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      01-27-2010, 08:51 AM   #1
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Has anyone with aftermarket software had dealer reflash to stock?

Considering going back to stock and wanted to see if anyone has done this and how much the dealer charged for this. I'd rather ask here before I go to the dealer with this question.

TIA,
BC
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      01-27-2010, 09:01 AM   #2
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Do you mind sharing why your considering going back to stock?
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      01-27-2010, 02:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by consolidated View Post
Do you mind sharing why your considering going back to stock?
I'm experiencing delay in downshift and AA hasn't come up with a fix. This is in addition to the often discussed dct lag. So I'd like to have only one lag to deal with....

BC
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      01-27-2010, 02:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryC View Post
I'm experiencing delay in downshift and AA hasn't come up with a fix. This is in addition to the often discussed dct lag. So I'd like to have only one lag to deal with....

BC
Did you get the BMW SB, DCT software upgrade yet?
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      01-27-2010, 03:00 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I think this would also flash his ECU back to stock too.
Yup.
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      01-27-2010, 03:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryC View Post
I'm experiencing delay in downshift and AA hasn't come up with a fix. This is in addition to the often discussed dct lag. So I'd like to have only one lag to deal with....

BC
Barry,

There is no AA DCT software available right now AFAIK, so no improvement shifting is possible at this time.
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      01-27-2010, 03:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I think this would also flash his ECU back to stock too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Yup.
Yes, that would be a "two-for-one" factory download deal.

In fact, every module on the car has to be updated at the same time. (apparently there is no way around this)

It takes all damn day, and if there is a "problem" updating one of the modules...you have to start the entire process over again. (from scratch)
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      01-27-2010, 03:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Did you get the BMW SB, DCT software upgrade yet?
Yep been done for a while and the lag (throttle lag as I call it) returned after a period of time. Seemed to be a little better after leaving the battery disconnected for 24 hours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Barry,

There is no AA DCT software available right now AFAIK, so no improvement shifting is possible at this time.
My downshift (this is a different problem than the "throttle" lag I reference above) problem did not exist until I got the v1.5 software. No issues with v1.0. or stock once I had the SB work done.

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      01-27-2010, 03:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryC View Post
Yep been done for a while and the lag (throttle lag as I call it) returned after a period of time. Seemed to be a little better after leaving the battery disconnected for 24 hours.



My downshift (this is a different problem than the "throttle" lag I reference above) problem did not exist until I got the v1.5 software. No issues with v1.0. or stock once I had the SB work done.

BC
Barry,

I need you to list the date your mods were installed (in chronological order) to properly diagnose what's going on with your car.

These are the components that I'm most interested in hearing about:

a) When did you bring your car to the dealer to get the latest factory DCT software update?
b) When did you have the AA v1.0 software installed?
c) When did you have the AA v1.5 software installed?
d) When was your 3.62:1 aftermarket differential installed?

This is very important, so post up the sequence of events for me please.

I think I know exactly why your car is shifting so poorly now.
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      01-27-2010, 05:05 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Barry,

I need you to list the date your mods were installed (in chronological order) to properly diagnose what's going on with your car.

These are the components that I'm most interested in hearing about:

a) When did you bring your car to the dealer to get the latest factory DCT software update?
b) When did you have the AA v1.0 software installed?
c) When did you have the AA v1.5 software installed?
d) When was your 3.62:1 aftermarket differential installed?

This is very important, so post up the sequence of events for me please.

I think I know exactly why your car is shifting so poorly now.
Order is as follows:

3.62
AA 1.0
Factory Update in Sept/Oct '09
AA 1.5

Thx!
BC
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      01-27-2010, 05:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryC View Post
Order is as follows:

3.62
AA 1.0
Factory Update in Sept/Oct '09
AA 1.5 (install date required)

Thx!
BC
Additional info required...

Time lapse in days/weeks/months from the time you had your DCT transmission software updated and the time you 'upgraded' to the AA v1.5 ECU flash?

Also, when did you install your 20" Volk G2 wheels and tires? Before the AA v1.5 software flash...or after?

Trust me, all these details matter.
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      01-27-2010, 05:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post

Trust me, all these details matter.
He's a doctor.
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      01-27-2010, 07:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Additional info required...

Time lapse in days/weeks/months from the time you had your DCT transmission software updated and the time you 'upgraded' to the AA v1.5 ECU flash?

Also, when did you install your 20" Volk G2 wheels and tires? Before the AA v1.5 software flash...or after?

Trust me, all these details matter.
Stock update less than a month before v1.5 installed and wheels were on the car before upgrade.

It is better in S6 but S4/S5 has the problem but not every time. It's mostly when I'm approaching a stop at a lesiurely pace.
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      01-27-2010, 08:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryC View Post
Stock update less than a month before v1.5 installed and wheels were on the car before upgrade.

It is better in S6 but S4/S5 has the problem but not every time. It's mostly when I'm approaching a stop at a lesiurely pace.
Thanks for the additional info Barry.

So for the sake of accuracy, you:

a) Installed a 3.62:1 aftermarket differential

b) Installed AA's v1.0 software flash

c) Installed BMW ISTAP 2.34 software update

d) Installed 20" Volk G2 wheels

e) Installed AA's v1.5 software flash (a few weeks after the ISTAP 2.34 software update)

f) A "throttle lag" (as you call it) issue crops up, and continues to get worse...



Is that the correct chronological order in which you upgraded your car?

If not, please make the necessary corrections.

But before you do that, I need a few more pieces of information from you to round out my 'online' diagnosis.

I need you to "slot in" the installation date of the following three performance upgrades (in between the other performance items) :

1) High-performance dry air filter

2) X-pipe /w/ HFC's

3) Rear muffler section

The installation dates of all these items are very important, so please think about it for a minute. After you are 100% certain of all the dates in question, post up the proper order in which they were installed on your M3. (with the amount of time in between each one)

Also list ANY fault codes that you car has thrown (to your knowledge) in the past four-to-six months, and especially the ones that have come back more than once.

Now bare with me here my friend, as I will eventually put all this together when I have a crystal clear picture of the exact sequence of events in regards to your aftermarket upgrades.

I'm sure that you are focusing all your attention on the AA software as the primary culprit here, (and that may be partially true)...but let's not throw them under the bus just yet.

It's actually a lot more complicated than you might be thinking right now. You have made a number of hardware & software changes to your car in the past few months, and I don't you are fully aware of how all those changes have altered the performance of your M3. (culimitive effect)

Once I can put my thoughts together in one comprehensive post (after you submit the info I have requested), you will see how all these things are inter-related. The answers to your performance woes are directly tied to the changes you have made to your car. (promise)
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      01-27-2010, 09:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryC View Post
Considering going back to stock and wanted to see if anyone has done this and how much the dealer charged for this. I'd rather ask here before I go to the dealer with this question.

TIA,
BC
Word of advice,

Some software tuners will "lock" a DME to prevent others from viewing, unethical competitors stealing files or as a means of retaining their customer base.

It would be a good idea to check with your original vendor to find out whether or not your DME is locked before heading to the dealer for a reflash and ensure there will be no trouble doing so without returning your computer back (or removing the tune via OBDII if flashed at a local facility).

If the DME is unknowingly locked, you might be in for an unpleasant surprise at the dealership.
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      01-27-2010, 09:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Thanks for the additional info Barry.

So for the sake of accuracy, you:
1) common throttle lag for dct transmission

2) High-performance dry air filter >1 year before software updates

3) Installed a 3.62:1 aftermarket differential > 1 year before software updates

4) Installed AA's v1.0 software flash last summer(I think - not too long after it became available)

5) Installed 20" Volk G2 wheels

6) Installed BMW ISTAP 2.34 software update three months or so after v1.0(no issues after 2.34 update but like others throttle lag/unresponsive throttle came back after several weeks)

7) Installed AA's v1.5 software flash (two MONTHS after the ISTAP 2.34 software update)

8) almost instantly noticed "downshift" lag when going from 5th or 6th down to 3rd or 2nd (the problem is not an unresponsive throttle that ISTAP2.34 was to fix, it's several second delay to execute a downshift)

9) X-pipe /w/ HFC's and Rear muffler section about a month after v1.5upgrade

Is that the correct chronological order in which you upgraded your car?

If not, please make the necessary corrections.

But before you do that, I need a few more pieces of information from you to round out my 'online' diagnosis.

I need you to "slot in" the installation date of the following three performance upgrades (in between the other performance items) :


The installation dates of all these items are very important, so please think about it for a minute. After you are 100% certain of all the dates in question, post up the proper order in which they were installed on your M3. (with the amount of time in between each one)

Also list ANY fault codes that you car has thrown (to your knowledge) in the past four-to-six months, and especially the ones that have come back more than once.

Now bare with me here my friend, as I will eventually put all this together when I have a crystal clear picture of the exact sequence of events in regards to your aftermarket upgrades.

I'm sure that you are focusing all your attention on the AA software as the primary culprit here, (and that may be partially true)...but let's not throw them under the bus just yet.

It's actually a lot more complicated than you might be thinking right now. You have made a number of hardware & software changes to your car in the past few months, and I don't you are fully aware of how all those changes have altered the performance of your M3. (culimitive effect)

Once I can put my thoughts together in one comprehensive post (after you submit the info I have requested), you will see how all these things are inter-related. The answers to your performance woes are directly tied to the changes you have made to your car. (promise)

updated your post for the order.
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      01-27-2010, 09:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Word of advice,

Some software tuners will "lock" a DME to prevent others from viewing, unethical competitors stealing files or as a means of retaining their customer base.

It would be a good idea to check with your original vendor to find out whether or not your DME is locked before heading to the dealer for a reflash and ensure there will be no trouble doing so without returning your computer back (or removing the tune via OBDII if flashed at a local facility).

If the DME is unknowingly locked, you might be in for an unpleasant surprise at the dealership.
Thanks Tom - appreciate the input. I'm trying to avoid having to send the DME to AA again but I may have no choice....
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      01-27-2010, 11:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryC View Post

1) common throttle lag for dct transmission

2) High-performance dry air filter >1 year before software updates

3) Installed a 3.62:1 aftermarket differential > 1 year before software updates

4) Installed AA's v1.0 software flash last summer(I think - not too long after it became available)

5) Installed 20" Volk G2 wheels

6) Installed BMW ISTAP 2.34 software update three months or so after v1.0(no issues after 2.34 update but like others throttle lag/unresponsive throttle came back after several weeks)

7) Installed AA's v1.5 software flash (two MONTHS after the ISTAP 2.34 software update)

8) almost instantly noticed "downshift" lag when going from 5th or 6th down to 3rd or 2nd (the problem is not an unresponsive throttle that ISTAP2.34 was to fix, it's several second delay to execute a downshift)

9) X-pipe /w/ HFC's and Rear muffler section about a month after v1.5upgrade
OK...

That makes it a whole lot easier to see where things may have gone haywire.

When I look at the chronological order of your performance modifications, it does appear that you have a software issue, I just need to find out a few more specific details to eliminate a few other possibilities.

Let's focus on the time frame between #4 and #8...

You had BMW install the ISTAP 2.34 software three months after the AA v1.0 performance software flash.

Now in that three month window (when you only had the AA v1.0 software installed), you're saying that you never had this current 'downshift' problem with the older DCT software version? (in any gear, under any circumstances)

If so, did that change at all after you got the latest ISTAP 2.34 update from the dealership? (in the two month window before you upgraded to AA's v1.5 software flash)

The factory ISTAP 2.34 software update would have wiped out the AA v1.0 performance software on the ECU.

So I assume you decided to go with AA's v1.5 performance software when the time came to re-flash your ECU the second time around? (thinking it would improve your bottom line performance correct?)

So immediately after you got AA's v1.5 performance software flash...how would you describe the performance of the DCT lag issue in general? Did it get better or worse?

In regards to performance (unrelated to DCT), was the AA v1.0 software under-performing in some fashion? (cold start issues in the morning, limp mode issues, rough idle, hesitation, etc. ???)

Now compare that to AA's v1.5 performance software? (again, take DCT out of the equation for the moment)

Are you having any engine performance related issues with that software that is NOT related to the DCT 'downshifting' problem you are having now?

I asked you earlier about fault codes, but I did see any info...

Do you have a code reader Barry? And if so, have you been monitoring your OBD-II port for random or chronic engine related fault codes?

If so, which codes are popping up? (post up the actual codes you see stored in memory)

Please fill in the blanks...
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      01-28-2010, 08:13 AM   #19
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Filled in the blanks below....




You had BMW install the ISTAP 2.34 software three months after the AA v1.0 performance software flash.

Now in that three month window (when you only had the AA v1.0 software installed), you're saying that you never had this current 'downshift' problem with the older DCT software version? (in any gear, under any circumstances) (I don't recall any downshifting issues and if there were any it was not so often that it became an annoyance as it is now)

If so, did that change at all after you got the latest ISTAP 2.34 update from the dealership? (in the two month window before you upgraded to AA's v1.5 software flash) (No change in shifting behavior)

The factory ISTAP 2.34 software update would have wiped out the AA v1.0 performance software on the ECU. (Correct)

So I assume you decided to go with AA's v1.5 performance software when the time came to re-flash your ECU the second time around? (thinking it would improve your bottom line performance correct?) (Correct)

So immediately after you got AA's v1.5 performance software flash...how would you describe the performance of the DCT lag issue in general? Did it get better or worse? (the "lag" issue was unaffected. downshifting became an issue)

In regards to performance (unrelated to DCT), was the AA v1.0 software under-performing in some fashion? (cold start issues in the morning, limp mode issues, rough idle, hesitation, etc. ???) (nope it was perfect)
Now compare that to AA's v1.5 performance software? (again, take DCT out of the equation for the moment)

Are you having any engine performance related issues with that software that is NOT related to the DCT 'downshifting' problem you are having now? (no other recurring problems. i've had a couple "stumbles" where the engine felt like it stopped for 1 sec or less. since this has only happened twice in a couple of months i don't attribute it to the AA software but it never happened until recently. for all i know it could be related to the hfcs/xpipe. It has been very rare given the amount of miles driven in this time frame imo.)

I asked you earlier about fault codes, but I did see any info... (none that have shown up on the dashboard)

Do you have a code reader Barry? And if so, have you been monitoring your OBD-II port for random or chronic engine related fault codes? (no i don't but given no messages on the dash I assume there are none to read)

If so, which codes are popping up? (post up the actual codes you see stored in memory) (not known - see above)
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      01-28-2010, 12:01 PM   #20
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can AA put it back to stock for you since they did it?? then maybe you won't have to pay for it. also then you won't run into warranty problems etc??

if not find a independent Dinan dealer and maybe get there software. i have theres and love it. no problems at all
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      01-28-2010, 01:23 PM   #21
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This is a facinating thread for me.

Lemans_Blue_M seems to be dancing around an issue that was identified to me (also indirectly) by a Dinan technician. I have a very similar factory update schedule to what BarryC is describing. I have the Dinan software upgrade.

If I inferred what is going on accurately, ISTA/P 2.33 or 2.34 created a conflict with some aftermarket tuner software packages. My car started throwing engine malfunction codes after one of the updates. The Dinan software had been present for a couple of months prior to the fault codes being thrown. Final conclusion by Dinan and BMW was that there is a conflict. Dinan is currently working on a fix.

LBM, can you enlighten us, a bit?

I have an inconsistent but severe lag issue.
ISTA/P 2.35 or 2.36 (whatever came out in mid December)
Don't know the integration level.
Dinan Software since long before ISTA/P 2.33

BarryC, I'm contemplating returning to stock, but waiting to see if Dinan comes up with a solution.

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      01-29-2010, 11:09 AM   #22
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My car just threw the engine malfunction CEL with reduced power, again. It cleared as soon as I restarted the car. Code is stored in memory, however. Don't remember the actual code, but will update this post when I get home.

Fault codes:
FC2B29
2771
2772

Last edited by Radiation Joe; 01-29-2010 at 06:35 PM.
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