BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Evolve Automotive
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-28-2009, 11:11 PM   #1
bunnn
Colonel
 
bunnn's Avatar
 
Drives: like a grandma
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto

Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (12)

Dyno'd, have a few questions

So I dyno'd my car today...it's my first time dyno'd a car ever...it was done on a Dynojet ..while I know dyno's are easily manipulated, the guys I've dyno'd with said this particular dyno has always been a heartbreaker, but I find my number ridiculously low, although it wasn't at full rpm range

temp was ~57F @ 9:58am .... so best of 2 runs I got 340whp/259wtq@7800rpm... I was going to do a 3rd, but I had to rush to the airport so I cut it there...

There was a few issues, the engine wouldn't get over 7800rpm(2nd run) on either run...it just shut down, the guy said the DSC was interferring ... I'm not sure if DSC was fully off, the button was held till the light came on...I was also dyno'ing on 18" m5 rep winters(235/40/18 and 245/40/18 Hankook w300)

Edit: I also had all my DSC, ABS lights on after the runs, but they went away as soon as i got out of the plaza

dyno'd in 4th as I was told, just wondering if anyone dyno'd in 3rd gear..

mod list concerning dyno: full akrapovic, AA Software v1.5, technocraft envy system with BMW filter...Shell 91



Any insight is appreciated, thanks...
__________________
Cheers
Ben
bunnn is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2009, 11:22 PM   #2
TheKosherStogie
Lieutenant Colonel
 
TheKosherStogie's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 M3 DCT AW/Red
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Hollywood

Posts: 1,593
iTrader: (1)

i know 340 isnt really that low, maybe for a dynojet, but many m3s dyno on a dyno dynamic at 310-320whp...take a look at the dyno list http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254974
__________________
13 E92 M3 ZCP
Stock w/Rs3 - WSIR 1:33:9 / BW C13 2:03:6 / ACS 1:56:7
KW CS w/Rs3 - WSIR 1:32:8 / BW C13 1:59:2 / ACS 1:55:1
APR Wing/Rs3 - WSIR 1:30:9 / BW C13 1:57:7
TheKosherStogie is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-28-2009, 11:30 PM   #3
bunnn
Colonel
 
bunnn's Avatar
 
Drives: like a grandma
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto

Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (12)

mhmm to put it in perspective.. a stock b8 s4 put down 307whp(best run of 3, other 2 was 290 and 295 respectively) on the same dyno after me... so when I see 341whp with my bolt ons, i thought it was a little bit low, granted it was @ 7800rpm...

I also had a look at the database as soon as I got home, noticed only 2 individuals(only comparing with dynojet) ..had the same issue of dynoing @ ~7800 rpm, their's was actually 7900; i didn't compare with JDM0977's result as his was a stroker..
__________________
Cheers
Ben
bunnn is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 04:53 AM   #4
Jonmartin
Banned
 
Jonmartin's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angles (818)

Posts: 2,103
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to Jonmartin
I heard alot of people have been losing power with the AA software. 340whp with all those mods is pretty low. If it was stock it would be right in line. My car after the rebuild did 336whp on a Dynojet with no mods. And with your car shutting down at 7800rpm doesn't make sense even with DSC on much less off it wouldn't interfere.
Jonmartin is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 07:47 AM   #5
Eugene-TAIWAN
Brigadier General
 
Eugene-TAIWAN's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan

Posts: 3,112
iTrader: (4)

Hey Ben,

Nice talking the other day, take some pictures when you get the wheels on.

I think you can PM Powerchip/ or a GIAC . I think you will be better off that way.

Eugene
__________________

Past: Gintani stage3 M3
present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6, 991C4S, i3 in September
Eugene-TAIWAN is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 08:58 AM   #6
Ben335
Captain
 
Ben335's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 M3 Finally here
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Virginia

Posts: 891
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonmartin View Post
I heard alot of people have been losing power with the AA software. 340whp with all those mods is pretty low. If it was stock it would be right in line. My car after the rebuild did 336whp on a Dynojet with no mods. And with your car shutting down at 7800rpm doesn't make sense even with DSC on much less off it wouldn't interfere.
I have been hearing this too. Can anyone shed more details on this?
__________________
09 SG E90, Black on Carbon Leather, Tech, Premium, Cold, iPod, Premium Sound, 19s, OEM Alarm, PDC, Moonroof, Sirius
Eisenmann Sport / Eibach Springs / 35% F1 Pinnacle Tint / Macht Schnell Air Filter / LUX Angel Eyes / Black Grill / AA Pulley / Powerchip Stage II Tune / Fabspeed X-Pipe & HFC / RAC Monolites RG63
Ben335 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 10:16 AM   #7
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
 
DLSJ5's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

Posts: 3,425
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to DLSJ5
Those #s are about what stock cars do on a DJ, which is usually pretty consistent from one dyno to another, with those mods that is way off. Best of luck getting it sorted out.
__________________
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
DLSJ5 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 01:47 PM   #8
mixja
Captain
 
Drives: 2011 E90 DCT Silverstone
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Beverly Hils, CA

Posts: 783
iTrader: (1)

Dyno testing is not really that useful unless you perform your own baselines on your own car on the same dyno. Next time make sure you dyno the car stock on the same dyno...
mixja is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 04:42 PM   #9
bunnn
Colonel
 
bunnn's Avatar
 
Drives: like a grandma
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto

Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixja View Post
Dyno testing is not really that useful unless you perform your own baselines on your own car on the same dyno. Next time make sure you dyno the car stock on the same dyno...
I understand this, but my car had these most of the mods before or shortly after my 2000km service...wasn't much time to go dyno each time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
You need to get a full RPM range dyno run. The results simply aren't valid without it.

You should also consult the Dyno Database (http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/DynoDB.html) to compare other results. Even at 7800 RPMs, it does look like you're not making enough power. But look in the DynoDB to see how others have performed.
I understand that I need to get full range, but unfortunately, as mentioned I was having issues getting past 7800, and I have looked at the results(mainly dynojet) but it showed I was 1 of the few that had the cut off and particularly low, hence this thread..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN View Post
Hey Ben,

Nice talking the other day, take some pictures when you get the wheels on.

I think you can PM Powerchip/ or a GIAC . I think you will be better off that way.

Eugene
Hey Eugene, I've already mentioned I prefer GIAC to AA, it'll be a matter of time before I switch over....gotta fix that CEL situation, might haveto contact you about that again...


As for AA I'm not sure if I felt a loss in power, but when I got it I didnt feel like I got more up top, just slightly more torque down low... I will go back and redyno before and after the GIAC flash
__________________
Cheers
Ben
bunnn is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 04:44 PM   #10
Jonmartin
Banned
 
Jonmartin's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angles (818)

Posts: 2,103
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to Jonmartin
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixja View Post
Dyno testing is not really that useful unless you perform your own baselines on your own car on the same dyno. Next time make sure you dyno the car stock on the same dyno...
Ya but theres a point of refence when using the same brand of dyno, and for his results to even make sense his baseline would have to be like 295whp.
Jonmartin is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 04:46 PM   #11
bunnn
Colonel
 
bunnn's Avatar
 
Drives: like a grandma
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto

Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonmartin View Post
Ya but theres a point of refence when using the same brand of dyno, and for his results to even make sense his baseline would have to be like 295whp.
lemon! =(
__________________
Cheers
Ben
bunnn is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 04:48 PM   #12
Jonmartin
Banned
 
Jonmartin's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Los Angles (818)

Posts: 2,103
iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to Jonmartin
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnn View Post
I understand this, but my car had these most of the mods before or shortly after my 2000km service...wasn't much time to go dyno each time...



I understand that I need to get full range, but unfortunately, as mentioned I was having issues getting past 7800, and I have looked at the results(mainly dynojet) but it showed I was 1 of the few that had the cut off and particularly low, hence this thread..



Hey Eugene, I've already mentioned I prefer GIAC to AA, it'll be a matter of time before I switch over....gotta fix that CEL situation, might haveto contact you about that again...


As for AA I'm not sure if I felt a loss in power, but when I got it I didnt feel like I got more up top, just slightly more torque down low... I will go back and redyno before and after the GIAC flash
Giac is good stuff but I heard they wont turn off the CEL. I happen to know a guy that gained 30whp with all his bolt-ons just by switching from the AA 1.5 to Powerchip same dyno same day without moving the car off the machine I was
Jonmartin is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 06:27 PM   #13
powertrip
Scared money don't make money.
 
powertrip's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Irvine, CA

Posts: 1,458
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2009 E92 M3  [0.00]
Yep, I picked up 40whp and I'm pretty sure my buddy Jay picked up 31whp. We both had AA flashes....coincodence? I thinking not .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonmartin View Post
Giac is good stuff but I heard they wont turn off the CEL. I happen to know a guy that gained 30whp with all his bolt-ons just by switching from the AA 1.5 to Powerchip same dyno same day without moving the car off the machine I was
__________________
2009 E92 M3/DCT/Alpine White/Fox Red/Carbon Leather
OE Tuned 402 whp & 303 wtq/Gintani X-pipe/MXP Axle Back/Rogue Pulley/AFE Stage 2/Cosmetics By IND & EAS
HUGE THANKS: Gintani, OE Tuning, and EAS
powertrip is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 07:23 PM   #14
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
 
DLSJ5's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

Posts: 3,425
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to DLSJ5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonmartin View Post
Giac is good stuff but I heard they wont turn off the CEL. I happen to know a guy that gained 30whp with all his bolt-ons just by switching from the AA 1.5 to Powerchip same dyno same day without moving the car off the machine I was
This is true, my GIAC software has been great on every car I've owned, but the only downside is they will not turn off the rear 02's, so if that's something you need done, then go PC.
__________________
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
DLSJ5 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 07:57 PM   #15
bunnn
Colonel
 
bunnn's Avatar
 
Drives: like a grandma
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto

Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (12)

while i've read how great PC is, it's not very feasible for me to take out my ECU to have them flash it..nor do I think setting up a GB for Toronto is possible; only a handful of us..there doesnt seem to be much interest in a flash in general ...

i;m wondering, what gear is everyone dyno'ing in? i've read about others that dyno'd yesterday..and for those that used 3rd gear..they gained about 13AWHP on average from the 4 gear runs...
__________________
Cheers
Ben
bunnn is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-29-2009, 10:28 PM   #16
Eugene-TAIWAN
Brigadier General
 
Eugene-TAIWAN's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan

Posts: 3,112
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
This is true, my GIAC software has been great on every car I've owned, but the only downside is they will not turn off the rear 02's, so if that's something you need done, then go PC.

I am totally feeling what your saying!!!! Really Got to talk to Garret about turning off the 2nd o2.
__________________

Past: Gintani stage3 M3
present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6, 991C4S, i3 in September
Eugene-TAIWAN is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      11-30-2009, 12:47 AM   #17
Ben335
Captain
 
Ben335's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 M3 Finally here
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Virginia

Posts: 891
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I try to watch all of these threads, and I've only seen this claim made in one other thread. That thread caused quite a heated debate.
So while I wouldn't say "a lot of people have been losing power" -- I would say that it was once claimed in what was supposed to be a controlled test. A thread on the testing methodology was promised to allow people to scritinize the measurement testing methods, but as far as I remember, no such thread was ever created. So in my mind, this was a one-off situation and was never fully substantiated.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296406
I have just heard it here as more than 5-7 guys that I have talked to personally. I just think there has to be something if so many people are saying such a thing. No one seems to be able to shed more light on it.
__________________
09 SG E90, Black on Carbon Leather, Tech, Premium, Cold, iPod, Premium Sound, 19s, OEM Alarm, PDC, Moonroof, Sirius
Eisenmann Sport / Eibach Springs / 35% F1 Pinnacle Tint / Macht Schnell Air Filter / LUX Angel Eyes / Black Grill / AA Pulley / Powerchip Stage II Tune / Fabspeed X-Pipe & HFC / RAC Monolites RG63
Ben335 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-30-2009, 08:34 AM   #18
GTM
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
GTM's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crystal Lake, IL

Posts: 1,034
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to GTM Send a message via MSN to GTM
How A/F was measured? from the exhaust tip?

IMO, it's definitly on lean-side....
It's lean enough for ECU to pull back some timing...
You are running almost 15:1 @ 4000rpm...that's no good.

Either your intake, or exhaust is making much leaner than what AA ECU set its AF.
GTM is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      11-30-2009, 12:00 PM   #19
bunnn
Colonel
 
bunnn's Avatar
 
Drives: like a grandma
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto

Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (12)

it definitely wasn't from the exhaust tips...i'm not sure what, but I think it was from the ecu?...they had a bunch of things plugged into the engine bay
__________________
Cheers
Ben
bunnn is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      11-30-2009, 03:50 PM   #20
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
 
Singletrack's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Posts: 3,795
iTrader: (3)

I would investigate the AFR as GTM mentions. The stock ECU, as a basis for comparison, wants to run sub-14 AFRs at 4k RPMs. Just check out the dyno db; many dynos have AFR charts as well.

That is bizarre about all your indicator lights coming on - not sure what would cause that, but it is not normal.

I would personally be hesitant to run aftermarket software not specifically written for the full Akra setup. There are a few dynos showing that the Akra introduces a lean condition in the 2k-3k RPM range. I haven't seen anyone tune this out as of yet or explain it. You are now adding an intake to the equation which could be further complicating things. I have never seen a before/after AFR graph for the technocraft.
Singletrack is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-01-2009, 07:08 PM   #21
bunnn
Colonel
 
bunnn's Avatar
 
Drives: like a grandma
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Toronto

Posts: 2,255
iTrader: (12)

I agree about the software to run full akra set up, unfortunately here in the cold white north, it's not as easy as it is in the States....

Right now, I'm having some thoughts about my AA software...the o2 sensor delete, which I opted for does not eliminate my CEL at all...in both version of their software, the CEL would come on and go away after a few hundred KMs.... it's really weird....
__________________
Cheers
Ben
bunnn is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-01-2009, 07:56 PM   #22
Eugene-TAIWAN
Brigadier General
 
Eugene-TAIWAN's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Taiwan

Posts: 3,112
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnn View Post
I agree about the software to run full akra set up, unfortunately here in the cold white north, it's not as easy as it is in the States....

Right now, I'm having some thoughts about my AA software...the o2 sensor delete, which I opted for does not eliminate my CEL at all...in both version of their software, the CEL would come on and go away after a few hundred KMs.... it's really weird....

I totally did know that you had CEL problems even you paid for a CEL delete file. that just sounds crazy to me. I'll hook you up.
__________________

Past: Gintani stage3 M3
present: Porsche 993RWB, 964RS America,996 cupcar, 964 turbo 3.6, 991C4S, i3 in September
Eugene-TAIWAN is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST