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      02-19-2010, 10:43 AM   #23
RandyB
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Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
keeping my current car
Ditto that, bigtime!

Forever...
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      02-19-2010, 05:47 PM   #24
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What's the source of this info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The next generation M3 (called the F3x), like all generations of M3, will use a different motor from those before it, yes. All current chatter, including quotes from high ranking BMW officials, indeed suggests it will be a 6 cylinder motor with a turbo charger. You can all but take it to the bank at this point.

The 2012-2013 M3 will still be the E9x, and will still use the current V8. You can expect the F3x on the market in the US in late 2014 or early 2015 as a MY2015.

And yes, as FStop humorously () points out, there will very likley be no MY2014 M3 just as there was no MY2000 M3 and no MY2007 M3 (US model designations). However, there will still be a MY2012 and MY2013, its just that they'll still be an E9x with the V8 like I said above.
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      02-19-2010, 06:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3 View Post
Lemans, you cant just say that and stop there! Are you saying the engine will be so maxed out straight from the factory that there will not be much room for improvement? Or is BMW implementing something to limit aftermarket tuning?

Please elaborate!
Agree, either more detail or I call BS
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      02-19-2010, 06:55 PM   #26
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i love my v8 engine . i hope they dont drop to 6
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      02-19-2010, 06:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
LOL...there will be a few 'surprises' for the aftermarket tuners out there who will ATTEMPT to extract more power form the engine.


The look on their faces will be priceless!
Things that go BOOM????
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      02-19-2010, 07:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyoshi71 View Post
How can a V8 go back to a V6?
The world's gone Co2 crazy

and more crucially, in Europe, car manufacturers will be charged tax based on the average co2 emissions of their fleet. Cars like the m cars drastically raise their average co2 output average, and thus their tax.

BMW have already shown they have an excellent turbo 6 in the 335i. Expect the next M3 to use a similar engine with probably more horsepower than the outgoing M3, but lighter, more efficient and producing less Co2. BMW is an excellent innovater and you can bet the Next m3 engine will be superior in every way to the current one. Bar the v8 rumble which will be sadly missed

Also, the replacement for the 335i will be a turbocharged 2.0 4 cylinder.

And its already been confirmed the next M5 will use the 4.4 V8 Twin Turbo as found in the X5M and the X6M. It will be exactly the same engine.
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      02-19-2010, 08:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLOL View Post
BMW is an excellent innovater and you can bet the Next m3 engine will be superior in every way to the current one. Bar the v8 rumble which will be sadly missed

I don't know about superior. BMW has shown with the current N54 that just slapping on a couple of turbos to a very old block (E46) doesn't exactly produce the most reliable engine, and the power delivery of the N54 is certainly not M like. BMW is having to make many compromises these days for economy sake, emissions, and company survival. That's hardly a recipe for making the best engine they are capable of, especially in consideration to their ability to innovate. But I'm sure they'll come up with something. If the X5M and X6M are any indication, they are moving away from track orientation. M3s are typically homologated for racing. They'll have to be very careful with the engine formula to ensure it can still compete in current classes. Hopefully BMW won't break loose of their M3 racing heritage.

Last edited by MVF4Rrider; 02-19-2010 at 10:10 PM.
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      02-19-2010, 08:15 PM   #30
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i think in order to be competitive w/ P-cars and GTR, BMW going to go 3.9 I-6tt, powering the new Attessa/Vectoring/Super Hicas all-wheel-drive system. pushing 546hp w/ Chrono Trigger over boost for 10sec. 598hp. weighting in @ 4000lbs(more safety and luxury crap). 0-60 in 3.0sec. (think Panamera Turbo 0-60 in 3.2sec. 4300+lbs)
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      02-19-2010, 08:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVF4Rrider View Post
I don't know about superior.
We'll wait and see

On paper the new M5 Turbo V8 will be lighter, more fuel efficient, produce less Co2 and produces more torque and more horsepower. All still with a great V8 rumble.

I must admit however, the possibility for BMW to get the next M3 wrong is immense. Its always been BMWs most dynamic and most driver focused car. They've done all sorts of things they said they'd never do, like an X5M, and produce a turbocharged M car, so who knows what they will do next.

I do agree that BMW M cars will never be the same again now that they are no longer N/A. Fingers crossed they get it right
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      02-19-2010, 10:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini330zhp View Post
Things that go BOOM????
Nope, but BMW has learned quite a few lessons from all the tuning methods used on the 335i.

The next generation of engine management computers, will have a software operating systems that can detect any unauthorized (third-party)changes to the ECU programming. If it detects an attempt to change the values within the factory mapping tables, it will lock the ECU...and log that event into memory. (requiring you to make a trip to the dealer to unlock it. (where you will have some serious explaining to do)

The new ECU's will be able to recognize an encrypted "digital fingerprint", that will only be available on BMW factory-authorized software updates.
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      02-19-2010, 10:28 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Nope, but BMW has learned quite a few lessons from all the tuning methods used on the 335i.

The next generation of engine management computers, will have a software operating systems that can detect any unauthorized (third-party)changes to the ECU programming. If it detects an attempt to change the values within the factory mapping tables, it will lock the ECU...and log that event into memory. (requiring you to make a trip to the dealer to unlock it. (where you will have some serious explaining to do)

The new ECU's will be able to recognize an encrypted "digital fingerprint", that will only be available on BMW factory-authorized software updates.
Very interesting. Do the new X5M/6M and new N55 turbo powered cars have this new ECU?
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      02-19-2010, 10:31 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckistryke View Post
i think in order to be competitive w/ P-cars and GTR, BMW going to go 3.9 I-6tt, powering the new Attessa/Vectoring/Super Hicas all-wheel-drive system. pushing 546hp w/ Chrono Trigger over boost for 10sec. 598hp. weighting in @ 4000lbs(more safety and luxury crap). 0-60 in 3.0sec. (think Panamera Turbo 0-60 in 3.2sec. 4300+lbs)
Weight is an issue. Power spread is an issue. Peak power quotes are mostly meaningless for comparison purposes of any vehicle. All that counts is the power spread in relation to the force generated through the torque multiplication affect through gearing. That's what translates to acceleration and user ability. I think any M3 owner would understand peak torque doesn't tell the story of the car's true power. But car manufacturers rely on the market's ignorance. As they say, peak power sells cars, high average power wins races. One thing in common with all normally aspirated M cars to date has been peak power comes in the upper half of the rev range. For the next M3 to be successful, that has to hold true. That certainly isn't the case for the N54. I have no idea if that's the case for the X5M/X6M as I've never bothered to wonder about those two M trucks.
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      02-19-2010, 10:50 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
E93 M3 Mods:
- Two clutch pedals (one for each clutch) for better driver involvement
- BMW Automated Comfort Protection
- Ultimate Assist Monitor with Active Dynamics Control
- Advanced Apadtive Variable Vehicle Assistant
- Integrated High Intensity Technology Function
Such marvelous hilarious gibberish - I love it!

BTW, did you mean "Apadtive" or Adaptive? Wasn't able to find a definition for that one.
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      02-19-2010, 11:07 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavM3 View Post
Very interesting. Do the new X5M/6M and new N55 turbo powered cars have this new ECU?
I don't think it has the system I just described, since it's still in development. (for the new M5 & M6)

From what I am told, the current ECU in the 2 turbo SAV's does have a few "traps", that will severely restrict the performance of a piggyback or standalone ECU that is plugged into the vehicle. It also logs everything, including any attempt to increase the boost pressure of the turbos...
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      02-20-2010, 01:45 PM   #37
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      02-20-2010, 02:39 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
Yes, they will be going back to a V6. Just like the 2000 and 2007 M3 had in the USA.
are you referring to the 4 door and Wagon E46 M3?
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      02-20-2010, 02:53 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLOL View Post
On paper the new M5 Turbo V8 will be lighter, more fuel efficient, produce less Co2 and produces more torque and more horsepower. All still with a great V8 rumble.
I have never (nor will ever) owned a turbo/supercharged engine, but turbo V8 engines will always sound muffled compared to NA ones, even with loud exhausts. A S/C engine theoretically sounds the same as a NA one, but the awful (to me) supercharger whine kills it too. But yeah, they'll always make a ton more power, something I don't personally care for. Good day.
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      02-20-2010, 03:08 PM   #40
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I for one am very keen on seeing the new M5 with the intension of buying if it suits, needing more than 578BHP it will produce to me is pointless.
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      02-20-2010, 06:27 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
I have never (nor will ever) owned a turbo/supercharged engine, but turbo V8 engines will always sound muffled compared to NA ones, even with loud exhausts. A S/C engine theoretically sounds the same as a NA one, but the awful (to me) supercharger whine kills it too. But yeah, they'll always make a ton more power, something I don't personally care for. Good day.
I also hate the sound of a supercharger, no matter what kind of power the vehicle has.
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      02-20-2010, 10:41 PM   #42
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i highly doubt it will take until 2015 before we have the next gen M3. should be early 2014.
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      02-20-2010, 10:42 PM   #43
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wont be any changes til the 2014 model year M3... I do think that by 2012 fiscal year we wont be seeing an m3 (2013 model year)
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      02-20-2010, 10:58 PM   #44
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Isn't it true for turbo engine's torque curve to suddenly drop at high RPM, as opposed to NA HI REV M3 V8,- hp and torque increase with rpm?
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