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      01-28-2010, 03:40 PM   #23
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I will address your question based on what I have read in your opening post. You want to know which is best suited to you between the F430, GT3, R8 and GTR.

Well the answer is simple and for one reason, you disliked the behaviour you get with the 997C2S, much preferring the behavior of the Cayman, well that leaves one car ..... R8v8.

It the only one which is as good as the others when it comes to outright cornering and handling ability yet it's as much a pussy cat as a Cayman is, something that can't be said for the rest. Though frankly I would look for a R8v10 secondhand if one became available.

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      01-28-2010, 04:49 PM   #24
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By the way, have you ever sat in a Ferarri or heard one up close. Well, a buddy of mine owns an F360 Spyder and let me tell you, it is sensory overload to sit in that car. The sound, the leather, the stitching, the beauty...what a machine! The F430 is even more orgasmic.

Nothing has the passion or heritage of a Ferrari....not even the Porsche.

- The Audi is nice..but no passion.

- The Porsche is amazing but no passion and is not as exotic.

- The GTR is a badass car but obviously doesn't have the pedigree of a Porsche or a Ferrari.

Go for the Ferrari man! The maintenance sucks, everyone looks at you when you drive and you can't drive it everywhere. However, when you do drive it, you will be driving one of the baddest cars on the planet...in terms of beauty, performance and exotic factor.

-SZ
porsche no passion? i agree with the audi and gtr statement, but come on now....

F430 hands down....its a beautiful work of art
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      01-28-2010, 06:24 PM   #25
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You're seriously contemplating an F430 vs a Porsche GT3RS? One is an exotic and one is not. One has lines, character, and an engine note to die for and makes your heart beat to the point where its coming out your chest and and other looks like a run of the mill 911 with a wing and a roll cage albeit with a nice exhaust note.

If this is a street car 75% of the time or more, get the 430.

If you are serious about tracking, get the RS
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      01-28-2010, 06:30 PM   #26
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You're seriously contemplating an F430 vs a Porsche GT3? One is an exotic and one is not.
One is a plain fortune in up keep and the other is just plain expensive. Knowing how reliable (cough, cough) Ferraris are I know out of these two which one I would buy.
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      01-28-2010, 06:34 PM   #27
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One is a plain fortune in up keep and the other is just plain expensive. Knowing how reliable (cough, cough) Ferraris are I know out of these two which one I would buy.
I don't doubt your opinion on Ferrari reliability but I know of no one that drives a 430 as a DD so the mileage, upkeep, repair bills should be minimal for the subject 430 in question.

Sorry but everytime I see a GTRS on the street, it screams boy racer to me and those decals are hideous. On the track, there may be none any better "out of the box"...save for a ZR1.
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      01-28-2010, 09:58 PM   #28
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I'm always curious as to why people ask these sort of questions.

I think they already know the answer themselves, regardless.

imho, the only answer is what you truly and honestly would like to drive and live with for a part of your life. And can afford to feed and keep healthy (and really want to spend.) Otherwise it's like shopping for D&G or John Lobb or IWC or Patek Philippe just because.

fwiw, I know someone who is very familiar with Ferrari (as on owner and mechanic.) He's no boy racer wannabe. He designs and builds one of the most popular set of exhausts for Porsche owners (he owns Porsches, too.) Here's his DIY website: http://www.p-car.com/

He's realistic about ownership and isn't concerned with brand names. He calls his Ferrari the "drama queen."

Here's a direct comment from him: "They are the biggest over priced piece of shit cars in the world." Honestly, I'm not making that up. Do your own research on Ferrari maintenance and repair.

Here's a pic of him doing a clutch replacement for an owner of a 360. The 430 is no better. They like to eat parts.

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      01-28-2010, 10:41 PM   #29
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i dont think ppl really understand the costs of running a ferrari. they tend to be finicky and most individuals dont have the wherewithall to maintain it themselves. which is honestly makes me wary of a lot of used examples since i doubt many of them were properly maintained (im imagining a lot of ppl dumping them when something goes wrong b/c they cant afford anything past the initial price). ppl complain about couple hundred dollar services, ferrari's run 10x that, and fairly common issues like the f1 clutch issues or headers run 5k to fix. anyways i'd go with the r8, nice enough with reasonable operating costs
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      01-28-2010, 11:53 PM   #30
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My wife - who is my resident and just walked in - said " for that much she would let me have a girlfriend for a year" if I am having midlife crisis.
Very tempting I have to say!
I venture to say that it'll cost you much more than a F430 in the end, about half of everything you own.
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      01-29-2010, 12:01 AM   #31
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like alms said. I wouldn't go with the new gt3 rs. it is too boy racer to be driven on the street. the old 997.1 gt3 rs is a bit less boy racer IMO.

used r8 v10 is the way to go.
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      01-29-2010, 12:38 AM   #32
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I'm always curious as to why people ask these sort of questions.

I think they already know the answer themselves, regardless.

imho, the only answer is what you truly and honestly would like to drive and live with for a part of your life. And can afford to feed and keep healthy (and really want to spend.) Otherwise it's like shopping for D&G or John Lobb or IWC or Patek Philippe just because.

fwiw, I know someone who is very familiar with Ferrari (as on owner and mechanic.) He's no boy racer wannabe. He designs and builds one of the most popular set of exhausts for Porsche owners (he owns Porsches, too.) Here's his DIY website: http://www.p-car.com/

He's realistic about ownership and isn't concerned with brand names. He calls his Ferrari the "drama queen."

Here's a direct comment from him: "They are the biggest over priced piece of shit cars in the world." Honestly, I'm not making that up. Do your own research on Ferrari maintenance and repair.

Here's a pic of him doing a clutch replacement for an owner of a 360. The 430 is no better. They like to eat parts.

that is very subjective....most people who can afford them, dont know "how" to drive them...i also know a ferrari dealer/mechanic(owns a small dealership/shop) who would say the exact opposite, he also has experience with lamborghini, alfa romeos, pretty much everything euro
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      01-29-2010, 01:49 AM   #33
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that is very subjective....most people who can afford them, dont know "how" to drive them...i also know a ferrari dealer/mechanic(owns a small dealership/shop) who would say the exact opposite, he also has experience with lamborghini, alfa romeos, pretty much everything euro
Exactly, that's why I said: fwiw.

Your friend also wouldn't argue what it costs to replace a clutch. Or do an oil change. Although air in the tires you can do for free at a gas station.

p.s., let's not forget that the OP is thinking of a used one and isn't quite sure of his finances due to taxes. Not a perfect recipe for a blissful and painless experience, imho.
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      01-29-2010, 02:20 AM   #34
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Stickpaws,

It seems we are the only ones with a level head here. There is a formula I have always used when either buying cars or advising others and that is if you can't afford to buy them new with money to share then you also can't afford to own them secondhand either. This formula works for German brands like Porsche but it's doubly important for Italian exotics.
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      01-29-2010, 10:51 AM   #35
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Seeing as Ive pretty much had all those cars and have 2 currently in the garage, Im going to say this. If you are driving on the street, maybe you should check out the GT-R. Its heavy weight really doesnt prevail until you take it to the track. However, the ferrari blows my mind with its quality. Dont forget the maintenance costs. Audi R8 V8 is alright, but the V10 is the way the car should have been made from the start. GT3 doesnt sound like the car for you. It can be pretty brutal.

I say, F430, or GT-R. All depends if your Nissan dealer is nice or a bunch of douche bags like mine was.
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      01-29-2010, 03:51 PM   #36
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Thanks Guys,

I was planning to buy something within a year but not within a month and the Ferrari was never on my list. By the way i got the F430 document faxed to me an it is not a 2007 but a 2005 car??!! Two prior owner.

I dont know. It does not sounds such a good deal any more.
My original idea was something more for the track. Since the M3 is an excellent DD.
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      01-29-2010, 04:02 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickypaws View Post
I'm always curious as to why people ask these sort of questions.

I think they already know the answer themselves, regardless.

imho, the only answer is what you truly and honestly would like to drive and live with for a part of your life. And can afford to feed and keep healthy (and really want to spend.) Otherwise it's like shopping for D&G or John Lobb or IWC or Patek Philippe just because.

fwiw, I know someone who is very familiar with Ferrari (as on owner and mechanic.) He's no boy racer wannabe. He designs and builds one of the most popular set of exhausts for Porsche owners (he owns Porsches, too.) Here's his DIY website: http://www.p-car.com/
He's realistic about ownership and isn't concerned with brand names. He calls his Ferrari the "drama queen."

Here's a direct comment from him: "They are the biggest over priced piece of shit cars in the world." Honestly, I'm not making that up. Do your own research on Ferrari maintenance and repair.

Here's a pic of him doing a clutch replacement for an owner of a 360. The 430 is no better. They like to eat parts.

I asked this question because I was presented with a potentially excellent deal on a car I did not have prior experience with and could not find a reliable Ferrari forum yesterday.
I asked more to get an idea how these cars compare than "which one you choose".
I had a list of 4 cars I was considering as my next sport car, Audi R8, GT3 or GT3rs, GT-R, and the Corvette ZR-1. I eliminated the corvette after test driving the Z0-6. Don't ask why. It basically felt less special than the M3.

Anyway, thanks for the input!!
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      01-29-2010, 04:48 PM   #38
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You can get a new 2010 GT3RS for $130-135K the base is $133K if you do not add anything you can get the car $130K out of the door! Just call or email porsche dealerships and make them fight for your business. They will go below MSRP a few grand!
Its called a mark up, none of the 7.2 RSs will go for anywhere around $135k. Plus, most of the car coming to the US have already been allocated, so good luck trying to get one in the first place. A 7.2 GT3 is very much achievable though.
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      01-29-2010, 05:34 PM   #39
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Its called a mark up, none of the 7.2 RSs will go for anywhere around $135k. Plus, most of the car coming to the US have already been allocated, so good luck trying to get one in the first place. A 7.2 GT3 is very much achievable though.
Yep.
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      01-29-2010, 10:21 PM   #40
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There is a formula I have always used when either buying cars or advising others and that is if you can't afford to buy them new with money to share then you also can't afford to own them secondhand either. This formula works for German brands like Porsche but it's doubly important for Italian exotics.
...and I'd add to that formula a common thought among level-headed track nuts: if you can't afford to drive it off a cliff, don't take it to the track.

Track rash on any of those cars is going to be costly. Most insurance companies have wised up and don't cover damage on a race track.

If you're really serious about the track, and improving your skills, get a dedicated track car. You don't need a faster car to go faster. A good driver in an M3 will turn faster laps than an average driver in a GT3 or Ferrari. A track habit is an expensive one, so keep money aside for the consumables like tires, brakes and frequent fluid changes/maintenance.

If you just go to the track occasionally, then why not just keep tracking your M3 (although IMO it's too expensive and heavy to be on a track but that's just me!)
Then get something exotic for your weekend car. If I had an F430 (do have a 997 GT3) I would take it out for a few laps of course, but it wouldn't be my "track car"!

If you're spinning Porsches, consider that a challenge. You don't need a faster car You can have as much fun in a well set-up S2000 and still turn faster laps than GT3s, Vipers, Ferraris and M3s... I have!

BTW I'd go for the Ferrari! But decide what you really want to do with the car, what your track goals really are, and the financial risks in doing so.

my .03.... Peace.
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      01-29-2010, 11:40 PM   #41
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...and I'd add to that formula a common thought among level-headed track nuts: if you can't afford to drive it off a cliff, don't take it to the track.

Track rash on any of those cars is going to be costly. Most insurance companies have wised up and don't cover damage on a race track.

If you're really serious about the track, and improving your skills, get a dedicated track car. You don't need a faster car to go faster. A good driver in an M3 will turn faster laps than an average driver in a GT3 or Ferrari. A track habit is an expensive one, so keep money aside for the consumables like tires, brakes and frequent fluid changes/maintenance.

If you just go to the track occasionally, then why not just keep tracking your M3 (although IMO it's too expensive and heavy to be on a track but that's just me!)
Then get something exotic for your weekend car. If I had an F430 (do have a 997 GT3) I would take it out for a few laps of course, but it wouldn't be my "track car"!

If you're spinning Porsches, consider that a challenge. You don't need a faster car You can have as much fun in a well set-up S2000 and still turn faster laps than GT3s, Vipers, Ferraris and M3s... I have!

BTW I'd go for the Ferrari! But decide what you really want to do with the car, what your track goals really are, and the financial risks in doing so.

my .03.... Peace.
This is a really great reminder and reality check. It should be brought up more often.

Unless you have gobs of money you will not be taking an expensive car to the track. It's expensive and risky and as HD just mentioned, your insurance will not cover you (unless you purchase special event insurance each time.)

Running the car around the track once or twice to see how it behaves is fine; I've done it with my AMG at PCA events. But the car is my DD and I really don't want to trash it.

Oil changes, brake fluid changes, brake wear, and tires are expenses that add up super fast. And on an exotic or expensive car it can be a lot. And spinning a pricey car would be no fun; it'll happen and you could do some major damage.

I thought of selling my 993 for a new GT3 (see my old posts with Devo) but I realized the car (for me) was more oriented for the track and not the street and there was no way I can afford to risk destroying a car like that at the track. In the end it was too much of a car and too expensive for real world street use for me. I just felt it was overkill. The 993 isn't as big a deal financially to use at the track once in a while in controlled club events.

And as HD says, less expensive cars are perfect for track use. Only a very small percentage of people here are at the track every week (I only do club DEs and AXs) but from the sound of some of these threads you'd think everyone were all Shumis and Rosbergs. Learning a particular track takes time (and money) and one can reap great benefits in advancing their driving skills with much, much lesser cars. In fact, it's encouraged by most instructors.

And if you enjoy it and have the time and money, then get something to dedicate only for the track and rip out the weight, etc.. I have an E46 330i that's a good candidate to turn into a track only car. It would be perfect for me.

Otherwise I say just buy a car that's fun to own, that you like to look at, and is not a PITA to drive on the street (there's a real world out there of traffic and shitty drivers and potholed roads.) Don't get something that will drain your pocket book just because it's cool to have one. It's only about enjoyment for yourself and nothing else. And anyway, you'll be selling it in a couple of years for something else that strikes your fancy. It never ends
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      01-30-2010, 01:35 AM   #42
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Good advice, stickypaws. Nice collection you have too!
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      01-30-2010, 02:44 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
...and I'd add to that formula a common thought among level-headed track nuts: if you can't afford to drive it off a cliff, don't take it to the track.

Track rash on any of those cars is going to be costly. Most insurance companies have wised up and don't cover damage on a race track.

If you're really serious about the track, and improving your skills, get a dedicated track car. You don't need a faster car to go faster. A good driver in an M3 will turn faster laps than an average driver in a GT3 or Ferrari. A track habit is an expensive one, so keep money aside for the consumables like tires, brakes and frequent fluid changes/maintenance.

If you just go to the track occasionally, then why not just keep tracking your M3 (although IMO it's too expensive and heavy to be on a track but that's just me!)
Then get something exotic for your weekend car. If I had an F430 (do have a 997 GT3) I would take it out for a few laps of course, but it wouldn't be my "track car"!

If you're spinning Porsches, consider that a challenge. You don't need a faster car You can have as much fun in a well set-up S2000 and still turn faster laps than GT3s, Vipers, Ferraris and M3s... I have!

BTW I'd go for the Ferrari! But decide what you really want to do with the car, what your track goals really are, and the financial risks in doing so.

my .03.... Peace.
You are totally right about trackdays, and from experience it's not always your own driving skills you have to worry about when crashing your car, occasionally some other looper might take you out.

A short time ago on the e90 section someone ask the best starter trackday car and I came up with the Mazda MX5 (you call it something difference), simply because it's rwd (i.e. fun), light and relatively slow so that it will cause you to be smooth and maintain as much speed through the corners to keep up so that when you up the car you have already honed your skills.
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      01-30-2010, 10:36 AM   #44
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I do not want to come through here as a moron with a bunch of money. $130K is a BIG sum for me, especially before knowing how much tax I need to pay this year. I am somewhat old fashioned financially - don't like to finance anything. (started inthe US 12 years ago with $21,000 / year pretax. (Still saved 30% of my income!) Anyway i do not want to lecture anyone either.
Having money does not excuse one from fiscal responsibility. Being fully aware of the operating costs is an important consideration in determining the value of the purchase.

Maybe a GT-R would be the best track car, cheapest among your options and fast as hell.
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