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      04-25-2010, 06:27 AM   #45
rikwynnpa
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Here's the bottom line

The S4 is a tarted up Jetta/A4 2.0. Its backbone is a car designed to sell for $25K. Audi and VW are famous for taking downmarket cars and pulling them upmarket by adding features. The 3 series was designed and built to sell in the $35K+ bracket. No one can tell me that the materials and design of the A4 platform (whatever they call it) is as robust as the 3 series platform. Dropping a V8 or some other big output motor into a car designed to sell for $25K is not a good idea to me. I've spent some time in Europe on business renting cars and the A4 is a cheap car to me, priced to sell to the mass market and - it's not competitive in the materials of construction and design areas vs the 3 series. And who buys a sports car for the sexy headlights anyway? Thats just silly.
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      04-25-2010, 06:37 AM   #46
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Audi has come a long way. They have always had a reputation for making heavy, FWD-ish cars, and their marketing has fought against that. They make the claim that they have moved the motor (which is a V6 btw) rearward, to improve weight distribution. YET, they do not publish that number. Reminds me of Bose--overpriced c*** when it comes to audio equipment. They don't feel the need to publish specs such as frequency response on their loudspeakers. Because the numbers s***.

Anyway, Audi beats BMW is styling, so it's understandable that when you want something that looks great, you're gonna choose Audi. But the trend is interesting, take a car that had a V8, and give it a V6, yet claim it's better.

Audi is the stepchild so they can and will take chances to try to get up their with BMW and MB.
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      04-25-2010, 11:11 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
"Rubbish" is a bit harsh.
I agree that the key difference is feel, but for me the difference in this regard between the 335xi and the rwd 335 is almost as big.

Bottom line: if steering precision and road feel are important to you, get a 335 rwd, and mod appropriately (BMW Perf suspension kit, M3 bits, extreme perf non-rfts, LSD).

If AWD is really vital, go test drive the S4 & xi, they are both great cars IMO, with different emphases as the OP describes.
+1

All this talk about 'feel' coming from the OP who has an xdrive BMW is hilarious

My Dad just got a loaded S4, with sport diff and drive select. The car is a fantastic all arounder. There is an obvious difference in feel compared to my car (coilovers, dp's etc etc) but it is welcome to me.
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      04-25-2010, 12:20 PM   #48
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this thread is going down the shitter so im going to help delegate. i find it hard to call the S4 "rubbish." most major publications have chosen the S4 over the 335. i dont think that threads like this are all that relevent considering there arn't are real professional car testers on this forum. naturally we are going to be a bit more biased towards BMWs because we drive them. but we have to accept the fact that there is a chance that another car will come along and 1-up us.
i dont know how many people are registered to this forum. but i can say that i am one of only a handful of BMW enthusiasts on here. i hate to say it but most of the people on here are fanboys. i used to get so angry when someone threw that name out because i would want to defend all BMW drivers. after being on this thread for approx. a year now, i realize not all BMW drivers deserve to be defended.
Audi has produced a car that can perform a bit better all around. its faster to 60. faster in the 1/4 mile. and if you dont want to hear about speed and say "BMWs have excellent chasis'," the S4 is faster in the slalom. it's just something that we have to accept. But, we the consumer will benefit from competition. and if the past has taught us anything, the F30 should be a real treat. With that being said, while it may be a better car, i can't see myself being as happy with an Audi. BMWs hold a special place in my heart and i dont intend on leaving. And that boys and girls, is what makes a BMW enthusiast- being able to know your car is not the best, but you love driving anyway. People infatuated with BMWs don't hang out on E90post. They have memberships with BMWCCA. I'm number 443205.
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      04-25-2010, 12:36 PM   #49
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I test drove the S4 recently and Audi has done a great job with this vehicle, it's every bit as good as a 335. A comparably equipped S4 is significantly more money however, especially with Audi's "packages" sometimes forcing options you have no interest in. And even worse are their leases which suck due to their even lower-than-BMW residuals, usually about 50% after only two years! Unless the lease is subsidized by Audi during a promotion, they are always more money.

Since I have an LCI E90 and a 2010 Audi, both with Nav, I can compare the two systems: Audi's is easier to use initially, due to the dedicated buttons, BMW's is a better system to use after the learning curve. Both make you select "presets" to tune your favorite stations after starting the car (though BMW seems to be intermittant here) which is the biggest flaw in both systems. I don't like Audi's steering wheel buttons, the IP info display and menus are inaccessible via MMI, the radio shuts off the moment you shut the car off and when you turn it back on the wheel controls don't work, and lastly Audi's Nav displays are still small and looked added on compared to BMW's integrated look.
None of the above is reason to not get an S4 if you prefer it and can afford it!
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      04-25-2010, 12:36 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikwynnpa View Post
The S4 is a tarted up Jetta/A4 2.0. Its backbone is a car designed to sell for $25K. Audi and VW are famous for taking downmarket cars and pulling them upmarket by adding features. The 3 series was designed and built to sell in the $35K+ bracket. No one can tell me that the materials and design of the A4 platform (whatever they call it) is as robust as the 3 series platform. Dropping a V8 or some other big output motor into a car designed to sell for $25K is not a good idea to me. I've spent some time in Europe on business renting cars and the A4 is a cheap car to me, priced to sell to the mass market and - it's not competitive in the materials of construction and design areas vs the 3 series. And who buys a sports car for the sexy headlights anyway? Thats just silly.
Dude, what part of Europe did you go to? You do realize Mercs/BMW's are fleets/rentals and taxi's in Europe, right? Most high ranking diplomats roll around in Audi's

I am jealous of you, though - I wish my business allowed me to travel to Europe
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      04-25-2010, 12:53 PM   #51
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Ridiculous review. I can understand some of this "driving passion/joy" drivel coming from a 335i owner but the fact that the S4 does better than the xi is universally acknowledged. I really dont know what to say about the quality of the interiors, maybe you got a special "e90" to prefer it over the Audi.

Build quality is excellent on the Audi's.
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Being a fan of Honda engines, I requested that they consider building for the F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up with a BMW engine.
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      04-25-2010, 12:56 PM   #52
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Quote:
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Dude, what part of Europe did you go to? You do realize Mercs/BMW's are fleets/rentals and taxi's in Europe, right? Most high ranking diplomats roll around in Audi's

I am jealous of you, though - I wish my business allowed me to travel to Europe
LOL.

Every german chancellor has traditionally used Mercedes Benz (Hitler even submitted drawings to MB for prospective models). The only deviation comes from regional politicians that tend to support their native brands.

Merkel these days shuffles between cars from all 3 to promote solidarity and some politicians use Audi/BMW because Mercedes is still thought to be a bit too upmarket in image.
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Being a fan of Honda engines, I requested that they consider building for the F1 a 4.5 liter V10 or V12. I asked, I tried to persuade them, but in the end could not convince them to do it, and the McLaren F1 ended up with a BMW engine.
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      04-25-2010, 01:01 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikwynnpa View Post
The 3 series was designed and built to sell in the $35K+ bracket. . . . Dropping a V8 or some other big output motor into a car designed to sell for $25K is not a good idea to me.
But let me guess -- dropping a V8 into a car designed to sell for $35K (Ahem, M3) is a good idea to you? Typical fanboi rhetoric.
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      04-25-2010, 01:07 PM   #54
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It boggles my mind that some of you guys are trying to say the materials in the 335i feel better than the s4. You are pure fanboys. my 10 year old b5 had almost as good materials as my e92 (leather interior) and the b8 s4 has MUCH NICER INTERIOR WHO ARE YOU KIDDING? and holy shitt, the non leather e92 interior feels like complete horse shitt (had it on a loaner 335i W/ no sport seats
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      04-25-2010, 01:09 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeadFootWOT View Post
But let me guess -- dropping a V8 into a car designed to sell for $35K (Ahem, M3) is a good idea to you? Typical fanboi rhetoric.
Agreed. Painful this site is sometimes. People tend to forget about the 320d, and the 328 as well as the other end of the spectrum - the M3.

I would also love to see the direct relationship and shared parts between the jetta and the S4. Taking a big guess that there is not as much as that poster believes.
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      04-25-2010, 01:11 PM   #56
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The A4 and S4 have always underwhelmed me; I've never understood the attraction. I haven't driven the new S4 yet, but the A4 was a snoozefest. There are certainly worse cars out there (so "rubbish" might be a little harsh) but I agree with your review.
WHat do you mean by "snoozefest"?
Was is too slow for you?
Boring?

Cause I hate to break it to you but it is not much slower than your car (if ANY slower), and unless you tried the Quattro, you haver a very wrong impression about it...

The looks (inside and out) are subjective...
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      04-25-2010, 01:14 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by xG35c View Post
I test drove the S4 recently and Audi has done a great job with this vehicle, it's every bit as good as a 335. A comparably equipped S4 is significantly more money however, especially with Audi's "packages" sometime!
Can you show the actual numbers please???

Base S4 equals (pretty much) to the 335XI + Premium + Sport + Cold weather packages. The 335 is about $2k more expensive. If you look at the 335iS, because that is what they targeted with it, then the gap is MUCH bigger...

The additional packages are not offered by the 335...
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      04-25-2010, 01:17 PM   #58
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Thats true, I agree with what you said for the most part.


You, nor Audi can explain the part where the S4 lacks the "driving Passion"...the "expression joy" that I feel with the BMW 6MT, and don't feel with the Audi. I can't speak to interior build quality, maybe its better on Audi...from what I understand, all three German brands are bad for reliability and long term build quality!

That insulation takes away from the driving experience; thats all I'm trying to say. Like I said, for a different person looking for an insulated ride, talking on bluetooth, maybe this car is good. For the enthusiast...this is no enthusiasts car -- the engine does not make the car. The overall package does.

You're right, I have cream beige interior with burl walnut trim...it is very luxurious and soft.

Good luck to you and enjoy the S4...its a hot car these days, head turner for sure! I just happen to think its not an enthusiasts car, and doesn't have that "connected" intimate driving experience BMW and Porsche have.

Cheers.
: confused0068::confused 0068: hhahahah honestly how can you even say that your e92 335xi with off road suspension is more involving to drive than the b8 s4. you are comparing a normal bmw to an S. Dont get me wrong, i have an e92 335i but i dont get it twisted.
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      04-25-2010, 01:25 PM   #59
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I think it was a pretty good review. For me personally I would Never buy an all wheel drive car so I will not even consider the new S4. To me its more of a high performance family car. Not too interested in another sedan either.
you would never buy an s4 but you bought a e90 330i? ohhh is it because it is soo much less sporty and fun to drive?
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      04-25-2010, 01:30 PM   #60
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I'm gonna post this thread on Porsche forums so the members can laugh at all of us Bimmer and Audi fans arguing over which car has better road feel, performance, fit and finish, which car is the runner up German auto.


I foresee a Porsche forum post..."Hey, check out these guys on E90post arguing over which car is the valedictorian of summer school."

I guess we all need our drama.
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      04-25-2010, 01:34 PM   #61
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Both the S4 and 335i are great cars, and anyone who has either in there garage should consider themselves lucky.

From pure performance the S4 has been shown to be both faster and more agile whether in a straight line or on the track. However most people will never track their cars and on the streets there is nothing that one can do over the other. Therefore it comes down to preference. I love BMW but needed a change.

And as for the pricing as I listed on another post my ordered S4 was nearly 4000 less then a similarly equipped e92 335 xdrive coupe. Audi S4 sticker 52010 vs 55900 for the BMW.
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      04-25-2010, 01:39 PM   #62
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To each his own.

If features over driving experience was the most important thing for me, I'd probably buy a Ford. I heard Sync is pretty cool.

Seriously, other people think BMW drivers and Audi drivers are jerks. What ever happened to the mutual respect out there? Real automotive enthusiasts should appreciate ALL cars, regardless of what make or model. It's all about respect for another man's car.
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      04-25-2010, 01:40 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremicium View Post
I'm gonna post this thread on Porsche forums so the members can laugh at all of us Bimmer and Audi fans arguing over which car has better road feel, performance, fit and finish, which car is the runner up German auto.


I foresee a Porsche forum post..."Hey, check out these guys on E90post arguing over which car is the valedictorian of summer school."

I guess we all need our drama.
lol i wonder what they fight about. maybe, who's better: My GT3RS or his GT2?
this site is such a disappointment sometimes.
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      04-25-2010, 01:47 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by blue2fire View Post
LOL.

Every german chancellor has traditionally used Mercedes Benz (Hitler even submitted drawings to MB for prospective models). The only deviation comes from regional politicians that tend to support their native brands.

Merkel these days shuffles between cars from all 3 to promote solidarity and some politicians use Audi/BMW because Mercedes is still thought to be a bit too upmarket in image.
Hence the term "most" in my original post There aren't too many German chancellors around

I was speaking more in traditional/general terms but thanks for the clarification.
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      04-25-2010, 01:52 PM   #65
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To me:

- Audi S4 with S-tronic and Sport differential gets beaten by a 335i rwd with DCT, Power Kit and a LSD.
- Audi S4 looks much worse than a BMW on the exterior. To spend money on the Audi styling when there is the LCI BMW styling available, it would be a waste of money.
- BMW interior gets a bit outdated but the evolution is in no case the Audi interior, but new, simpler and sportier interiors. Hundreds of buttons on the dash is a thing of the past.
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      04-25-2010, 01:55 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cstavaru View Post
To me:

- Audi S4 with S-tronic and Sport differential gets beaten by a 335i rwd with DCT, Power Kit and a LSD.
- Audi S4 looks much worse than a BMW on the exterior. To spend money on the Audi styling when there is the LCI BMW styling available, it would be a waste of money.
- BMW interior gets a bit outdated but the evolution is in no case the Audi interior, but new, simpler and sportier interiors. Hundreds of buttons on the dash is a thing of the past.

I bet you can't find one article or publications to back your first statement.

The rest is all your opinion.
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