BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
View Poll Results: WHO MAKE THE BEST S65 S/C KIT
G-POWER 10 13.16%
ESS 40 52.63%
GINTANI 30 39.47%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-17-2010, 01:26 PM   #23
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
 
DLSJ5's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

Posts: 3,397
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to DLSJ5
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCadet View Post
Hope he doesnt blow his transmission again.
When did he do that?
__________________
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
DLSJ5 is online now   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 01:28 PM   #24
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST06M3 View Post
We need to see some ESS vs Gintani vids. The bottom line is, people want the fastest. All other things will go out the door if ESS or Gintani consistently out runs each others kit and there are vids to back it up. My 2 cents.
From point A to point B...or from a 'roll'.

Raw power is not an absolute barometer for everyone. The amount of usable power is the key.

Traction is at a premium with this (or any other) car.

Putting that power to the ground without torching your rear tires is a much more impressive feat in my opinion. (for a daily driver)
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 01:38 PM   #25
ST06M3
Enlisted Member
 
ST06M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 BMW M3 ZCP
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AZ

Posts: 43
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
From point A to point B...or from a 'roll'.

Raw power is not an absolute barometer for everyone. The amount of usable power is the key.

Traction is at a premium with this (or any other) car.

Putting that power to the ground without torching your rear tires is a much more impressive feat in my opinion. (for a daily driver)
I agree. My point was across 3 main categories:

1 - 1/4 mile
2 - 60-130
3 - Any race that is captured on vid.

I for one would like to see Drew go with either ESS or Gintani since he is the most active (based on vids and records, just look at his sig) and has a huge amount of cars in Cali to get this done. Now its just of matter of which kit he goes with....
ST06M3 is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 01:50 PM   #26
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST06M3 View Post
I agree. My point was across 3 main categories:

1 - 1/4 mile
2 - 60-130
3 - Any race that is captured on vid.

I for one would like to see Drew go with either ESS or Gintani since he is the most active (based on vids and records, just look at his sig) and has a huge amount of cars in Cali to get this done. Now its just of matter of which kit he goes with....
I'm sure that you already know this...but Drew's naturally aspirated M3 is currently the quickest E9xM3 in the world in the 1/4 mile. (11.88)

All the supercharged cars are slower than his NA car in that measurable performance test.

That goes back to my statement about getting that power to the ground.

All the power in the world means absolutely nothing (to me) if you can't get traction in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear (spinning the tires)...

BTW: Drew is one smart dude. I'm sure he has a clear idea about who makes the best SC kit hands down.
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 02:05 PM   #27
rzm3
Moderator
 
rzm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 4,600
iTrader: (14)

I have a question for all the experts:

How does the additional power (be it +100, 200, or more hp) affect the life, reliability, and driveability of the engine and the drivetrain?

In other words, is it sound to subject engine internals (crank shaft, connecting rods, pistons, etc) designed for much less power and torque and transmission components through significantly higher stress and strain?

Thank you.
__________________
E92 M3 DCT - AiM EVO4 Data Logger / AiM SmartyCam HD / KW Competition 2-Way / OMP ARS Racing Seats / Brembo GT 365 / Pagid Yellow RS-29 / Rear Seats Delete
rzm3 is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 02:26 PM   #28
m33
Banned
 
m33's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

Posts: 2,697
iTrader: (5)

Buying a kit based on a Video is bold ! thats like buying a product from a 3am late night commercial Quality hmmmm i dunno about that

And one to say that one kit is better than the other with out owning one or knowing/having any experience from either or doesn't hold either

And as far as who puts down the most power doesnt justify whoes is better!

A stout kit is COST / QUALITY / LONGEVITY & TUNING] ......
You want your $10+ kit to perform day in and day out just as long as the stock motor was intended to do so With factory safety margins ( thats where tuning plays the key roll here )

And judging by on what I've been seeing Gintani SC'd cars play with boost , fuel ect so whoes to say it will be a fare equal race based on boost and fuell ???
ESS SC'd kits come in specific settings (575 5.5lbs 91 oct) (600 6lbs 93oct)

For the Record I'm not taking sides on Venders !!! Facts speak for itself ..


A 2 minute video doesn't prove nor validate anything except for top speed and time it took to get there even then conditions come into play , that video doesnt tell you quality and longevity of the kit
Track record say's it all
m33 is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 02:59 PM   #29
ST06M3
Enlisted Member
 
ST06M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 BMW M3 ZCP
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AZ

Posts: 43
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
I'm sure that you already know this...but Drew's naturally aspirated M3 is currently the quickest E9xM3 in the world in the 1/4 mile. (11.88)
Definitely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by =Lemans_Blue_M View Post
That goes back to my statement about getting that power to the ground.

All the power in the world means absolutely nothing (to me) if you can't get traction in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear (spinning the tires)...
Exactly. We need real world use cases (roll racing, 60-130, etc) that all of us love to measure our cars by. Without it, we are just having expensive Dyno contests.

Last edited by ST06M3; 01-17-2010 at 03:01 PM. Reason: fixed quote
ST06M3 is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 03:03 PM   #30
Filin M3
New Member
 
Drives: M3 E90 ESS 600+ HP
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Moscow

Posts: 18
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m33 View Post
Buying a kit based on a Video is bold ! thats like buying a product from a 3am late night commercial Quality hmmmm i dunno about that

And one to say that one kit is better than the other with out owning one or knowing/having any experience from either or doesn't hold either

And as far as who puts down the most power doesnt justify whoes is better!

A stout kit is COST / QUALITY / LONGEVITY & TUNING] ......
You want your $10+ kit to perform day in and day out just as long as the stock motor was intended to do so With factory safety margins ( thats where tuning plays the key roll here )

And judging by on what I've been seeing Gintani SC'd cars play with boost , fuel ect so whoes to say it will be a fare equal race based on boost and fuell ???
ESS SC'd kits come in specific settings (575 5.5lbs 91 oct) (600 6lbs 93oct)

For the Record I'm not taking sides on Venders !!! Facts speak for itself ..


A 2 minute video doesn't prove nor validate anything except for top speed and time it took to get there even then conditions come into play , that video doesnt tell you quality and longevity of the kit
Track record say's it all
+1000) Today I've reached 11,000 km with my ESS supercharger! All is perfect except for the heavy winter conditions (minus 15-20 C' every day) in Moscow this year...
Filin M3 is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 03:19 PM   #31
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rldzhao View Post
I have a question for all the experts:

How does the additional power (be it +100, 200, or more hp) affect the life, reliability, and driveability of the engine and the drivetrain?

In other words, is it sound to subject engine internals (crank shaft, connecting rods, pistons, etc) designed for much less power and torque and transmission components through significantly higher stress and strain?

Thank you.
Short answer: It does reduce the effective lifespan of all those components.

BTW: The most vulnerable internal engine part of them all...are the rings.

By bolting a forced induction kit onto an engine (that was originally built to be naturally aspirated), I think (or hope) most consumers understand that the life expectancy of these components is going to be reduced. (even under ideal circumstances)

If the M3 owners don't understand that... then shame on them for being a little too naive.

Now the wear factor of going FI on a naturally aspirated engine isn't proportional. (historically speaking)

The life expectancy of your engine is not going to be reduced by the 50% simply because you increased the horsepower and torque by 50%.

It's not that cut and dry...

BMW engineers build in some safety margins into these internal engine parts, so you may end up reducing the life span by 20% which will still be well over 100,000 miles on the average M3.

Now, these numbers are pure speculation on my part, since no long-term data is actually available to answer this specific question.

I am basing this estimate on what I have seen over the past 15-20 years. (anecdotal evidence)

No good verifiable records are kept on these FI cars, since they usually change hands three or four times before the odometer hits 100k.

That makes it incredibly difficult to know exactly how much the engine's lifespan is actually being reduced. (by going FI)

I can tell you this much...

The LINEAR power output of a centrifugal supercharger (like the Vortech) will have a less profound effect on the engine internals. (since MAX BOOST is only achieved at rpms levels near redline)

Since the boost is tied to the rpm of the engine with centrifugal superchargers, the S65B40 will spend very little time at maximum boost. (in between shifts) And even then...the boost pressure necessary to make that 50% power increase (in this car) is a drop in the bucket vs. other supercharged cars. (thanks to the efficiency of S65B40 V8 engine and four Double-VANOS camshafts)

Bottom line the engine is not going to implode because of the increased stress on the engine transmission or drive train components in 20,000 if that's what you are worried about.

From what I have seen, the few stress related failures have occurred in BMW cars that were trying to effectively double the stock hp and torque output of the car. Most of those vehicles were E36 and E46 M3 turbocharged BMW's. (where the power comes on much faster in a more violent and aggressive manner)

Cylinder pressures, stress, and heat builds so quickly inside the engine...that wear is always going to be a concern for turbocharged cars. (much more that it would for a centrifugal supercharged car)

This is assuming both cars have perfectly tuned FI software.

Again, only a naive person thinks they will get exactly the same life out of the engine with a 50% increase in power.

That little 'detail' simply comes with the territory...

That shouldn't scare anyone off going FI, since this has always been the way it works.

In fact, it's less of an issue now, due to all the engine and forced induction hardware innovations over the past 10 years.

For the record...

Poorly engineered forced induction hardware componants, or poorly executed forced induction software files have destroyed far more engine parts than the 50% increases in power output.

Just my .02
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 04:11 PM   #32
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
 
DLSJ5's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

Posts: 3,397
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to DLSJ5
Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
Since the beginning, I've been saying that 1/4 mile times are much more driver dependant than a true measurement of a car's performance. Drew, you're a great example to demonstrate just how much of 1/4 mile times are skill versus horsepower. You don't have the most horsepower, but you undisputedly have the fasted NA M3 that we know of. In fact, you have the quickest ET -- even including the SC cars. Those results are because of your skill, not because of your horsepower. This demonstrates exactly why 1/4 mile times are totally irrelevant to me as a car's performance metric -- because it's NOT a car's performance metric -- it's a DRIVER'S performance metric. I realize that dyno sheets are just pieces of paper to you. But when operated properly, and compared properly (DynoDB), they give very useful information -- more useful than a 1/4 mile time (IMO).



+1000
We've had it out on this, and I regret some of the things that were said in that old thread. I think you and I are past that and I respect your contributions here a great deal, you make some good points about 1/4 mile times being driver dependent, they are also dependent on traction as well as conditions much like dyno's, this is true, but with the DCT that doesn't apply as much as it would to a 6MT, the car does the work for you.

Robert, I very much appreciate the kind words about my driving skills and I wish I could take all the credit, but I'm pretty sure even my wife could take a DCT M3 down the track and get some good times, with a good launch in good conditions. I give credit to BMW for going with this incredible transmission over my driving skills, I also give credit to the additional modifications, etc., and those Nitto Drag Radials.

If The SC'd cars were running Drag Radials they would have easily eclipsed my times. I have no doubt others will hit/beat my times and once a SC'd car gets a good launch you will see some impressive runs.

Vbox times tell a lot as well, lining 'em from a roll does too, IMHO, that's how I judge, and whether we like it or not, the majority of guys who want to go faster do too. What is the main reason we mod our cars? You want to be faster than the other guy, it's really that simple and yes that shallow, lol.

You and I just happen to disagree on what's the best way to measure "performance" not necessarily all the other stuff, reliability, etc. no question Leman's billet points are important, as are other concerns people have posted here.
__________________
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
DLSJ5 is online now   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 04:16 PM   #33
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
 
DLSJ5's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

Posts: 3,397
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to DLSJ5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
I'm sure that you already know this...but Drew's naturally aspirated M3 is currently the quickest E9xM3 in the world in the 1/4 mile. (11.88)

All the supercharged cars are slower than his NA car in that measurable performance test.

That goes back to my statement about getting that power to the ground.

All the power in the world means absolutely nothing (to me) if you can't get traction in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear (spinning the tires)...

BTW: Drew is one smart dude. I'm sure he has a clear idea about who makes the best SC kit hands down.
Good points but it looks like I fooled you with regards to your last comment though.

haha, I appreciate the kind words Bro.
__________________
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
DLSJ5 is online now   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 04:27 PM   #34
tightie
JOSH SHOKRI.
 
tightie's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 E92 Coupe.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: los angeles, california.

Posts: 5,573
iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [3.95]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
+1 on bolded text.

It is definitely possible over-engineer a supercharger kit, by adding a large number of unnecessary parts to mask a engineering and/or fundamental design flaw. ('super-sized' air-to-water or air-to-air intercooolers, water/methanol injection, nitrous oxide, etc.)

These 'extra' parts make it more difficult to properly diagnose (troubleshoot) an issue with any forced induction kit. That typically translates into longer down time for the customers vehicle, if there is a performance related issue to sort out.

In some SC kits, large bulky intake piping and/or intercooling parts are incorrectly designed (and routed) inside the engine bay. This reduces the overall cooling efficiency of the engine, since the path of the incoming airflow is blocked or restricted to key cooling components like the radiator. The more obstructions that are placed in front of the radiator, the less effective it can be in dissipating heat. (which is the purpose of having a radiator in the first place)

This will ultimately hinder your ability to make horsepower as you increase the boost. The performance potential of your SC kit will be 'capped' until those heat related issues are resolved. (since unmanageable HEAT related issues start to work against you)
It honestly blows my mind how you make all your comments from behind a computer screen. Have you ever seen any of the kits in person? “I noticed a few small (but very important) details about this supercharger kit.” What are you going to pull out of your hat for a drive by video? I would LOVE to hear this. Have you ever picked up the phone and asked questions? Have you ever one told anyone who you are? There is for sure a reason why you are hiding behind a computer and speaking, it might be who you are or who you work for but in all honestly, your opinion doesn’t mean anything to me. You go around posting comments and never finishing them. You just jump on certain threads and act like you know everything.. hate to break it to you, you don’t.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpuna View Post
Eugene you need to learn how to use the search feature on youtube. You keep saying there are no vids of the ESS kit but yet I have had no problem finding lots of ESS E9X vids. There are tons of vids of the GS race car that ran all of last race season with the VT2 kit on it and also did several drift events. There are two vids from two different customers who ran their ESS supercharged cars from 0-200+ MPH and also a video of Biglare racing a 750 HP stage 2.5 HPF car. I think these will give you an idea of how the kit performs and the GS race car videos will give you an idea of how the kit was tested before it was released to the public
I would love to see more comparison videos between ESS and other fast cars. Please take someone in the passenger seat so we can get a good view. I always recorded my testing with my Gpower kit, Everyone should do the same so we can see for ourselves. I've had some issues with Roman in the past regarding his dyno numbers.. I made a few comments and he took down the dyno and posted some different charts, that's why I have been waiting to see a customers car dyno at a independent shop so it's more believable. I'm not starting a war between ESS/Gintani/Gpower, I just want to see some real time data, car vs car. I've been waiting until someone in CA gets the ESS kit so I can personally check it out and get some runs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ST06M3 View Post
We need to see some ESS vs Gintani vids. The bottom line is, people want the fastest. All other things will go out the door if ESS or Gintani consistently out runs each others kit and there are vids to back it up. My 2 cents.
+1 Totally agree.







I know Gintani might come off to everyone as a "new" company but this is exactly how horsepower freaks got started when they first started making turbo kits for the M3. Everyone doubted them, spoke bad about them and look at the situation a year later, everyone is kissing their ass. I don't mean to sit here and defend them (the other members already got banned for defending their hard work) but honestly, I have been to their shop way too many times. I've seen all the testing, dyno runs, changes, everything being made IN house infront of my eyes, even when I had the Gpower kit... There is a lot you guys can't see or swallow but I'm sure in time, it will happen.
__________________
Present: 15 YMB F80 M3 | iND Painted Front Reflectors, Painted Side Marker Set, Rear Painted Emblem & Front Grill Surround | H&R Super Sport Springs | Macht Schnell 20mm Spacers
*California Members* Speed District M3 Track Days: August 1 @ Willow Springs Raceway
tightie is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 05:08 PM   #35
m33
Banned
 
m33's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

Posts: 2,697
iTrader: (5)

Tightie makes a good point !
im dieing to get video footage of some races , as soon as the weather gets better i will contribute !
Allthough i cought a nice race with and Evo8 putting down 450+whp with the car being much lighter than stock , saw that he had carbon trunk , hood , fenders ect.. 1st race was 2nd through 4th , put 2to3 cars on him , second race put 1 car on him i think he turned up the boost or somthing
This was with me having major traction issues in 2nd and a bit or 3rd ....

I wished it was warmer out
m33 is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 05:19 PM   #36
BMWCadet
Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW E92 MR M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Fort Gordon, Georgia

Posts: 402
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
When did he do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
I don't think Sticky ever blew his transmission.
I apologize, his transmission was still intact, but could not handle the S/C. Hadn't read this thread in a while:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...sticky&page=33
BMWCadet is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 05:24 PM   #37
BMWCadet
Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW E92 MR M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Fort Gordon, Georgia

Posts: 402
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ST06M3 View Post
We need to see some ESS vs Gintani vids. The bottom line is, people want the fastest. All other things will go out the door if ESS or Gintani consistently out runs each others kit and there are vids to back it up. My 2 cents.
Wrong. People want the most reliable. You can have the fastest Supercharger and the bill that'll come with replacing the engine when it blows. I bet this M engine costs as much as a 328.
BMWCadet is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 05:34 PM   #38
tightie
JOSH SHOKRI.
 
tightie's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 E92 Coupe.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: los angeles, california.

Posts: 5,573
iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [3.95]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCadet View Post
I apologize, his transmission was still intact, but could not handle the S/C. Hadn't read this thread in a while:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...sticky&page=33
The DCT can handle the S/C just fine. Sticky wants to be able to warm up his D/Rs then use the DCT launch software. N/A M3s are having problems using the DCT launch software more then once or twice... Gintani has built a cooling system for Sticky's DCT tranny and now he will be able to heat the tires up and launch using the DCT. More information will be posted soon.
__________________
Present: 15 YMB F80 M3 | iND Painted Front Reflectors, Painted Side Marker Set, Rear Painted Emblem & Front Grill Surround | H&R Super Sport Springs | Macht Schnell 20mm Spacers
*California Members* Speed District M3 Track Days: August 1 @ Willow Springs Raceway
tightie is offline   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 05:38 PM   #39
DLSJ5
Brigadier General
 
DLSJ5's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: CA

Posts: 3,397
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to DLSJ5
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCadet View Post
Wrong. People want the most reliable. You can have the fastest Supercharger and the bill that'll come with replacing the engine when it blows. I bet this M engine costs as much as a 328.
I think he's well aware of reliability/support, people are not going to buy a kit if there isn't any sense of reliability, lol, but make no mistake most want to be faster, and that will be high on their list of priorities before they purchase the kit.

Regardless being the "faster" kit does not necessarily mean it will be the one that is more susceptible to blowing an engine in comparison to the "slower" cars.
__________________
08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
DLSJ5 is online now   United_States
0
      01-17-2010, 05:51 PM   #40
Rectify
Banned
 
Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada

Posts: 29
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCadet View Post
Wrong. People want the most reliable. You can have the fastest Supercharger and the bill that'll come with replacing the engine when it blows. I bet this M engine costs as much as a 328.
Wrong, don't speak for all people. Many want the fastest and that does not mean you have to forego reliability, you can have less power and blow the motor.
Rectify is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 05:54 PM   #41
Rectify
Banned
 
Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada

Posts: 29
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWCadet View Post
I apologize, his transmission was still intact, but could not handle the S/C. Hadn't read this thread in a while:

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...sticky&page=33
Could not handle the SC? I don't really understand that, seems you are trying to put a person down instead of get a context for mechanical issues.

The BMW transmission cooler was not designed with the DCT in mind and definitely not with more power in mind. It is the same cooler the manual transmission uses yet the DCT puts out far more heat. Why have people overheated with stock power? Why have DCT's gone into limp mode stock on the track? Let me guess, they could not handle the power or is it that the cooler is under-engineered to begin with?

You seem to be blaming an individual for mechanical issues due to BMW skimping on parts instead of giving the DCT the better cooler it needs. That is reckless and not correct.
Rectify is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 05:55 PM   #42
Rectify
Banned
 
Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada

Posts: 29
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tightie View Post
The DCT can handle the S/C just fine. Sticky wants to be able to warm up his D/Rs then use the DCT launch software. N/A M3s are having problems using the DCT launch software more then once or twice... Gintani has built a cooling system for Sticky's DCT tranny and now he will be able to heat the tires up and launch using the DCT. More information will be posted soon.
+1 There is a big difference between driving on the street and doing a standing burnout then using launch control at the drag strip. This is fairly simple to understand.
Rectify is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 05:57 PM   #43
Rectify
Banned
 
Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada

Posts: 29
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
I'm sure that you already know this...but Drew's naturally aspirated M3 is currently the quickest E9xM3 in the world in the 1/4 mile. (11.88)

All the supercharged cars are slower than his NA car in that measurable performance test.

That goes back to my statement about getting that power to the ground.

All the power in the world means absolutely nothing (to me) if you can't get traction in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear (spinning the tires)...

BTW: Drew is one smart dude. I'm sure he has a clear idea about who makes the best SC kit hands down.
All the supercharged cars are FASTER, not slower. You seem to be confusing quicker with faster as you have little experience with these cars and their times on the strip as well as the correct terminology when referencing them.

You also seem to be forgetting times are not set in stone, what are you going to say when the SC cars put up numbers that are out of reach which they already have? I can not believe you are so eager to blindly interpret that you can not see the potential with the numbers posted.

Last edited by Rectify; 01-17-2010 at 06:13 PM.
Rectify is offline  
0
      01-17-2010, 05:59 PM   #44
Rectify
Banned
 
Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada

Posts: 29
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
+1 on bolded text.

It is definitely possible over-engineer a supercharger kit, by adding a large number of unnecessary parts to mask a engineering and/or fundamental design flaw. ('super-sized' air-to-water or air-to-air intercooolers, water/methanol injection, nitrous oxide, etc.)

These 'extra' parts make it more difficult to properly diagnose (troubleshoot) an issue with any forced induction kit. That typically translates into longer down time for the customers vehicle, if there is a performance related issue to sort out.

In some SC kits, large bulky intake piping and/or intercooling parts are incorrectly designed (and routed) inside the engine bay. This reduces the overall cooling efficiency of the engine, since the path of the incoming airflow is blocked or restricted to key cooling components like the radiator. The more obstructions that are placed in front of the radiator, the less effective it can be in dissipating heat. (which is the purpose of having a radiator in the first place)

This will ultimately hinder your ability to make horsepower as you increase the boost. The performance potential of your SC kit will be 'capped' until those heat related issues are resolved. (since unmanageable HEAT related issues start to work against you)
The "extra" parts make it difficult to diagnose an issue with any forced induction kit? Really? Water-meth or a properly designed cooler do that? I don't understand, what are you basing this on? Would you please stop speaking in general terms as if to prove something and actually focus on a specific?

What is the problem with water-meth? HPF has run it successfully and someone not running it on 91 octane can potentially be creating an issue that would not take place with a proper water-meth setup.

I believe VF blew 3 motors on 91 octane because they disregarded the water-meth yet this company is one you defended and now you are saying this type of thing is superfluous? You are not making sense and the results do not support your assertions.

This statement is reckless and dangerous and I can not believe how someone can say it:

Quote:
It is definitely possible over-engineer a supercharger kit, by adding a large number of unnecessary parts to mask a engineering and/or fundamental design flawp
Whom are you referring to or are you simply throwing generic things out there? Seems you are saying forced induction systems that have custom options that the owner desires are done so to mask an engineering flaw? I can't believe this and I really think this needs to be nipped in the bud now as you continue to think you are some kind of authority yet you have no hands on experience with what you are referencing.
Rectify is offline  
0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST