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      03-22-2010, 10:14 PM   #45
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Here's my take as a medical professional

On paper the bill seems good, but the biggest issue is that it vastly expands medicare. Even at current reimbursement levels, medicare in many cases pays doctors and hospitals at rates below cost. Until now this was feasible as most patients presented with private insurance, but this new bill combined with decreasing medicare reimbursement rates ... scheduledfor the next decade are likely to drive physicians out of underserved specialties (i.e. primary care) and areas.

Without some serious improvements in incentives for physicians and future medical students to enter these areas, you're going to see a massive shortage in physicians in primary care.

Socially it is a good bill to pass, but economically it is quite negative, and is pretty bad timing. Those calculated costs will rise rapidly: What you're going to see now is insurance providers unable to profitably supply insurance, necessitating a further expansion of medicare-like programs and ultimately a largely government - funded healthcare system. Which is not good on many levels.

Overall conclusion? Be prepared for a declining quality in physicians over the next few decades, as less people choose to jump into medical school and salaries in medicine decline.
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      03-22-2010, 10:29 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achenator View Post
My best friend is a PA at the emergency room. The other day this couple comes in with a sick kid. They are not married and neither one has health insurance. The kid has free coverage from the fed/state. Both parents are wearing full designer clothes, plenty of jewelry and both blabbing on iphones. Dad is wearing $200 shoes and mom is sporting an expensive bag. Seriously??? Those are wants, not needs. I guess the taxpayers are going to be paying for healthcare for these idiots.
Is it semantics when we basically say that you (or other ER patrons) have been paying for these folks (not just the kid) prior to this point?
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      03-22-2010, 10:31 PM   #47
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You're such a moron it's unbelievable. What does being a DJ have to do with his political views? If you drive a car, then insurance is mandatory. If you get pulled over in Cali without car insurance your car will be impounded and your license will be suspended.
Do you understand that the word "if" in your statement makes that statement conditional? As it is subject to a condition, it is not then generally applicable. The law which mandates automobile insurance is conditional on a choice a person is free to make or not make, to operate a car on the public roads. That level of choice is NOT available with regard to the health insurance mandate in the new health care bill. Everyone in the US regardless of any choice they make is mandated to have health insurance. That is different in kind from auto insurance.
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      03-22-2010, 10:37 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
On paper the bill seems good, but the biggest issue is that it vastly expands medicare. Even at current reimbursement levels, medicare in many cases pays doctors and hospitals at rates below cost. Until now this was feasible as most patients presented with private insurance, but this new bill combined with decreasing medicare reimbursement rates ... scheduledfor the next decade are likely to drive physicians out of underserved specialties (i.e. primary care) and areas.

Without some serious improvements in incentives for physicians and future medical students to enter these areas, you're going to see a massive shortage in physicians in primary care.

Socially it is a good bill to pass, but economically it is quite negative, and is pretty bad timing. Those calculated costs will rise rapidly: What you're going to see now is insurance providers unable to profitably supply insurance, necessitating a further expansion of medicare-like programs and ultimately a largely government - funded healthcare system. Which is not good on many levels.

Overall conclusion? Be prepared for a declining quality in physicians over the next few decades, as less people choose to jump into medical school and salaries in medicine decline.
Very true. The vast majority of people want to become a doctor for $$$. Once the salaries of doctors decline, many people will have less incentive to become doctors, even the ones who are truly able to handle med school.

Med students will want to specialize/sub specialize in different fields of medicine, which will create a shortage of primary care doctors.
IMO, Obama had a good idea, but his plan will fail terribly..but we will see, I may be wrong.

Overall, +1 to everything you said.
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      03-23-2010, 01:13 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
Do you understand that the word "if" in your statement makes that statement conditional? As it is subject to a condition, it is not then generally applicable. The law which mandates automobile insurance is conditional on a choice a person is free to make or not make, to operate a car on the public roads. That level of choice is NOT available with regard to the health insurance mandate in the new health care bill. Everyone in the US regardless of any choice they make is mandated to have health insurance. That is different in kind from auto insurance.
Yes I understand that but it's wrong to compare car and auto insurance. And trust me I'm not too happy with this bill either.
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      03-23-2010, 01:21 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
I guess I should not expect much in the way of intelligence from a DJ
As best I know, and solefad can correct me if I'm wrong, he's a Unix System Engineer by profession, or at least was. That's not a profession in which stupidity gets you very far.
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      03-23-2010, 01:30 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
Do you understand that the word "if" in your statement makes that statement conditional? As it is subject to a condition, it is not then generally applicable. The law which mandates automobile insurance is conditional on a choice a person is free to make or not make, to operate a car on the public roads. That level of choice is NOT available with regard to the health insurance mandate in the new health care bill. Everyone in the US regardless of any choice they make is mandated to have health insurance. That is different in kind from auto insurance.
Through taxes, everyone is also required to fund repairs to the interstate highway system, whether or not they drive. Everyone is required to pay social security even though it's doubtful many who pay will ever reap the benefits of it. There's nothing new here.
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      03-23-2010, 06:18 AM   #52
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ok, here is some suggested reading from someone I know at the OMB. Shame on you if you don't read it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/yo...tml?ref=policy


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...ng_cost_c.html

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...y-father/7617/
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      03-23-2010, 06:39 AM   #53
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Good articles...thanks
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      03-23-2010, 07:54 AM   #54
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I agree, good articles, thanks for posting those.
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      03-23-2010, 08:56 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrutled View Post
Wow, those are three unbiased pieces you have there.

Here is a bit from the other side. Shame on you if you don't read it.
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      03-23-2010, 09:10 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by shpirate87 View Post
Wow, those are three unbiased pieces you have there.

Here is a bit from the other side. Shame on you if you don't read it.
You beat me to it.
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      03-23-2010, 09:54 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achenator View Post
What kills me though is this.
My best friend is a PA at the emergency room. The other day this couple comes in with a sick kid. They are not married and neither one has health insurance. The kid has free coverage from the fed/state. Both parents are wearing full designer clothes, plenty of jewelry and both blabbing on iphones. Dad is wearing $200 shoes and mom is sporting an expensive bag. Seriously??? Those are wants, not needs. I guess the taxpayers are going to be paying for healthcare for these idiots.
Then you should be happy about this bill then. Since it requires everyone to purchase insurance or face a fee. Remember this bill is not for giving away free healthcare, its about making it more affordable so that people CAN BUY IT.

What bugs me about your statement is that I hear it constantly from people who have really no idea was this bill does. This bill was not about providing people living on welfare with health insurance. HELLO! They already have it in medicaid.

This bill was about making insurance more affordable to those small business owners who don't have the privledge of joining a large pool to get good rates.

This bill was about giving people with a pre-exisiting conditions the chance to get coverage again after always getting denied.

Why on earth do people think this bill is for helping "low lifes"????? It's far from it.
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      03-23-2010, 10:12 AM   #58
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As best I know, and solefad can correct me if I'm wrong, he's a Unix System Engineer by profession, or at least was. That's not a profession in which stupidity gets you very far.
Thanks, radix, I still am, even though UC system has a different title for it.

As far as this tool goes, I just put him on ignore. There is no way to reason with a person who switches to personal attacks on people they don't even know, as soon as they run out of coherent things to say.
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      03-23-2010, 10:15 AM   #59
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Then you should be happy about this bill then. Since it requires everyone to purchase insurance or face a fee. Remember this bill is not for giving away free healthcare, its about making it more affordable so that people CAN BUY IT.

What bugs me about your statement is that I hear it constantly from people who have really no idea was this bill does. This bill was not about providing people living on welfare with health insurance. HELLO! They already have it in medicaid.

This bill was about making insurance more affordable to those small business owners who don't have the privledge of joining a large pool to get good rates.

This bill was about giving people with a pre-exisiting conditions the chance to get coverage again after always getting denied.

Why on earth do people think this bill is for helping "low lifes"????? It's far from it.
Did you actually read what you responded to? The kid WAS covered by medicaid. The parents could have afforded coverage as evidenced by their clothes and jewelry. This bill will do nothing to improve this situation as it will now be easier for the kid to stay on medicaid while the parents get subsidized coverage so they can maintain their iPhones and $200 shoes. You think their getting someone else to pay for their coverage improves the situation?
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      03-23-2010, 10:17 AM   #60
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How an industry dies.

I cannot wait to hear the wails from the left when these "Benedict Arnold" companies ship their jobs overseas.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/po...#ixzz0j0PrMWKL
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      03-23-2010, 10:23 AM   #61
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this bill is going to make all the brilliant minds that could make a difference in the medical field look for different careers. A good amount of doctor will be forced out of private practice. Since no one from the public can read the bill we will just have to sit back a wait to see what happens.
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      03-23-2010, 11:00 AM   #62
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Did you actually read what you responded to? The kid WAS covered by medicaid. The parents could have afforded coverage as evidenced by their clothes and jewelry.
I read it. Maybe you should re-read. He didn't mention medicaid. He mentioned 'free' coverage....that could come from anywhere. States have their own offerings too you know.

That being said, I guess you don't know what health insurance costs for someone who doesn't have a job that offers it.

Try upwards of $1,200 or more for a family. Sorry but $200 shoes won't be enough to cover it.

Why do you think COBRA exists? Because insurance is affordable?

Last edited by TMNT; 03-23-2010 at 11:16 AM.
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      03-23-2010, 11:19 AM   #63
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this bill is going to make all the brilliant minds that could make a difference in the medical field look for different careers. A good amount of doctor will be forced out of private practice.
Care to explain the reasoning behind your statement?
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      03-23-2010, 11:21 AM   #64
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How an industry dies.

I cannot wait to hear the wails from the left when these "Benedict Arnold" companies ship their jobs overseas.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/po...#ixzz0j0PrMWKL
Odd...just yesterday, Pharma, insurance, and medical device companies loved the news and stocks shot up through the roof. I guess adding 32 million more customers to the system will cause them to shift jobs overseas

Granted taxes will go up for them, but the added revenue will far exceed any losses from taxes. They said it themselves.
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      03-23-2010, 12:08 PM   #65
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Care to explain the reasoning behind your statement?
You're looking for an intellectual argument for what reason?
I agree with him for the most part. With a family owned private practice with small hospitals and Surgical centers; its fairly easy to deduce my feelings today.
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      03-23-2010, 12:10 PM   #66
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Care to explain the reasoning behind your statement?
You're looking for an intellectual argument for what reason?
I agree with him for the most part. With a family owned private practice with small hospitals and Surgical centers; its fairly easy to deduce my feelings today.
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