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      05-17-2010, 08:52 PM   #89
H Bomb
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if the company knows what there doing then it can be raised safely. i have had there tunes on my past 3 M cars and never a problem and that is over 100k miles of driving

i also never had one problem at any BMW dealer with it and they all knew i had the Dinan software in there and on this current one and they still warrantied my car for anything it needed

but yes i agree it is more universal to work on any M3 versus a custom tune etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixja View Post
Yes and No.

I think the Dinan tune doesn't make as much power or at least claim to make as much power because it is a universal tune - i.e. for 91 Octane + - so it won't be tuned as aggressively as an alternative tune that is tuned for a minimum 93 Octane.

One could argue that raising the rev limit to 8600rpm is potentially more dangerous than any other tuning change that could be made - it certainly raises the possibility of the tune being detected (most conservative folk probably wouldn't want that).
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      05-17-2010, 09:22 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meff View Post
Swamp, dude!! - you are relentless !!
Ditto.

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Originally Posted by Meff View Post
The "improvement" I was referring to is relative to the perception of the changes by the driver - you cannot measure that.

Here is the complete quote ; "The mod may not be meant to improve on specific specs - it may be meant to improve the "feel" of the car for a specific driver. This improvement cannot be measured for comparative gains as it is a very subjective thing, yet still a no less important way for an individual car owner to assess value of a mod"
Despite a more complete quote your statement is still wrong. What you seem to keep dismissing is that there will be a nearly direct correlation between what the driver feels and the numerical gains in peak acceleration on a instrumented test of the modification. More acceleration = more feel = more numerical gains. I don't know how this escapes you. Again if you want to talk about a drivers perception in some other dimension of perception you haven't made that clear. The "feel" and drivability folks report on in regards to FD mods is nothing more than peak and or average in gear acceleration.

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Originally Posted by Meff View Post
You are forgetting the original post here - The OP is happy with the mod and his improved drivability and that is the acid test of it's success to him and the others chiming in. I am just trying to convey to you that in addition to your approach, there are other intangible ways to evaluate any modification. I know you have done extensive work on this particular mod, so you are well invested in it's pros and cons and you bring an invaluable service to the membership of this forum with your input. I am not attempting to dismiss your analysis or even challenge it, I simply want to make the point that there are other ways to assess these things as individuals.
Improved drivability can be quantified just like most other aspects of vehicle performance. If you look back through my posts you will realize I concurred and thanked one of the prior posters who made the point about the enjoyment of mods.

I'm not certainly not arguing that modifications must be evaluated according to some rigid predefined (or simply my favorite or your favorite) metric(s).

This debate has nothing to do with my "investment" in this topic. You made a blantantly false statement and I called you on it.

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Originally Posted by Meff View Post
What would you say to mfeltiii and his example of his cat back exhaust? Does it not qualify as a mod that can be judged because it is something that can't be measured ? He enjoys the sound and that changes his perception of his car and increases his enjoyment - successful mod in my books. What about a rear diffuser or carbon trim? You can't measure these either, but the driver will enjoy his car more as a result.
Obviously there are differences between cosmetics and performance modifications. However, you probably don't realize that most OEMs and most of their largest exhaust suppliers spend considerable cost, time and engineering in the field of sound quality. Here there are a variety of metrics used to characterize the quality of exhaust sounds. Sure there is plenty that is based on personal opinion but work is done in that area as well, statistically. A FD mod is NEVER proposed as a cosmetic mod. They are always touted as improving performance. So many folks have incorrect beliefs about what FD mods actually do and this is typically confounded by their amazine first person experiences of new earth shattering levels of performance. It is not until you ask precise questions about which metrics are improved and which are made worse that you can have an intelligent discussion about the concept of "there is no free lunch" with FD mods and "power to weight is what ultimately matters".

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Originally Posted by Meff View Post
I'm not going to debate the meaning of the word "feel" - no. You can feel improved acceleration, braking, handling yes. You can measure them as well, but the f*#king smile they bring to your face can't be. Call it emotion, call it improved feel, hell call it euphoria - don't care. Unless you have a happiness meter I'm unaware of.... it is an intangible that cannot be quantified, but can certainly be used to assess the validity of a modification.
I do have a happiness meter in fact. Think carefully about this Gedanken. Let me make this as clear as possible. Two identical M3s one with a FD mod one without. For the sake of argument their acceleration performance before the FD mod is identical. Now lets imagine not just one FD modded car with one FD value but a whole series of them with very small increases in the FD value. If you took a bunch of folks as observers/testers and tested in gear acceleration results you would find some typical threshold of FD ratio change below which you would get mixed reports about whether or not the acceleration was improved. Similarly above a certain threshold the higher the ratio the more improvement would be reported. For the sake of simplicity I am assuming there are no traction issues in the gear chosen across the entire range of FD values. The graph of "feel" vs. FD ration would not be a line due to the accuracy of folks ability to perceive acceleration absolutely acurately. Of course there would also be other statistical noise. However, the scatter would show very strong linear regression. The larger the value of the new FD the more in gear acceleration, the more human perception of accelearation and the more happiness that would be reported. Call it enjoyment or the human perception of the acceleration differences between stock and modded. Either way it can be measured, quantified and tested, tested with an accelerometer or with a human, it is basically the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Meff View Post
You do reference here that it provides a "false illusion" That is in fact a change in a driver's perception and therefore supports my point. Whether it's real or perceived, it does not matter if the driver likes the change to the car.
That is precisely what makes this mod so interesting. It feels better but probably is not really better for many of the things folks claim they care about. Probably 90%+ of folks not educated about this mod would feel and report that most (or maybe even all) acceleration metrics are significantly improved even when in reality they are not. This is because in gear results feel better and are better but shifts come quicker and overall results across mutliple gears probably are not. All of this adds up to producing false beliefs in most people about the efficacy of this mod (the same thing happens with other mods). Of course not to mention ego and rationalization that goes on with most mods, cosmetic or performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meff View Post
The fact that you want emotion taken out of the equation is what I feel is wrong with your argument. I am not suggesting that your analysis be taken out of the equation, in fact I feel it is very necessary, I am simply stating that both are valid ways to assess any modification.
I addressed this above. Feel is not emotion, feel can almost always be measured when it comes to automotive performance. Is a FD a cosmetic mod or a performance mod. Please answer that question directly. Heck emotion can even be measured these days with fMRI (functional MRI).

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Originally Posted by Meff View Post
I really don't want to get in to a battle of attrition with you Swamp - by the look of your almost 7000 posts, I will lose I'm sure. Just trying to get my point across and am having fun debating you. I am posting here with all due respect to what you bring to the forum, but feel strongly about my position.

Tag, you're it.
Great, I appreciate the senitment. Despite my large post count I'm not about winning arguments by attrition.
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      05-17-2010, 09:44 PM   #91
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anytime bro and enjoy your new ride congrats. i would drive it for awhile stock then decide what mods you want to do and think you would enjoy the most and do them one at a time as well so you can see what each one did for the car. i did mine one at a time and drove at least 1k miles with the car bf adding another so i could apprec each one

also to your other comment. Dinan does prob the most R&D of any company bf releasing one of there products to the public. i never dyno my car just bc i really didn't feel the need and after seeing how the numbers can be so far off from another and how it always turns sour of a thread i really could care less. i just did each mod one at a time and i will say i felt an improvement of each one. is it exactly the hp and tq numbers dinan claims well i don't know for sure. but i do know each one made me happy and that is all that matters to me. the one that was the biggest wow factor in terms of power added and sound enjoyment was the midpipe hands down. if i had to do it over and only pick one it would be the midpipe combo. the sound is just amazing. and the power increase was awesome. like i drove away in a new car. i have yet to pull in somewhere and someone not say something how good the car sounds so i know its not just me. and at the end of the day no drone and i can hear myself inside the car which is cool

but like i said enjoy the car stock for awhile as it is an awesome machine just stock as it is.

the next thing i am doing is the Dinan susp while it is 20% off. i have read very good things on it and i can get get better performance without having to buy a whole susp package or have the car slammed to the ground. the 1/2 inch drop is perfect for my taste

best of luck with the new ride, you will love it i am sure no matter DCT or 6sp

H


Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish View Post
I completely agree. And calling someone's point of view "rubbish" isn't very nice..... we can all have our own opinions....

It is all about feel for me personally. BUT, before I buy, I need to be convinced. I would like to see objective metrics on the mods by the vendors that sell the mods. ActiveWerks does a good job of this. Like a Dyno graph AND an independant confirmation of improvement by a VBOX 0-60 before and after a tune, or the pulleys, or air box.... and diff.... If they actually work and prove it, they will sell lots more you would think.

I think both points of view are valid - 1) the metrics to prove that the risk of modding the car (risk to warranty) is worth the gain in performance. and 2) that the car feels faster, or pulls more, or responds quicker.

IE: the Dinan air filter - The High Flow Intake produces a maximum gain of 8 horsepower and 5 lb-ft torque @ 8200 rpm - Well does it? Dyno by Dinan please..... and lets check the 0-60 time before and after - does it make any difference for $1350 installed? OR can I just by the $70 Active Autowerks air filter and get the same result.

Now the feel part - is the throttle response better, does it sound better...

The 4.10 gears are a better feel from members here, and we do see videos of E46 M3 cars with 4.10 beating stock geared cars....


We should be able to see an improved torque curve for sure. I would love to see the 0-60 times before and after.... or a race of a E9X with stock gears to a 4.10 car - that would put this issue to bed.

(H Bomb and everyone - thanks for all your comments on my posts I really appreciate them !! I am soooo pumped to be getting my M).
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      05-18-2010, 11:27 PM   #92
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Ok - this is my last shot at this Swamp...

First off, your last response to me forced me to utilize both Google and Wikipedia to sort through it all - too much work Swamp seriously, and thought experiments, really ?

You also threw in a Pop Quiz -
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Is a FD a cosmetic mod or a performance mod. Please answer that question directly.
The answer to your question is - neither. It is a modification plain and simple and can be utilized for whatever changes a driver wants to employ with their car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post

That is precisely what makes this mod so interesting. It feels better but probably is not really better for many of the things folks claim they care about. Probably 90%+ of folks not educated about this mod would feel and report that most (or maybe even all) acceleration metrics are significantly improved even when in reality they are not. This is because in gear results feel better and are better but shifts come quicker and overall results across mutliple gears probably are not. All of this adds up to producing false beliefs in most people about the efficacy of this mod (the same thing happens with other mods). Of course not to mention ego and rationalization that goes on with most mods, cosmetic or performance.
I think your above statement gives me an opportunity to articulate the point I've been desperately trying to make.

In your above quote, you indicate that the funny thing about this mod is that it can fool, or generate "false beliefs" in people and cause them to think that it (FD mod) has overall performance gains because they feel improvements. The driver can be fooled by what they feel and can then go on to judge the mod a success based on this feeling or "false belief". This shows that the driver can in fact make a decision on the success of the modification based on "feel", false or otherwise that cannot be supported by the measured data.

There are members that swear by this mod because it changes the rpm in each gear better to their liking, and those in gear changes can be measured. But there are other members that feel overall faster with the mod, or provide other reasons they like it that can't be supported by the measured data. You can point out that they're wrong to feel the way they feel, but you're not going to change the way the feel, and that has been proven with this mod, time and time again.

Flawed human perception can in some cases trump the measured data, but that's ok because the "decider" (to use a Bushism) otherwise known as the driver, is the only person it matters to.

So you're correct in all of your analysis, but being right in this case does not change the fact the some will love this mod for reasons that can't be supported by measured data - and that's ok

That is the point I've been trying to make.

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      05-19-2010, 12:47 AM   #93
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What if I told you there was a virtual reality "modification" I could sell you for the m3 that by interacting with your brain waves could 100% fool all of your senses into believing you were actually driving an f430 whenever you drove your car. It replicated the sight, sound, feel, prestige and handling to a T. This modification, of course, in no way changed any measurable metric of the m3.

Think I could sell you one???
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      05-20-2010, 04:27 AM   #94
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Well, we keep drifting without being able to reach closure on specific points of disagreement. Unfortunately I still call many of your prior statments completely incorrect. Your opening one was one of the key one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meff View Post
The mod may not be meant to improve on specific specs - it may be meant to improve the "feel" of the car for a specific driver.
I think I have shown that the mod is meant to (and is observed to) improve primarily one thing: in gear peak and average acceleration and this is precisely what people loosely call "feel" or "driveability". Furthermore the feelings/perceptions of the improvement of these things can be correlated perfectly with actual measurements.

Anyway, without returning to all prior points I'll continue...

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Originally Posted by Meff View Post
First off, your last response to me forced me to utilize both Google and Wikipedia to sort through it all - too much work Swamp seriously, and thought experiments, really ?
Nothing wrong with a simple thought experiment. They can really help illustrate the crux of an idea.

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Originally Posted by Meff View Post
You also threw in a Pop Quiz - The answer to your question is - neither. It is a modification plain and simple and can be utilized for whatever changes a driver wants to employ with their car.
I absolutely disagree. You are refusing to answer a simple question because it loosely supports your case. Without reading this thread, what answer do you think 99% of every day (non scientific) car folks, who know a bit about modding, would give to my question? Whether it be overall performance, in gear performance or some other metric, a FD mod is generally desired for and believed to improve one or more aspects of performance. Who the hell would pay $3-4k for a mod that made no improvements in performance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meff View Post
In your above quote, you indicate that the funny thing about this mod is that it can fool, or generate "false beliefs" in people and cause them to think that it (FD mod) has overall performance gains because they feel improvements. The driver can be fooled by what they feel and can then go on to judge the mod a success based on this feeling or "false belief". This shows that the driver can in fact make a decision on the success of the modification based on "feel", false or otherwise that cannot be supported by the measured data.
Let's be a bit more precise.

In gear testing: Feel will be improved, measurement will show improvement. All is simple and consistent.

Testing across multiple gears: Feel may or may not be improved, if improved it is likely of a much less significant intensity as compared to the drivers seat of the pants evaluation of the in gear tests. Again the effect here is simply that each gear is gone through faster but the speed at the shift points in each gear is at lower speed. In this particular case, this car with its OEM FD ratio as compared to most of the aftermarket choices, some results will be a bit better, some will be about the same and some will be worse. The same won't necessarily be the case for ALL cars with all OEM FD ratios. The one in the M3 is simply fairly well optimized for a wide range of performance metrics.

The problem is indeed that the bulk of the evidence from the in gear testing combined with a possible smaller "feel" of improvement on the multi-gear case can falsely convince someone that the mod drastically improves both.

Either way you can measure exactly what is happening. It is just that in one case perception and measurement might be at odds. It wouldn't be the first case of this in human perception, we're fooled all the time.

I would be highly surprised if folks who have done this mod on this car would cite the across gear testing as the dominant factor in their subjective improvement to the "feel" of the car. I'm sure none of them have bothered to read this lengthy debate but if any are still here please chime in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meff View Post
There are members that swear by this mod because it changes the rpm in each gear better to their liking, and those in gear changes can be measured. But there are other members that feel overall faster with the mod, or provide other reasons they like it that can't be supported by the measured data. You can point out that they're wrong to feel the way they feel, but you're not going to change the way the feel, and that has been proven with this mod, time and time again.
I've never said anyone is wrong to feel the way they feel. I've only carefully pointed out that such mods may feel like they offer "everything" but most likely will help one thing and hurt or simply not help another. I'd be willing to bet myself and other "skeptical modders" who have participated in this thread have in fact opened up folks minds about such a mod. Getting more in touch with your ability to accurately perceive what your car is really doing rather than what a quick gut "feeling" tells you is key to becoming someone who can really tune their car to get better performance and better feel. This is the essence of the difference between many great drivers and a great test/development engineer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meff View Post
Flawed human perception can in some cases trump the measured data, but that's ok because the "decider" (to use a Bushism) otherwise known as the driver, is the only person it matters to.
No disagreement there. But this is why it is important to use basic science to better understand whether or not you are wasting your money. It is always all about what each person wants and I've never told folks a FD mod doesn't "feel" better for in gear "punch" or overall in gear results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meff View Post
So you're correct in all of your analysis, but being right in this case does not change the fact the some will love this mod for reasons that can't be supported by measured data - and that's ok
Again my strong suspicion is that most love this mod simply for the in gear results. That effect is just so much more noticeable. So folks can and do like it for valid reasons - feel and measurable results.

It is just overwhelmingly important to keep this idiom in mind with FD mods: There is no such thing as a free lunch. Such a mod does not add power nor remove weight so in many cases all you get is improvement under some isolated circumstances and negative effects in others. One last loosely related comment: Using a FD mod to tune a car for a certain track is a very valid use of such a mod.
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      05-20-2010, 04:32 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfeltiii View Post
What if I told you there was a virtual reality "modification" I could sell you for the m3 that by interacting with your brain waves could 100% fool all of your senses into believing you were actually driving an f430 whenever you drove your car. It replicated the sight, sound, feel, prestige and handling to a T. This modification, of course, in no way changed any measurable metric of the m3.

Think I could sell you one???
Very interesting question. I think you could sell quite a lot of them. However, I think you would find some common threads among the personalities, habits, interests and desires of those who would buy and other common but contradictory threads among these characteristics of those who wouldn't buy.
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      06-01-2010, 07:06 AM   #96
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So which is faster from 0-100 km/h, 0-200 km/h and 1/4 mile? Stock or 4,10 FD?
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      06-12-2010, 03:57 PM   #97
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is there or not an increase in torque on these mods?
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      06-12-2010, 04:22 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
is there or not an increase in torque on these mods?
According to Dinan's website there is an increase in torque (295 X 6.5% = 314), but given the hazing in this thread, I am scared to post this... I would IMAGINE that would be across the entire rev range - but I would want to see a dyno chart on it.

4.10 Limited Slip Differential - Manual
Dinan lowers the stock 3.85 final drive ratio to a 4.10, taking full advantage of torque multiplication for a substantial 6.5% increase in torque delivered to the road. The improved acceleration comes with only a minor increase in engine speeds at cruise and no effective reduction in top speed potential. The Dinan 4.10 Limited Slip Differential delivers what is perhaps the greatest bang for the buck in terms of improved and more immediate acceleration from the M3.
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      06-12-2010, 05:35 PM   #99
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exactly what i read, and am not really understanding this thread then. seem torque improvement is a "real" improvement not imagined and that with the dct shift speed nothing will really be lost there just top end and since i dont live around any salt flats dont really care. guess i just dont understand the arguments in here...
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      06-12-2010, 06:08 PM   #100
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To the above two posts:

I'll try to offer some further explanation.

You can either try to understand this deep or technically or just on the surface. Sure a FD multiplies torque to the rear wheels. It does it with a constant percentage and across the speed/rpm range. OK more torque to the wheels does matter. It is a key ingredient of acceleration and performance but it obviously is not the entire ingredient list. If a FD mod gave you more torque at the wheels with ABSOLUTELY no drawbacks:

1. It would be essentially magic, making any and all cars faster.
2. All OEMs would be using new/revised FD ratios
3. There would be some sort of regression to the absurd with infinite FD ratios. And if traction was not an issue you would get ever increasing acceleration.

The last point is key, you can't simply keep bumping and bumping the ratio. And just thinking very "on the surface" - there is no such thing as a free lunch. A transmission mod does affect your engine itself and obviously does not give you more hp. hp is THE most important factor (well hp to the wheels per weight, but whatever, that is just a detail).

How long you can hold each gear is the other absolutely critical ingredient of the performance equation. You do notice how much harder your call pulls in 1st compared to 2nd and in 2nd compared to 3rd, etc.? How the FD hurts you is that you get less time in each gear. Get it?

Now again if you only consider in gear results you will certainly feel that increased torque to the wheels and you'll think it has improved everything.

Again "success" the mod itself (with regards to actual measured results) will depend on how well the OEM optimized the FD. In some cars a FD mod might get you a small bit of improved performance all around. But in most cases you'll get improved in gear results and a variety of effects when measuring specs where multiple gears are used; some slightly positive, some slightly negative and some will show no change.
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      06-13-2010, 02:54 AM   #101
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Disclaimer: no, I don't have this mod...
but I have read the thread - and I notice an argument has shifted from this mod is faster... to now it "feels faster."

This is what the OP said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studntloan View Post
...the car is faster! it doesnt just feel faster
That statement caused the initial argument because it really hasn't been proven faster. Guys are just pointing out you're unsubstantiated statement. If you want to prove otherwise, it's easy -not a video, just get a Vbox - it's less than $500 for goodness sake. Post the data, it's easy enough to verify the validity and there's a good database to compare results.

But now, if you want to shift to how it makes you "feel," of course nobody can argue with YOUR feel of speed. But many enthusiasts are here to KNOW what will actually improve their car's performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixja View Post
Personally I'd highly recommend Powerchip for the tune. If you are going to get a tune, you might as well go with the one that in the general consensus of this forum seems to offer the most gains (I'm sure other tunes are very close, like ESS and GIAC, but vendor claims and opinion seems to show Dinan is definitely a step down).
This is a nice recommendation... "but general consensus on this forum" that powerchip offers the most gains?? Did I miss the poll? I'm sure it's good flash, but I like to form an opinion based on unbiased comparative data, and last I heard Powerchip failed to meet an ESS all-expense AND lunch paid head-to-head challenge (because they were too busy). Hell they could've sent anybody if Mike was soo busy. Then we could have seen what power was put out and the afr's and see the safety margins per output level. So without that, I hereby chime in that I am not part of your "consensus."
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      06-13-2010, 05:44 AM   #102
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I do not understand anything anymore, so please somebody answer my questions?

1. Which FD makes the M3 6MT accelerate quicker from 0 to 100 km/h?

2. Which FD makes the M3 6MT accelerate quicker from 0 to 200 km/h?

3. Which FD makes the M3 6MT do 1/4 mile faster?

4. Why does the M3 GT4 use FD 4.10 instead of 3.85?
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      06-13-2010, 06:21 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post



I do not understand anything anymore, so please somebody answer my questions?

1. Which FD makes the M3 6MT accelerate quicker from 0 to 100 km/h?

2. Which FD makes the M3 6MT accelerate quicker from 0 to 200 km/h?

3. Which FD makes the M3 6MT do 1/4 mile faster?

4. Why does the M3 GT4 use FD 4.10 instead of 3.85?
In the thread I linked to on the first page you can see a lot of simulations for the DCT with OEM FD, 3.45 and 3.62 ratios. What you see from that is that for all of the specs you are interested in, if all other variables are held exactly equal the performance differences are all about +/-0.1 seconds. In other words way way less than all those other variables that you can't really hold perfectly equal across two cars and two drivers. Although I have not run the simulations for the specific MT case you inquire about you can see the pattern and it will be the same there.

The M3 GT4 is an entirely different question. As is driving a car on a track. A FD mod might be a benefit on certain tracks and a detriment on others depending on peak speeds at brake points and which gear those will put you in.

Also NatAsp: Although I would be quite keen to see some Vbox testing. THE ONLY way to to do that right is with multiple runs before the mod and multiple runs after the new FD is installed and broken in. Since the difference you are trying to measure is small you'll just not see it due to all of the other effects. One run of each or car A vs. car B or that combined with driver X vs. driver Y just does not answer the question.
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      06-13-2010, 06:23 AM   #104
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agree exactly, and this forum is a small part of the whole US or the world for that matter. and when put in the grand scheme of things there are more Dinan tunes out there then people think. and in no means is it a step down in any way. it may not put out the same hp/tq numbers but they are not trying to, it is a different style software but far from a step down. if anything it is a step up bc you can go to any BMW dealer with it without fear of your warranty being voided. i have been to 3 different dealers now with my car and no issues. there has been members with other software that have been flagged or had problems. so unless you are cool with your SA you could run into issues possibly, i would say "that" is a step down. also what about long term reliability?? we don't know any of that yet. it isn't alsways about the most hp

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Originally Posted by NatAsp-M3 View Post
Disclaimer: no, I don't have this mod...
but I have read the thread - and I notice an argument has shifted from this mod is faster... to now it "feels faster."

This is what the OP said:


That statement caused the initial argument because it really hasn't been proven faster. Guys are just pointing out you're unsubstantiated statement. If you want to prove otherwise, it's easy -not a video, just get a Vbox - it's less than $500 for goodness sake. Post the data, it's easy enough to verify the validity and there's a good database to compare results.

But now, if you want to shift to how it makes you "feel," of course nobody can argue with YOUR feel of speed. But many enthusiasts are here to KNOW what will actually improve their car's performance.



This is a nice recommendation... "but general consensus on this forum" that powerchip offers the most gains?? Did I miss the poll? I'm sure it's good flash, but I like to form an opinion based on unbiased comparative data, and last I heard Powerchip failed to meet an ESS all-expense AND lunch paid head-to-head challenge (because they were too busy). Hell they could've sent anybody if Mike was soo busy. Then we could have seen what power was put out and the afr's and see the safety margins per output level. So without that, I hereby chime in that I am not part of your "consensus."
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      06-13-2010, 06:59 AM   #105
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Ok, thank you swamp2. Does it also aply to 7DCT transmission?

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      06-13-2010, 09:38 AM   #106
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just wanted to know the tq numbers were real. do most driving in the city and want to improve the driveability as this is my dd. thanks for all the info guys, and believe it or not swamp, you convinced me to get this, thx dood
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      06-13-2010, 02:23 PM   #107
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^^ If you go to the link I posted on the first page that thread has actual simulation numbers for the DCT case and some of the DCT FD ratios being used. The same conclusion is true independent of transmission.

^ Glad I could help. The most important thing to know is what you are getting, what it does and what it won't do. Enjoy it!
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      06-13-2010, 05:43 PM   #108
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thx swamp. am getting a few power increases as it is, full exhaust, filter, tune, and working on some weight reduction so think the 3.45 diff should complement it nicely... keep up the good fight
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      06-14-2010, 12:20 AM   #109
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it def will. i had all that prior to the diff and now with the diff in there it is the perfect package for me. i think you will enjoy it

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thx swamp. am getting a few power increases as it is, full exhaust, filter, tune, and working on some weight reduction so think the 3.45 diff should complement it nicely... keep up the good fight
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      06-14-2010, 09:39 AM   #110
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thx h, it diffinitely will.... pun intended
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