BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
VF Engineering
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-17-2010, 12:01 PM   #1
Levi
Brigadier General
 
Levi's Avatar
 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

Posts: 3,246
iTrader: (0)

M3 Clubsport package?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Although a competition pack has been introduced for the M3 it is ineveitable that by 2012 2 years before the current car is replaced that a "Phase II" CS package will be available for the M3.
Do I understand properly? So there was M3, then before facelift there was the M3 Edition, with facelift there is M3 Competition, and before new M3 F30 there will be M3 Clubsport? Does it mean the M3 might get M3 GTS parts (brakes, coilovers, exhaust, seats, intaike) or even M3 GTS engine?
Levi is offline   Czech_Republic
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 11:12 AM   #2
VIP75344
Private
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver

Posts: 86
iTrader: (0)

Furthermore, is 2012 M3 Clubsport available in North America?
VIP75344 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 11:25 AM   #3
mkoesel
Moderator
 
Drives: 2015 Felt IA2
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

Posts: 13,676
iTrader: (1)

I assume those last questions are rhetorical since no one knows yet, but anything is possible. I am still skeptical of engine changes, but who knows. Exhaust and brakes are good possibilities. Coil-overs, seats and intake are unlikely, IMHO.
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
mkoesel is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 04:15 PM   #4
Levi
Brigadier General
 
Levi's Avatar
 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

Posts: 3,246
iTrader: (0)

Yesterday at the Auto Show in Geneva I spoke with some of BMW and they told me there will be a BMW Perormance CF Air Intake. I also spoke about Z4 M, and well, the way he answered me, I understood that "YES".

Last edited by Levi; 03-06-2010 at 04:51 PM.
Levi is offline   Czech_Republic
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 04:45 PM   #5
VIP75344
Private
 
Drives: E92 335i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver

Posts: 86
iTrader: (0)

so there will be M3 Clubsport for sure?
VIP75344 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 04:53 PM   #6
Levi
Brigadier General
 
Levi's Avatar
 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

Posts: 3,246
iTrader: (0)

Yes, if the M1 comes out and will be lighter and more powerfull than previously planned. So it will go from 350 hp to 380 hp maybe.
Levi is offline   Czech_Republic
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 04:59 PM   #7
aajami
Brigadier General
 
aajami's Avatar
 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

Posts: 4,014
iTrader: (4)

With all due respect to Levi, I think any talk of changes or introductions BMW will make to the E9x M3 in MY12 at this point is pure speculation. Case in point: Last week, the M1 was all but confirmed to come out later this year, but as of yesterday, that's no longer the case. Furthermore, the speculation regarding a power boost in '12 stemmed from the fact that the M1 was going to be uncomfortably close to the current M3 in terms of performance. With the M1 getting nerfed into a 135is, BMW retains a healthy performance gap between it and the M3. And any power to the E9x M3 might upset the 100+ people who paid through the nose for an M3 GTS, many of which probably won't be available for delivery until the MY12s start rolling out of the factory.

Let's put the brakes on rumors until we start hearing it from more reliable sources with more frequency.
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
aajami is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 05:26 PM   #8
Levi
Brigadier General
 
Levi's Avatar
 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

Posts: 3,246
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
And any power to the E9x M3 might upset the 100+ people who paid through the nose for an M3 GTS, many of which probably won't be available for delivery until the MY12s start rolling out of the factory.

Let's put the brakes on rumors until we start hearing it from more reliable sources with more frequency.
Yes, but do we know anything about the M3 GTS? I don't. Maybe it has 450 Hp and 500 Nm at 4.000-8.000 rpm and 400 Nm at 1.000 rpm? Maybe it wights 1.420 kg DIN? Maybe it accelerates from 0-100 km/h in 3,5 sec? Maybe it reaches 330 km/h? Maybe it runs 7:30 around the Ring? If it is so this car is a bargain compared to 911 GT3 RS, 911 Turbo S, Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera, Corvette ZR1, 458 Italia, LFA, GT-R......I do not see how can these owners be upset by an M3 Clubsport that would maybe run 7:50 on the Ring, but cost pretty much.
-68.350 € for M3
-72.650 € for M3 Competition
-80.000 € for M3 Clubsport
115.000 € for M3 GTS
102.590 € for M3 "fully loaded"

Last edited by Levi; 03-06-2010 at 05:38 PM.
Levi is offline   Czech_Republic
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 05:59 PM   #9
JC919
Lieutenant Colonel
 
JC919's Avatar
 
Drives: CSL
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Posts: 1,799
iTrader: (0)

Weird, I thought the GTS would fill the 'clubsport' role
__________________

2003 CSL, SG, Alcon BBK
2002 M5, SSII/Blk and bone stock. In storage back home in TX
2008 M3, AW/Blk 6MT, Akrapovic Evolution, Evosport Pulley, ESS Tune, Michelin PSS/Hoosier, other track stuff SOLD
JC919 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 07:13 PM   #10
MrLOL
Private First Class
 
Drives: An M3... one day !
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leeds, UK

Posts: 100
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC919 View Post
Weird, I thought the GTS would fill the 'clubsport' role
Well no

the e46 m3 CS (clubsport) was a halfway house between the regular M3 and the hardcore CSL.

the GTS is actually even more hardcore than the CSL, since its been marketed with a rollcageand fire extinguisher etc.. in all the press shots. They've clearly aimed it as a pure trackday machine, whereas the CSL was still designed with road use in mind.

the CS had the improvements in suspension, but without the need for the C.F. roof and carboard boot liner etc..

So the GTS isnt a replacement for the M3 CS.

But, read about what made the M3 CS different from the regular M3

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...50/bmw_m3.html

And the upgrades made available for the M3 CS had already been sold as ... The competition package.

Which is exactly what BMW have just announced in geneva. If BMW do an M3 Clubsport, it will just be an M3 with the competition package and maybe a BBK and the odd tweak here and there.

In exactly the same way BMW was worried about upsetting CSL owners, i can see them doing the same with the GTS owners and not releasing the 4.4 engine to the regular M3. RS5 or not.

Last edited by MrLOL; 03-06-2010 at 07:18 PM.
MrLOL is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 08:10 PM   #11
Pitkis
Second Lieutenant
 
Pitkis's Avatar
 
Drives: i8 2014
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampere, Finland

Posts: 222
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Yes, but do we know anything about the M3 GTS? I don't. Maybe it has 450 Hp and 500 Nm at 4.000-8.000 rpm and 400 Nm at 1.000 rpm? Maybe it wights 1.420 kg DIN? Maybe it accelerates from 0-100 km/h in 3,5 sec? Maybe it reaches 330 km/h? Maybe it runs 7:30 around the Ring?
GTS Ring time will be around 7:30-7:25 according to the lastest information. Remember E46 CSL with 7:50 time using almost 10 years old tire technology. MY 2011 GTS absolutely _should_ make 7:30 in order to achieve a reasonable result.

Ferrari 599XX is claimed to run Ring under 7:00, ordinary 599 GTB making about 7:47. That's figure to compare.
__________________
i8 2014 (PI, 625 wheels, Protonic Blue), X1 23d 2010, F30 320i xDrive 2013. Gone E60 530 xdA 2006, E92M3 2008, R53 Mini Cooper S 2006, F430 F1 2008
Pitkis is offline   Finland
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 08:29 PM   #12
ersin
Brigadier General
 
ersin's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 IB E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland

Posts: 4,069
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitkis View Post
GTS Ring time will be around 7:30-7:25 according to the lastest information. Remember E46 CSL with 7:50 time using almost 10 years old tire technology. MY 2011 GTS absolutely _should_ make 7:30 in order to achieve a reasonable result.

Ferrari 599XX is claimed to run Ring under 7:00, ordinary 599 GTB making about 7:47. That's figure to compare.
You sound pretty sure about the GTS time. Some more times (from Wikipedia) for comparison sake:

Porsche 911 GT2 7:32.02 (2008)
Porsche 911 Carrera GT 7:28.71
Nissan GTR -- 7:26.7
Chevy Corvette C6 ZR1 -- 7:26.4
Ferrari Enzo -- 7.25.3
Dodge Viper ACR -- 7:22.1

Levi,

I'd be interested to hear more about the Z4 M. If this is true then the M division has started singing a different tune of lately.
__________________

I've been assimilated. 6MT/ZPP/18"/PS extended.

Last edited by ersin; 03-07-2010 at 03:57 PM.
ersin is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 09:00 PM   #13
Alex@Autocouture
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Alex@Autocouture's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3, E92 Frozen GTS
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ny

Posts: 3,401
iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2011.75 E90 BMW M3  [3.83]
2011 bmw/ m3  [0.00]
I would b very interested in a z4m...
__________________
AUTOcouture Motoring | 15-01 Pollitt Drive St. 6, Fair Lawn NJ 07410
201.666.3500 | Alex@autocouturemotoring.com
Alex@Autocouture is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-06-2010, 09:04 PM   #14
aajami
Brigadier General
 
aajami's Avatar
 
Drives: Space Gray '09 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

Posts: 4,014
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLOL View Post
Well no

the e46 m3 CS (clubsport) was a halfway house between the regular M3 and the hardcore CSL.

the GTS is actually even more hardcore than the CSL, since its been marketed with a rollcageand fire extinguisher etc.. in all the press shots. They've clearly aimed it as a pure trackday machine, whereas the CSL was still designed with road use in mind.

the CS had the improvements in suspension, but without the need for the C.F. roof and carboard boot liner etc..

So the GTS isnt a replacement for the M3 CS.

But, read about what made the M3 CS different from the regular M3

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...50/bmw_m3.html

And the upgrades made available for the M3 CS had already been sold as ... The competition package.

Which is exactly what BMW have just announced in geneva. If BMW do an M3 Clubsport, it will just be an M3 with the competition package and maybe a BBK and the odd tweak here and there.

In exactly the same way BMW was worried about upsetting CSL owners, i can see them doing the same with the GTS owners and not releasing the 4.4 engine to the regular M3. RS5 or not.
The car in your link is the just the E46 M3 with the ZCP package. BMW already introduced the ZCP package for the E92 M3.
__________________
'09 E92 M3: Space Gray, Black, Carbon Leather | ZTP 2MK ZPP 2MT 6FL | link 1 / link 2
Mods: M Performance exhaust | ZCP retrofit | Euro airbox | GTS DCT flash | 240J ECU flash | LCI Euro taillights | CRT lip | OEM alarm retrofit | Space Gray bumper plugs | BMW Performance: Mk. II spoiler / Mk. II non-electronic steering wheel / mirror caps / front grilles / side gills / intake louvers / emblem
aajami is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2010, 05:41 AM   #15
Pitkis
Second Lieutenant
 
Pitkis's Avatar
 
Drives: i8 2014
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tampere, Finland

Posts: 222
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ersin View Post
You sound pretty sure about the GTS time. Some more times (from Wikipedia) for comparison sake:

Porsche 911 GT2 7:32.02 (2008)
Porsche 911 Carrera GT 7:28.71
Nissan GTR -- 7:26.7
Chevy Corvette C6 ZR1 -- 7:26.4
Ferrari Enzo -- 7.25.3
Dodge Viper ACR -- 7:22.1
Well, you have to hope for the best....

I am fully aware of times you mentioned. The figures are the best source to estimate GTS performance. Since the specs are still to be confirmed, final performance is of course unknown. BMW has been pulling out about 500 hp from the engine, but who knows what's the final power?

Some comparison:
Ferrari 599 GTB 7:47 - 599XX slightly under 7:00 (Source: Ferrari)
F430 F1 7:55 - F430 Scuderia 7:39
E46 M3 8:22 - E46 CSL 7:50
E92 M3 8:05 - E92 GTS 7:30

Agree? The difference between basic and GTS M3 is way much closer to 599 and 599XX than E46 M3 and E46 CSL. GTS is, as far as the information obtained from the reliable sources stands correct, a real racecar for the road. It costs double the price of original car and is not a "clubsport" version like F430 Scuderia that, even at 1/3 higher price than base car, cuts almost 20 seconds from Ring time.

So, I'd say that BMW has failed if GTS don't make Ring 7:35 or better. 7:30 sharp sounds like a good target and cutting that might slightly exceed expectations.
__________________
i8 2014 (PI, 625 wheels, Protonic Blue), X1 23d 2010, F30 320i xDrive 2013. Gone E60 530 xdA 2006, E92M3 2008, R53 Mini Cooper S 2006, F430 F1 2008
Pitkis is offline   Finland
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2010, 08:06 AM   #16
MrLOL
Private First Class
 
Drives: An M3... one day !
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leeds, UK

Posts: 100
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
The car in your link is the just the E46 M3 with the ZCP package. BMW already introduced the ZCP package for the E92 M3.
The car in my link was sold in the UK as the BMW M3 Clubsport or M3 CS

this is my point.

If you get a CS, it will just be a car with the ZCP package already added a few other bits and pieces. the "clubsport" has always been a "warmed up" m3 with minor tweaks, rather than a hardcore special edition like the GTS / CSL.

The OP is speculating that this "club sport pack" will mean GTS parts and maybe the 4.4 V8 out of the GTS. It just wont

it will just be the M3 with the cometition package and a few minor tweaks like the E46 M3 Clubsport was. I presume you never got it in the US ?

everything else they've done on the E92 M3, has mirrored the E46 (no front end refresh at the LCI for example) so i see no reason for them to break the trend now.
MrLOL is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2010, 10:24 AM   #17
Technic
Lieutenant General
 
Technic's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3, 2014 528i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

Posts: 10,988
iTrader: (17)

Garage List
2004 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLOL View Post
The car in my link was sold in the UK as the BMW M3 Clubsport or M3 CS
Clubsport in the UK = Competition Package in the USA

And the author of that old CS article was incorrect in stating that the CS -or even the CSL- wheels were forged. Both wheels were spun cast.

Unless BMWNA takes the Clubsport name as a distinct version (extra "racing" features) of the M3 in the USA then it will continue be the ZCP here in the USA.
Technic is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2010, 11:39 AM   #18
RandyB
Lieutenant Colonel
 
RandyB's Avatar
 
Drives: '03 330i, '09 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,504
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Yesterday at the Auto Show in Geneva I spoke with some of BMW and they told me there will be a BMW Performance CF Air Intake.
Nice! I hope they come through with this.
__________________
'09 E92 M3 6MT | Alpine White | Black Leather | EDC | CL Trim | 19s
'03 E46 330i 6MT | Electric Red | Black Leather | ZSP | Bi-Xenons
RandyB is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2010, 11:50 AM   #19
elp_jc
Brigadier General
 
Drives: .
Join Date: May 2008
Location: .

Posts: 4,910
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Furthermore, the speculation regarding a power boost in '12 stemmed from the fact that the M1 was going to be uncomfortably close to the current M3 in terms of performance.
Well, the M3 is 'uncomfortably close' to the M6 (or even better, by some accounts) in performance, so even if true that means nothing .
elp_jc is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2010, 11:57 AM   #20
BMWCadet
Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW E92 MR M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Fort Gordon, Georgia

Posts: 402
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLOL View Post
Well no

the e46 m3 CS (clubsport) was a halfway house between the regular M3 and the hardcore CSL.

the GTS is actually even more hardcore than the CSL, since its been marketed with a rollcageand fire extinguisher etc.. in all the press shots. They've clearly aimed it as a pure trackday machine, whereas the CSL was still designed with road use in mind.

the CS had the improvements in suspension, but without the need for the C.F. roof and carboard boot liner etc..

So the GTS isnt a replacement for the M3 CS.

But, read about what made the M3 CS different from the regular M3

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evoc...50/bmw_m3.html

And the upgrades made available for the M3 CS had already been sold as ... The competition package.

Which is exactly what BMW have just announced in geneva. If BMW do an M3 Clubsport, it will just be an M3 with the competition package and maybe a BBK and the odd tweak here and there.

In exactly the same way BMW was worried about upsetting CSL owners, i can see them doing the same with the GTS owners and not releasing the 4.4 engine to the regular M3. RS5 or not.
The GTS isn't only about the 4.4l engine. If BMW wants to reenergize M3 sales, they replace the 4.0l. If not, then this generation will end rather quietly because no one's knocking down doors to buy whats out there right now.

Also people need to stop living as if its the year 2002. The competition has caught up. Straightline or not, people are going the C63 route because it has a lot more power and 90% of the owners out there will never take their cars to the track anyway so straightline performance is all that matters to them.

If they released the 4.4l engine, i'd be at the dealer the next day and i'm sure i'm not the only one. Yeah, there will be a lot of angry owners, but so what? Its a business and businesses are hurting right now.
BMWCadet is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2010, 11:59 AM   #21
Levi
Brigadier General
 
Levi's Avatar
 
Drives: Alfa Romeo
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Prague

Posts: 3,246
iTrader: (0)

Whatever, the good thing is that BMW M is cooking something very delicious, including the M3 GTS.
Levi is offline   Czech_Republic
0
Reply With Quote
      03-07-2010, 01:35 PM   #22
duk
///M
 
Drives: 2011 AW/FR 6MT E92
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Jose, CA

Posts: 2,944
iTrader: (0)

What I think will happen is no clubsport, M division will invest resources in the next M3 and intro that asap, prob 2013. They want to be greener and leaner to match other car makers.
__________________
2011 AW/FR 6MT E92 | Powered by Premier | Alekshop | ESS |
Rok n Peace Clothing: www.roknpeace.com

duk is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
clubsport, competition package, gts, package

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST