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      01-29-2010, 08:48 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
There are a lot of changes coming from BMW starting this March...

Link to all these changes for the 2011 models (including the M3) in the "official" BMW press release:

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/press...tem=node__2222

The 2011 M3 Competition Package is mentioned near the bottom of the page.

Just to refresh your memory...
Mark did a neat summary on all 2011 changes here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345653

The press release on the M3 is part of the first post either.


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      01-29-2010, 08:54 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
Let me guess, Google translator?
Yep.

Any comment on the discussion above, south? I.e. does the competition package include EDC?
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      01-29-2010, 09:03 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Yep.

Any comment on the discussion above, south? I.e. does the competition package include EDC?
I think it does include EDC. Both the wording in the German pricelist and the U.K. configurator say so. After some more thought, I doubt that there's a difference in the content of this package between ECE and US.

This leads me to think of two possible ways they could handle the ZCP in the US: Either the ZTP is mandatory to get ZCP, or the revised DSC setting is only part of the ZCP when ZTP is ordered also. Like you, I doubt they'd offer a revised DSC setting without M Drive.

Anyway, it can't be that much longer until the order guides for the MY 2011 will be available.


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      01-29-2010, 09:05 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Well I have here the German pricelist from Bimmertoday.
http://www.bimmertoday.de/wp-content...nd_03_2010.pdf

So for M3 no LED Headlights, no Alcantara polstery and no matt paint. I do not see the point of Competition package.
How is the M3 more trackable?

As for BMW Performance parts, there are only CF mirrors.
You are complaining about a "Competition Package" that doesn't include cosmetic changes.

FAIL.

Granted, it's not a huge performance improvement, but it is an improvement.
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      01-29-2010, 09:27 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I think it does include EDC. Both the wording in the German pricelist and the U.K. configurator say so. After some more thought, I doubt that there's a difference in the content of this package between ECE and US.
Gotcha. Just one thing though...

In coutries that do not have ZTP, it makes much more sense for the package to include EDC. This is because, as you well know, it is possible to get MDrive as a stand alone option (albeit one that requires IDrive) in such countries. In the US we have no such option.

Quote:
This leads me to think of two possible ways they could handle the ZCP in the US: Either the ZTP is mandatory to get ZCP, or the revised DSC setting is only part of the ZCP when ZTP is ordered also. Like you, I doubt they'd offer a revised DSC setting without M Drive.
You make a very good point with the latter possibility.

Like you say, we should know soon.
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      01-29-2010, 09:36 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I think it does include EDC. Both the wording in the German pricelist and the U.K. configurator say so. After some more thought, I doubt that there's a difference in the content of this package between ECE and US.

This leads me to think of two possible ways they could handle the ZCP in the US: Either the ZTP is mandatory to get ZCP, or the revised DSC setting is only part of the ZCP when ZTP is ordered also. Like you, I doubt they'd offer a revised DSC setting without M Drive.

Anyway, it can't be that much longer until the order guides for the MY 2011 will be available.


Best regards,
south
I'm almost sure that both options have to be ticked. Audi do something similar with certain items that work along side it's Audi Select Drive system. Frankly I think it's a small price to pay to get the kind of handling enhancements that the competition pack will bring.
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      01-29-2010, 09:56 AM   #95
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I'm definitely going to pick up the springs. I wanted to close the gap a hair but didn't want to give up the OEM ride.

Kinda sucks for Dinan though. Same drop that they're offering but 100% OEM and WAAAAAAAY less expensive.

I wonder if I can get the dealer to flash the new EDC program??
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      01-29-2010, 11:30 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
I believe they are cast, but Mark's M has indicated that they could be lighter than our 19" forged wheels. Mark, if you're out there, can you shed some light on the weight issue?
Hey aajami....your info and those of the other guys is correct....cast & flow formed. Weight information is not being released yet but the GTS release info was pretty specific when it spoke to "lightweight".

Having said that, and with the weights of the forged OEM 220M 19's being 23.5 and 25.5 lbs front to rear respectively, I'm going to guess that BMW's interpretation of "lightweight cast" is going to come in around 22.5 lbs front and 24.5 lbs rear, plus or minus a little bit and keeping in mind the 359's are 1/2 inch wider (= not as much weight loss as I'd like).

The group buy RAC's (approx 20/21 lbs front to rear) and some other wheels are significantly lighter but they're forged and very expensive (but worth it IMO).

We'll see. I'll have a bit more info next week. There's 1 tiny, little thing that I'm waiting for to be priced before my car is officially official and gets production status (tentatively the 1st week of May, fingers are crossed). My Comp. Package is definately confirmed though, no issues with that one.

And here in Canada anyways, I have to get M-Drive and EDC to get the Comp. Package. Which I figured.

At the end of the day, this is all TOO MUCH!! I want my car

Regards - Mark
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      01-29-2010, 11:33 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark's M View Post
Hey aajami....your info and those of the other guys is correct....cast & flow formed. Weight information is not being released yet but the GTS release info was pretty specific when it spoke to "lightweight".

Having said that, and with the weights of the forged OEM 220M 19's being 23.5 and 25.5 lbs front to rear respectively, I'm going to guess that BMW's interpretation of "lightweight cast" is going to come in around 22.5 lbs front and 24.5 lbs rear, plus or minus a little bit and keeping in mind the 359's are 1/2 inch wider (= not as much weight loss as I'd like).

The group buy RAC's (approx 20/21 lbs front to rear) and some other wheels are significantly lighter but they're forged and very expensive (but worth it IMO).

We'll see. I'll have a bit more info next week. There's 1 tiny, little thing that I'm waiting for to be priced before my car is officially official and gets production status (tentatively the 1st week of May, fingers are crossed). My Comp. Package is definately confirmed though, no issues with that one.

And here in Canada anyways, I have to get M-Drive and EDC to get the Comp. Package. Which I figured.

At the end of the day, this is all TOO MUCH!! I want my car

Regards - Mark
Hey Mark,

I plan to be in Ontario this summer if everything works out..... it would be great to hook up and compare M's
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      01-29-2010, 11:40 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Hey Mark,

I plan to be in Ontario this summer if everything works out..... it would be great to hook up and compare M's
Absolutely, just let me know when the time comes!!
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      01-29-2010, 11:52 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark's M View Post
And here in Canada anyways, I have to get M-Drive and EDC to get the Comp. Package. Which I figured.

At the end of the day, this is all TOO MUCH!! I want my car

Thanks for that bit of info, Mark.

I wish you a quick turnaround on your order!
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      01-29-2010, 12:36 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I think it does include EDC. Both the wording in the German pricelist and the U.K. configurator say so. After some more thought, I doubt that there's a difference in the content of this package between ECE and US.

This leads me to think of two possible ways they could handle the ZCP in the US: Either the ZTP is mandatory to get ZCP, or the revised DSC setting is only part of the ZCP when ZTP is ordered also. Like you, I doubt they'd offer a revised DSC setting without M Drive.

Anyway, it can't be that much longer until the order guides for the MY 2011 will be available.


Best regards,
south

South,

The "enhanced" EDC system is required on the new Competition package cars.

BMW did this to improve the overall performance of the new suspension on the car.

Despite what you all may be thinking, the 10mm lower suspension is not just a set of lowering springs.

It includes new shocks, struts, and springs. It's an entirely new suspension setup. (with stiffer spring rates, and revised compression & rebound values)

EDC is application dependent, so when BMW revised the suspension...the new enhanced EDC system (and DSC changes)were mandatory.

BMW can still choose to sell the Competition Package in the U.S. without EDC at all, although I doubt this will happen. I can't see BMW offering us two different versions of the Competition Package either. We usually get one option here, or no option at all.

Smart money is on the Competition Package + EDC, as the only option for 2011 U.S.-spec M3's.
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      01-29-2010, 12:53 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
The "enhanced" EDC system is required on the new Competition package cars.

...

Smart money is on the Competition Package + EDC, as the only option for 2011 U.S.-spec M3's.
Thanks LMB, but that still doesn't fully explain things, unless I am just being daft.

South (nor I, nor anyone, I think) wasn't suggesting that it would be possible to decouple EDC from the competition package. Rather, the questions surround the supposed remapped DSC. Particularly, does the remapped DSC refer to a new MDM thereby meaning ZCP requires MDM? And if so, does this mean that ZCP requires MDrive outside of US and ZTP in the US, or is there some new MDM feature that operates without MDrive (a new 3-state button on the console, for example)? And if not, does this mean that ZCP (and/or 7MA) actually include EDC in their feature list and pricing (or is it merely a required additional option)?
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      01-29-2010, 01:07 PM   #102
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From the 2011 ordering guide (attached, credit to 3aholic@bf), I don't see ZCP requiring MDM (which is in ZTP).

ZCP Competition Package
223 Electronic Damping Control
7MA Competition package
19" M Light-alloy wheels w/perf. tires
Lowered suspension (-10 mm)
Sport mapping for EDC/DSC
Attached Images
File Type: pdf MY11OnlineOrderingSpecs-1.pdf (215.5 KB, 144 views)
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      01-29-2010, 01:22 PM   #103
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So lame...BMW fail. My next car will be a Porsche for sure
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      01-29-2010, 01:23 PM   #104
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Nice, outie - thanks for posting. Looks like you scooped even Bimmerpost with that one. Was that a Bimmefile find?

So, both ZCP and ZTP include EDC indeed. That will need some clarification, but it seems that the ZTP package will now come in two flavors (prices) - with and without ZCP. Unless I am missing something.

In other words, ZCP is 7MA + EDC. I guess in Europe, 7MA merely requires EDC (7MA doesn't include EDC in price)?

Also, I guess the remapped DSC really was just to accomodate the 359M, and there really is no new DSC mode with ZCP. Anyway, good call on all you guys who guessed it. My hunch was wrong.

Edit: Wait a minute! It does say "sport mapping for EDC/DSC" there. Could it be that you can now engage a third DSC program from the console button as I had hoped? If so I am officially a little jealous - just a little. However, no ZCP package on the verts anyway. Or maybe DSC OFF is now even more... OFF? Or, maybe DSC ON is, well, a little less ON? LOL?
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Last edited by mkoesel; 01-29-2010 at 01:32 PM.
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      01-29-2010, 01:41 PM   #105
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I tried to get my 2010 Individual Coupe build switched to 2011 so I could add this package but it's too late. It looks like my car will be one of the last 2010s as it gets built the last week of February.

Gonna put the savings towards a set of BBS.
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      01-29-2010, 02:05 PM   #106
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by outie View Post
From the 2011 ordering guide (attached, credit to 3aholic@bf), I don't see ZCP requiring MDM (which is in ZTP).

ZCP Competition Package
223 Electronic Damping Control
7MA Competition package
19" M Light-alloy wheels w/perf. tires
Lowered suspension (-10 mm)
Sport mapping for EDC/DSC
Did anyone else notice that the M3 Sedan IS offered with the Competition package???
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      01-29-2010, 02:07 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
South,

The "enhanced" EDC system is required on the new Competition package cars.

BMW did this to improve the overall performance of the new suspension on the car.

Despite what you all may be thinking, the 10mm lower suspension is not just a set of lowering springs.

It includes new shocks, struts, and springs. It's an entirely new suspension setup. (with stiffer spring rates, and revised compression & rebound values)

EDC is application dependent, so when BMW revised the suspension...the new enhanced EDC system (and DSC changes)were mandatory.

BMW can still choose to sell the Competition Package in the U.S. without EDC at all, although I doubt this will happen. I can't see BMW offering us two different versions of the Competition Package either. We usually get one option here, or no option at all.

Smart money is on the Competition Package + EDC, as the only option for 2011 U.S.-spec M3's.
I for one never doubted that it was the exact same suspension setup with just a few tweaks here and here. Unlike most here I know how successful the changes will make the car, simply because I know why they have been made and what stiff competition it will soon be facing. For anyone considering an M3 that hasn't already placed their order should seriously consider this option because the difference will be noticeable.
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      01-29-2010, 02:08 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Nice, outie - thanks for posting. Looks like you scooped even Bimmerpost with that one. Was that a Bimmefile find?

So, both ZCP and ZTP include EDC indeed. That will need some clarification, but it seems that the ZTP package will now come in two flavors (prices) - with and without ZCP. Unless I am missing something.

In other words, ZCP is 7MA + EDC. I guess in Europe, 7MA merely requires EDC (7MA doesn't include EDC in price)?

Also, I guess the remapped DSC really was just to accomodate the 359M, and there really is no new DSC mode with ZCP. Anyway, good call on all you guys who guessed it. My hunch was wrong.

Edit: Wait a minute! It does say "sport mapping for EDC/DSC" there. Could it be that you can now engage a third DSC program from the console button as I had hoped? If so I am officially a little jealous - just a litte. However, no ZCP package on the verts anyway.
mkoesel,

On the Competition Package cars, the revised EDC programing, the revised DSC settings, and the 10mm lowered suspension are designed to work as a complete system.

You cannot subtract one of those components from the mix, since they all need to work together in order to deliver the improved handling performance the Competition Package provides.

The revisions to the EDC were necessary since the lower suspension uses new hardware components. (vs. a non-Competition Package M3), and the DSC system needed to be revised as well, so it wouldn't unnecessarily cut the fun short when the car was being pushed to it's limits. (on the track)

In other words, the DSC system needed to be re-calibrated to insure 100% compatibility with the new lowered suspension + new EDC sport program setting. (including the wheels) The revised spring rates along with the slightly different compression and rebound characteristics would demand this type of modification.

All these hardware changes required some new software tweaks to accomodate the improved performance.

An aftermarket tuner would simply build a lowered suspension, and then slap on some bigger wider wheels & tires. (and call it a day...)

BMW (or any other automobile manufacturer) wouldn't simply leave these 'details' to chance.
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      01-29-2010, 02:21 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtm2008 View Post
Did anyone else notice that the M3 Sedan IS offered with the Competition package???
Yeah, although it was confirmed in the first post of this thread already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
mkoesel,

On the Competition Package cars, the revised EDC programing, the revised DSC settings, and the 10mm lowered suspension are designed to work as a complete system.
Fair enough. But, so was a bunch of other stuff too, right? Probably there were tweaks to other things such as the DCT, the speedo, ABS?, other BMW handling system acronyms , etc.

Why mention a "sport mapping for EDC/DSC" if the changes are merely what was necessary to accomodate the lowered suspension and wheels. After all, all DSC systems are calibrated based on the car and how it is engineered and equipped. I guess what I am saying is that one could just as easily say that the non-ZCP car has a "sport mapping for EDC/DSC". So then, is this just BMW's typical marketing-speak, or is there really some tangible difference to how the DSC (or EDC for that matter) will behave on a ZCP car vs. a non-ZCP car?
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      01-29-2010, 02:25 PM   #110
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LMB, I don't think that we disagree at all regarding EDC. EDC definitely is part of the ZCP pack and - to answer Mkoesel's question - is also part of the 7MA package in Europe.

Besides, I think your point on the DSC remapping being merely a necessity to accomodate to the new suspension layout rather than an added feature does make sense either. This would also explain why this isn't an advertised feature in the German pricelist.


Best regards,
south
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