engine to be 2.4L V8 with rev limit to 19k originally...then down to 18k last two seasons...and i think 17k this year???
Yeah it was 2006. 2005 was the last year with V10s. But I'm pretty sure the original rev limit was 20000 and has moved down 1000/year.
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      04-28-2010, 11:31 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampfer View Post
This has proven to be a rumor. From Racecar Engineering, Aug. 2009:

Coincidentally, the same issue discussed the possibility of a Global Race Engine; a 1.6 I4 turbo...
LOL. I read that too! Mechanical engineering FTW!

I think V8's are the minimum. Anything below that has negative torque between power strokes... Why not just turbo the current V8? Keeping it the same power while reducing the rev limiter? Surely that could save some fuel and reduce emissions...
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