BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-01-2010, 07:15 PM   #23
bavarian19
General
bavarian19's Avatar
United_States
233
Rep
18,815
Posts

 
Drives: Car
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: VA

iTrader: (23)

cant say im a fan of how it looks.
Appreciate 0
      03-01-2010, 07:33 PM   #24
EagleEye CA
Supreme Chancellor
0
Rep
81
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_LIN View Post
yes, i agree. I already pointed that out in my first post. Thanks for reiterating it.



Because we found out that the A/F was OFF, so i was way too annoyed to get alex to do a Final dyno chart. If you want the right axis, there's another pic that i did that has the right axis.

Thanks for all the comments. I love my intake. It should gain power once i tune. So, im okay with that!

Ed Lin
Looks like this is off the axis too then



Not trying to start a conspiracy here, just noticed this myself and wondered why they do this to all their dynos. This was on the same day too no?
Appreciate 0
      03-01-2010, 08:39 PM   #25
MrHarris
yodog
MrHarris's Avatar
United_States
77
Rep
5,037
Posts

 
Drives: '86 Corolla
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2009 BMW  [5.00]
Send a message via AIM to MrHarris
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleEye CA View Post
Looks like this is off the axis too then



Not trying to start a conspiracy here, just noticed this myself and wondered why they do this to all their dynos. This was on the same day too no?
They always have the axis correct. Perhaps they got forgot this time.
__________________

2009 E92 M3 | Alpine White | Black Extended | Advan RS | Turner Test Pipes | Dinan Axle-Back | OETuning | Eibach Springs | UUC SSK | VRS Front Lip | VRS Type I Diffuser | Matte Black | RPi Scoops | MS Filter | Yokohama AD08 | F1 Pinnacle
Special Thanks: Gintani | OETuning | eAs
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 02:44 AM   #26
M3_LIN
LM-R Whore.
M3_LIN's Avatar
United_States
36
Rep
858
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 White M3 Sedan
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: LA

iTrader: (1)

Send a message via AIM to M3_LIN Send a message via MSN to M3_LIN
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleEye CA View Post
Looks like this is off the axis too then



Not trying to start a conspiracy here, just noticed this myself and wondered why they do this to all their dynos. This was on the same day too no?
wait what? What axises is wrong in this picture?

Ed Lin
__________________

09AWE90M: Light headlight tint, Full front end clear bra wrap(Harris@InstyleGraphics), Ceramic tint(40%), Piaa GTX H3 bulb, HID 8k AE, 6k Low, INT Luxer1 lights, RD springs, LMR 20X9 +8, 20X10 +18 (Dave @ Status), Vertice CF hood Ducts(Dat @ VertexUSA), Tecnocraft FULL Envy Intake system+plenum(KEVLAR)+cabin filter covers, Meister GTC exhaust, Arkym F LIP.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 05:37 AM   #27
Bob MG
Moderating
Bob MG's Avatar
United Arab Emirates
72
Rep
1,883
Posts

 
Drives: like a muppet
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dubai

iTrader: (0)

Just out of interest.. How much did you spend in total? Like over $3000 for all that?
I bought the Technocraft stuff and its nice, but only three pieces. It should make horsepower so there is a mistake. It takes 30 minutes to remove, why don't you remove it and re do the dyno and then re install it while it cools down for 30 minutes?

In any event, for an extra 9k you could have a supercharger! What you have done is a little bit of a waste
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 05:43 AM   #28
MrHarris
yodog
MrHarris's Avatar
United_States
77
Rep
5,037
Posts

 
Drives: '86 Corolla
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2009 BMW  [5.00]
Send a message via AIM to MrHarris
Why does your torque curve look all funky with the tecnocraft stuff?
__________________

2009 E92 M3 | Alpine White | Black Extended | Advan RS | Turner Test Pipes | Dinan Axle-Back | OETuning | Eibach Springs | UUC SSK | VRS Front Lip | VRS Type I Diffuser | Matte Black | RPi Scoops | MS Filter | Yokohama AD08 | F1 Pinnacle
Special Thanks: Gintani | OETuning | eAs
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 05:50 AM   #29
smmmurf
Colonel
32
Rep
2,113
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 M3 Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pleasanton, CA

iTrader: (7)

The car doesn't seem to be running right. You are barely making more horsepower than an E46 at the crank.

Maybe it's time to take all the mods off and have BMW check it out. An ECU tune might fix it, but it also might be something like fuel pressure or high leak down numbers from the bottom end (rings) or top end (valves) if the car is that weak.
__________________
M3 Sedan - AW/Black - 6MT - no moonroof - no folding seats - RAC RG63 - clear bra by Omega Werks
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 09:44 AM   #30
Bob MG
Moderating
Bob MG's Avatar
United Arab Emirates
72
Rep
1,883
Posts

 
Drives: like a muppet
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dubai

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post
Why does your torque curve look all funky with the tecnocraft stuff?
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 10:14 AM   #31
Singletrack
4th down; 4th quarter? Renegade.
Singletrack's Avatar
United_States
43
Rep
3,819
Posts

 
Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3; 12 AW X5d
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleEye CA View Post
looking at your pictures the dynos where done 2 months apart. 5 whp difference can be accounted for many different factors. Try dynoing the car stock, leave it on the rollers strapped the same exact way, put in the intake and then dyno.
Well, I would do that, with AFR, but there is still value in doing a dyno after the engine management has adapted. Fuel trims will be adjusted over time, so you could potentially show short term gains that dissapear as the ecu attempts to hit desired values. The opposite could also be true.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 01:10 PM   #32
EagleEye CA
Supreme Chancellor
0
Rep
81
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_LIN View Post
wait what? What axises is wrong in this picture?

Ed Lin

both your dyno before and after should line up where tq crosses over with the HP at 5252 rpm range. More importantly both those graphs should at least intersect at the same rpm range. Look at almost any dyno graph and you will see that they all cross over at 5252.

http://www.revsearch.com/dynamometer...orsepower.html
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 01:23 PM   #33
SpencerM3
Sauce
SpencerM3's Avatar
United_States
28
Rep
2,026
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 SSII E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (1)

Ed, I think I just missed you on Friday. I was at Gintani around 1pm, Alex said you lost some power, sucks to hear that. On the bright side, the full intake looks AMAZING and hopefully a tune can resolve this.
__________________
2009 E90 M3 | Silverstone II | Black Novillo | HRE P40's | Akrapovic Exhaust | Eibach Pro Kit | Jet Black Kidney Grilles | SSII Side Reflectors | SSII Side Gills | LUX H8 Angel Eyes | Macht Schnell Filter | Tecnocraft Envy Charge Pipe

"M3 drivers have no friends." - Jeremy Clarkson
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 02:02 PM   #34
Ca$hOnly
Major
Ca$hOnly's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
1,078
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In ur fridge, eatin ur foodz

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by smmmurf View Post
The car doesn't seem to be running right. You are barely making more horsepower than an E46 at the crank.

Maybe it's time to take all the mods off and have BMW check it out. An ECU tune might fix it, but it also might be something like fuel pressure or high leak down numbers from the bottom end (rings) or top end (valves) if the car is that weak.
The Gintani dyno is a really low reading dyno. I'm sure he'd be close to 340whp on a dynojet. Don't think there's anything wrong with his car other than the intake cost him 5whp.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 02:32 PM   #35
chungdae
The Asian Sensation
chungdae's Avatar
United_States
16
Rep
701
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 Alpine White M3, S1000RR
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miami, FL

iTrader: (2)

Very odd.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 02:43 PM   #36
xchosun1x
FNG
xchosun1x's Avatar
United_States
50
Rep
2,148
Posts

 
Drives: JZB 2008 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (9)

imo, you need to start getting some ecu tuning done to fine tune your A/F's. I really think once you do that your car will perform to the best of its ability with the given mods. If you plan on doing any other performance mods like a pulley or xpipes etc (assuming you don't have them already), do those mods before the tune...no point in paying to get tuned twice.

anyways, good luck..seriously. I know what it feels like to dump money and getting less than desired results.
I think its a simple equation....your letting more air in and freeing up the flow. Stock ecu can only correct timing and fuel to a degree. Getting a flash tune will help tremendously.

good luck and keep us posted
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 03:01 PM   #37
xchosun1x
FNG
xchosun1x's Avatar
United_States
50
Rep
2,148
Posts

 
Drives: JZB 2008 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (9)

honestly, i'd like to see the another car on a different dyno..before and after envy intake system
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 03:14 PM   #38
EagleEye CA
Supreme Chancellor
0
Rep
81
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post
They always have the axis correct. Perhaps they got forgot this time.
Perhaps they forgot to do it here as well then



Gintani has been in business long enough and prides themselves on proving power that their products make. I don't understand why they scale the numbers differently for their after mod runs.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 04:41 PM   #39
duk
///M
United_States
42
Rep
2,967
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 AW/FR 6MT E92
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (0)

i heard only the charge pipe makes most of the hp?

im not really feeling the yellowish CF against the black CF
__________________
2011 AW/FR 6MT E92 | Powered by Premier | Alekshop | ESS |
Rok n Peace Clothing: www.roknpeace.com

Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 06:51 PM   #40
masitr
Private First Class
masitr's Avatar
9
Rep
146
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NW Ohio

iTrader: (6)

The only time I have ever seen the curves not crossing @ 5252 is due to the scale being different on for HP and TQ. I can't explain is the one below and Eagleeye's don't cross at the same RPM on the different runs. Since both curves are in the same scale they should cross at the same rpm point and on those graph they don't. Is there something in the Dyno dynamics Software that does this? I have never seen this from any other dyno manufacturer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleEye CA View Post
Looks like this is off the axis too then



Not trying to start a conspiracy here, just noticed this myself and wondered why they do this to all their dynos. This was on the same day too no?

Last edited by masitr; 03-02-2010 at 06:58 PM.
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 07:16 PM   #41
smmmurf
Colonel
32
Rep
2,113
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 M3 Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pleasanton, CA

iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ca$hOnly View Post
The Gintani dyno is a really low reading dyno. I'm sure he'd be close to 340whp on a dynojet. Don't think there's anything wrong with his car other than the intake cost him 5whp.
True. However, his baseline was 310, which is pretty low even given the other dynos I've seen from Gintani. The intake loses power and/or his car is running very weak.
__________________
M3 Sedan - AW/Black - 6MT - no moonroof - no folding seats - RAC RG63 - clear bra by Omega Werks
Appreciate 0
      03-02-2010, 07:26 PM   #42
skoot3r
BMW n00b
skoot3r's Avatar
United_States
19
Rep
1,146
Posts

 
Drives: 09 e92 M3/ 2013 GMC 2500hd
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Jose

iTrader: (4)

Send a message via AIM to skoot3r
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_LIN View Post
Hey guys,

So here is the dyno results i promised. There's a good and bad about this dyno.

Let me first point out that, yes, this dyno maybe skewed because i did NOT dyno a stock dyno and an after dyno ON THE SAME DAY! yes i know it is NOT that accurate but imo, its good enough for me.

So, the bad. I LOST 5whp. Yes sir. LOST. SUCKS!!!! I had 310whp before. Now its dynoing about 305whp

Stock Dyno results:



Stock dyno thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337047

After Dyno results:



Videos:




Now the GOOD! Gintani was pretty puzzled by this as well so, Alex decided to pull out the A/F ratio while he was dyno'ing and his gut was right. YEAHHH for ALEX!! Stock A/F is 14.1 ish and now my A/F is around 12 ish:




Sooo, its fixable! PHEW!!! So, now the question is how much will this ENVY gain with a TUNE?!?! I dont think i can answer that question cause ill probably be getting a tune after my exhaust. i hope someone steps up and does it tho. Im guessing tecnocraft will

So yea, its not what i expected but meh! BUT!!! The WHOLE system looks SICK!!!!! I got the headlight covers and the left passenger cover as well.





Again, Thanks to ERIC@PYSPEED and KING@TECNOCRAFT for getting me these piece so quickly so i could have them this past weekend for WEKFEST!

Ed Lin
you forgot to leave me those covers over the headlights dude!
__________________
09 SpaceGray M3 DCT
Power: Dinan 3.62, Gintani Race Mufflers, Dinan Intake, Gintani Xpipe, RPi Scoops
Cosmetic: Vrs Poly-Lip, CSL Trunk, LED Interior Lights, LUX H8, Smoked Tails, Challenge Diffuser
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2010, 10:49 AM   #43
ersin
Brigadier General
ersin's Avatar
United_States
42
Rep
4,068
Posts

 
Drives: 08 IB E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (1)

The torque and hp curves intersect at 5252 rpm only when the torque is measured in ft-lbs and the power in horsepower.

I would be willing to bet that there is no power loss. I would say it is due to the fact that the two runs (pre and post intake install) were done on different days. So, what does the ole butt dyno tell you? Does it feel faster?
__________________

I've been assimilated. 6MT/ZPP/18"/PS extended.
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2010, 11:02 AM   #44
E92M3Guy
Second Lieutenant
3
Rep
202
Posts

 
Drives: Black E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Upland

iTrader: (0)

So he paid more than 2k for the system and end up not gaining one thing at all. The claims of the tecnocraft system with the intake alone was suppose to be +18 but that is with an aftermarket filter and not OEM filter. Now everything is enlarged to receive more air but nothing charges on the car but a loss of hp. How doesn't more air get in the car when the two places that receives air isn't increased at all? This isn't like a supercharger where it is forcing more air into the system.

Butt dyno doesn't do anything, but give you a placebo effect where the amount of money spent you feel it goes faster but it doesn't.

The system looks nice, but there is no function to it. The system rubs on the hood in various places and has gaps around the charge pipe (so you get unfiltered air into the motor), on top of that, there is discussions about why did tecnocraft drop the accordian looking piece and why other major players (Dinan / Gruppe M) that have been modifying bmws for a while kept it just like OEM and didn't change it.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:33 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST