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      01-12-2010, 12:26 PM   #1
M3 Piotr
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Please advise - good price or not?

2009 E90 M3 with the following options

Jerez Black Metallic
Silver Novillo Extended Leather
Carbon Leather interior trim
Cold Weather Package
Premium Package
Technology Package
19" Forged wheels
M Double-clutch Transmission with Drivelogic
Moonroof
Enhanced Premium Sound
iPod and USB adapter
Park Distance Control

1,200 mile service done.

Car has 5K miles and asking price is $57K. I was to offer $55K. Is that reasonable? I also worry that it might depreciate even more in March with the release of MY2011. Thanks
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      01-12-2010, 01:40 PM   #2
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Military sales in Germany, I presume?

A similary equipped (not sure about the DCT or extended) new 2010 in JB will set you back another $4K at the Wuerzburg location. Perhaps you could do better if the cars were exactly the same?

Just be prepared for the insurance (the M3 costs more than our other two cars combined over here)
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      01-12-2010, 01:49 PM   #3
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Yes, military sales. I'm trying to hold out for MY2011 in March, but if that is a good price than I might go for it. I tried to look at different US car websites to find similarly equipped car to see what they are retailing for, but no luck. Yes, Bavarian has one for 61K, but I think it's 6spd and not extended and no enhanced.
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      01-13-2010, 06:57 AM   #4
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So without DCT, Extended Leather and Enhanced....you have about a $4,000+ or so spread (I don't have the exact prices in front of me, but they would be sticker given the format of military sales).

So the 2009 has an additional $4K in equipment with 5,000 miles compared to the 2010, but is $4k cheaper at asking price, giving you about $8,000 in difference for used versus new in one different model year.

You may seem some further slide when the 2011 hits, but its tough to really know what the military sales agents have as profit margin in these cars, and therefore what is possible.

I would try to price out the exact 2011 that you want (or one that matches the 2009) to get a better idea of what you may be looking at.

I took delivery of my 2009 in March of 2009, having ordered it over the winter. The few 2008 E93s that left were going for about $5,000 less than mine by the time the summer was in full swing, but then again the 2008 over supply was probably an issue. I take solace in the fact that I ordered the exact car that I wanted and was happy with that. The E93 demo that I did drive before placing my order was nice, but you could tell the thing was ridden hard and put away wet many times. They let me take it out on my own and that what I did with it.....

Tough call......but more enlightened minds may chime in.
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      01-13-2010, 07:30 AM   #5
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That's what worries me. This was a demo car. According to their policies, on M cars you should have a chaperone with you until the break-in is completed. But who wants to come in and test drive M3 and only go up to 5500 rpms. So the car might have seen some abuse. Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.
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      01-13-2010, 02:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
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That's what worries me. This was a demo car. According to their policies, on M cars you should have a chaperone with you until the break-in is completed. But who wants to come in and test drive M3 and only go up to 5500 rpms. So the car might have seen some abuse. Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.
I was let out alone twice with the M3 and consider my self repsectful of anything borrowed / not mine. Temptation is temptation though

A lot of people will say that the break in "restrictions" are not a huge deal, and drive it like they stole it the second they took delivery. Heck, some will even argue that their Ms use less oil with this reckless abandon for break in.

Unless there is a lot of action on the existing 2009, you may want to see what a 2011 will go for, then you can get a true comparison. Once the 2011s are available you may see the 2009 drop more. The insurance will likely be cheaper on the 2009.

If the existing 2010 is not what you are looking for, then don't even consider it...don't compromise on this purchase.

Before I ordered my 2009, the Bavarian dealer here in Graf was able to search all existing inventory (beyond their own for a car and found a JB E93 at Pentagon in K-town, but I prefered to go with a lighter color. That may be an option for you too.
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      01-13-2010, 02:42 PM   #7
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Military sales in Germany, I presume?

Just be prepared for the insurance (the M3 costs more than our other two cars combined over here)
May I ask how much are you paying? Are you with USAA?

Thanks in advance
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      01-13-2010, 03:32 PM   #8
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I just got a quote on the above referenced 2009 M3. It would be almost 2K a year, and I have a perfect record and over 32 so does my wife. Right now I pay $1750 for two cars per year (incl 2008 X3). If I was to add the M it would be $3700 with 2 drivers and 3 cars. Germans require astronomical liability limits like 7.5M Euros BodilyInjury / 1.0M Euros PropertyDamage /500K Euros Consequential Loss per car. OSTEOME was right, it will go up double.
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      01-13-2010, 11:42 PM   #9
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I just got a quote on the above referenced 2009 M3. It would be almost 2K a year, and I have a perfect record and over 32 so does my wife. Right now I pay $1750 for two cars per year (incl 2008 X3). If I was to add the M it would be $3700 with 2 drivers and 3 cars. Germans require astronomical liability limits like 7.5M Euros BodilyInjury / 1.0M Euros PropertyDamage /500K Euros Consequential Loss per car. OSTEOME was right, it will go up double.
Sounds about right!

I do store my M for the winter and the rate plummets to about 75% of the normal charge when it is in storage.
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      01-18-2010, 04:14 PM   #10
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I'm going to steer away from that car as far as I can, or Pentagon Car Sales for that reason. I did put a deposit on it on Friday, and withdrew it today. I went there on Friday to see the car in person, and looked all good at first glance until I looked underneath the front to find an oil paddle on the showroom floor. I wiped the paddle off on Friday, and came back on Sunday just to check it again and found another oil paddle. Car is leaking oil. WTF??? Then started inspecting the paint, and found some imperfections on the hood. It looked like someone took some sand/dust particles and sprayed paint over it. There is also overspray on the edges of the hood and quarter panel. So I wrote an email over to my sales rep about it, and today I was informed that the front end indeed was repainted due to some scratches. SCRATCHES??? What about disclosing this right up front, before I put the deposit. Scratches can be polished out. It had to be more than just scratches. On top of it, the front bumper doesn't line up with the front right quarter panel and has bigger gap than on the left side. That is not how you do business, and treat a customer that bought a car from them last year, and was about to buy another one. To add, four of my friends referred by me also got their cars from Pentagon. I guess this is how they thanked me. I was very committed customer to Pentagon, but that has changed today.
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      01-19-2010, 02:00 PM   #11
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In all fairness, a LOT of M3s bumper/fender seams are off. Someone started a thread about it and there were a number of other replies that confirmed they had the issue as well. Scratches into the color coat will require paint or touch up. Depending on the shop it may have been cheaper to paint than touch it up. The oil leak is an issue though. Could be easy, could be a real issue. It IS possible they didn't know about the leak. The paint they're not legally obligated to disclose. You'd be surprised to know how many cars get repaired at the dealership that owners have no clue about.

Now, don't take this as me being overly critical or second guessing your decision, just some hopefully helpful info to use in your continuing search. Given everything combined I'd probably have backed out as well.

I'll keep my eyes peeled and let you know if I see a good car for you.

Any specifics you want or don't want?
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      01-19-2010, 04:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
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In all fairness, a LOT of M3s bumper/fender seams are off. Someone started a thread about it and there were a number of other replies that confirmed they had the issue as well. Scratches into the color coat will require paint or touch up. Depending on the shop it may have been cheaper to paint than touch it up. The oil leak is an issue though. Could be easy, could be a real issue. It IS possible they didn't know about the leak. The paint they're not legally obligated to disclose. You'd be surprised to know how many cars get repaired at the dealership that owners have no clue about.

Now, don't take this as me being overly critical or second guessing your decision, just some hopefully helpful info to use in your continuing search. Given everything combined I'd probably have backed out as well.

I'll keep my eyes peeled and let you know if I see a good car for you.

Any specifics you want or don't want?
Thanks. If I was just someone who only buys a car for looks or heard that there is this M3 thing and it's fast, than I most likely wouldn't even care, because I wouldn't pay attention to little details. It didn't bother me that the car had already 5K miles on it. I heard that David (one of the owners) drove that car most of the time and took proper care of it and didn't let anyone drive it until 1200 mile break-in service was completed. I also heard that he's very passionate about BMWs and a M-car fanatic, so I felt like the car was taken care of. I took in consideration the wear and tear and the additional demo discount. However, I didn't expect to find an oil leak and later that the car was repainted, and I was to sign the Damage Report that stated there was no damages during the demo period. This raised the flag and I decided against it, and felt like they weren't telling me everything. To be honest, would you be willing to buy a brand new car knowing that it was repainted for scratches? Most of us wouldn't. Now I'm without my dream car again, and will have to wait until MY2011 is out.
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      01-19-2010, 04:09 PM   #13
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I think I just wait for MY2011 and order with the options I want, no extra stuff. Looking at either Jerez Black, Alpine White or Space Gray E90 M3. ZTP, ZPP, 19s, iPod, Alarm, M-Dct, either Novillo Silver or Fox Red, Carbon trim.
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      01-20-2010, 08:36 AM   #14
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I also want to make it clear that I don't want to make it look like I'm trying to discredit Pentagon. I only share my experience that I had with them. We all have good or bad experiences with different companies. But I do have a choice between Pentagon Car Sales, Bavarian Motor Cars and Supreme here in Germany to pick from.
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      01-20-2010, 09:03 AM   #15
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I heard that David (one of the owners) drove that car most of the time and took proper care of it and didn't let anyone drive it until 1200 mile break-in service was completed. I also heard that he's very passionate about BMWs and a M-car fanatic, so I felt like the car was taken care of.

If that really WAS his car, I test drove it. The specs, colors, options are dead on the one I drove. Only difference was the one I drove had some SWEEEEEET ACS wheels on it. In fact, that was the car that convinced me to do the Palladium Silver interior.

I agree, with that amount of stuff not disclosed I'd probably have walked too. For what it costs you shoudl be 100% happy with it. FWIW, when I drove it it performed flawlessly.
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      01-20-2010, 09:07 AM   #16
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I also want to make it clear that I don't want to make it look like I'm trying to discredit Pentagon. I only share my experience that I had with them. We all have good or bad experiences with different companies. But I do have a choice between Pentagon Car Sales, Bavarian Motor Cars and Supreme here in Germany to pick from.
Don't sweat it. When I was having issues with them I let it be known. When they performed well I praised them. No one is perfect all the time so I'm sure your next experience will be better. I can always shoot you my SAs info. He was great to deal with. Though not particularly close to you.
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      01-20-2010, 09:25 AM   #17
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Those ACS wheels are David's own rims (20s with 295 on the rear). Yes there are sweet, and I drove the car with them on as well. How did you get Palladium Silver? Or is that just Novillo Silver?

Quote:
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If that really WAS his car, I test drove it. The specs, colors, options are dead on the one I drove. Only difference was the one I drove had some SWEEEEEET ACS wheels on it. In fact, that was the car that convinced me to do the Palladium Silver interior.

I agree, with that amount of stuff not disclosed I'd probably have walked too. For what it costs you shoudl be 100% happy with it. FWIW, when I drove it it performed flawlessly.
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      01-20-2010, 09:51 AM   #18
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The color is Palladium Silver, the leather is Novillo leather, so it's Palladium Silver Novillo leather.

edit: I could SWEAR the color's full name was Palladium Silver on the sample in the showroom but the BMW site just says Silver. The interior color thread says Paladium Silver as well.

On the plus side you can order a 2011 for March builds already so all is not lost. Just a long wait.
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