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      01-04-2010, 04:07 AM   #1
CATCH_M3
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CLK63 AMG Black-Series Vs. M3

BMW M3 with Sport Pack
-420 hp
-Michelin Pilot Sport Cup
-280 km/h
-0-100 km/h: 4,8 s
-0-200 km/h: 15,7 s
-80-120 km/h: 7,2 s (6th)

Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG Black Series
-507 hp
-Pirelli P Zero Corsa
-300 km/h (limited)
-0-100 km/h: 4,5 s
-0-200 km/h: 14,6 s
-80-120 km/h: 8,9 s (7th)

Hockenheimring:
1.13,8 min - Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG Black Series
1.14,3 min - BMW M3





Very impressed the M3 is only a bit slower around the track considering the power & price discrepency!
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      01-04-2010, 04:27 AM   #2
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To be honest, I'm surprised the M3 is not faster than the CLK63 on the track.

The CLK doesn't come with back seats. I bet if you take them out of the M3 it's going to be verrrryyyy close (around the track)
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      01-04-2010, 07:21 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Ca$hOnly View Post
To be honest, I'm surprised the M3 is not faster than the CLK63 on the track.

The CLK doesn't come with back seats. I bet if you take them out of the M3 it's going to be verrrryyyy close (around the track)
It would take more than just rear seats to shave that amount of time off, but all things considered it brings into focus just how good the M3 and those CUP+ tyres really are.
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      01-04-2010, 07:52 AM   #4
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I am actually surprised by how CLK63 Black was faster than M3...

Black Series is slightly heavier than normal CLK63 and M3(200lb) and this car still uses "conventional torque converter automatics".
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      01-04-2010, 08:38 AM   #5
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Honestly who cares which is faster. CLK63 Black Series will one day be a collectors car. Very rare production. I seen only one once in my life on the road. Talk about a car that will turn heads.
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      01-04-2010, 10:00 AM   #6
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Love my M, but the black series is badass and the looks are great
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      01-04-2010, 10:42 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CATCH_M3 View Post

Very impressed the M3 is only a bit slower around the track considering the power & price discrepency!

half a second slower is not "only a bit slower"


otherwise you are right, for the M3 price, I cannot be happier with its performance
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      01-04-2010, 11:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTM View Post
I am actually surprised by how CLK63 Black was faster than M3...

Black Series is slightly heavier than normal CLK63 and M3(200lb) and this car still uses "conventional torque converter automatics".
well in a recent us road test the m3 was quicker in a straight line as well as on the track
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      01-04-2010, 12:51 PM   #9
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i think the cup tires made a big different for the m3, no?
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      01-04-2010, 01:54 PM   #10
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you have to remember that the cup+ tires on the M3 are not actually the full MSP. They are a slightly less 'hardcore' version that are meant a little more for the streets and resist hydroplaning a bit more than the stock michelin sport cups. These are the tires I would choose from the factory anyway.. These cup+ sacrifice some dry traction for increased wet traction.

Not sure if the Corsas on the Black are stock or modified for street use by Mercedes
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      01-04-2010, 04:25 PM   #11
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I love the bs
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      01-04-2010, 04:31 PM   #12
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For fun, "Bolt-on" DCT M3 vs CLK Black

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      01-04-2010, 04:35 PM   #13
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The M3 with those mods has deff more then 450hp there. Either way, its a good race, but those mods make good power.
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      01-04-2010, 04:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG_C63_AMG View Post
Honestly who cares which is faster. CLK63 Black Series will one day be a collectors car. Very rare production. I seen only one once in my life on the road. Talk about a car that will turn heads.
+1 I've seen one as well, a white one and it made me
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      01-04-2010, 05:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CATCH_M3 View Post
you have to remember that the cup+ tires on the M3 are not actually the full MSP. They are a slightly less 'hardcore' version that are meant a little more for the streets and resist hydroplaning a bit more than the stock michelin sport cups. These are the tires I would choose from the factory anyway.. These cup+ sacrifice some dry traction for increased wet traction.

Not sure if the Corsas on the Black are stock or modified for street use by Mercedes
My opinion is that the CUP+ are still better than all others, including the Corsa. But ignorring the difference in rubber, the M3 is truly amazing considering how much difference there is in price.
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      01-04-2010, 05:21 PM   #16
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Quote:
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My opinion is that the CUP+ are still better than all others, including the Corsa. But ignorring the difference in rubber, the M3 is truly amazing considering how much difference there is in price.
Not disagreeing with you, but didn't Car & Driver test the Cup+ tires to only be marginally better than the PS2s on the track? I actually genuinely want to know, my PS2s are wearing thin on my NA-spec M3. I am in a serious debate right now trying to decide between: Bridgestone RE-11, Yoko ADVAN AD08, & Falken RT-615. This is for mostly street use; with a bit of light track use thrown in (maybe 3-4 days in the year.)

If the Cup+ are really that much better, I could possibly be persuaded to spend the extra $$$ on them though.
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      01-04-2010, 05:37 PM   #17
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I did touch on this quite a long time ago. The improvement will vary greatly depending on the track, the more lateral Gs involved the better the difference but the main benefit is they last and don't over heat.

Name me the track in question and better still supply a link to the article for me to read and I may be able to give a better opinion on the results.
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      01-04-2010, 06:09 PM   #18
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http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...olt-ons_page_2

Quote:
Here are two truths about self-respecting M3 coupe owners: They would not even consider the optional sunroof that eliminates the distinctive carbon-fiber roof, and it’s likely they will end up driving their cars at a racetrack. That second sure thing happened to us as pseudo-owners, and after a handful of laps we’d obliterated the tread on the stock Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires. They simply can’t cope with the amount of heat generated by this 3600-pound thrill machine at its flaming limits.

So we went looking for stickier, street-legal track tires—commonly referred to as “R compound”—but finding them in either the M3’s standard 18-inch size or the optional 19-inch dimension was difficult. However, Michelin has one, a BMW-specific version of its Pilot Sport Cup tires, in only the 19-inch size. In fact, these tires originated with the Euro-only, lightweight CSL edition of the previous-generation M3.

Available only as a replacement tire, this “Sport Cup +” version (fronts, $353 each; rears, $416) features additional grooving in the tread, which compromises stiffness to be friendlier in the rain (which it is) compared with an off-the-shelf Sport Cup. And these tires are also able to withstand higher temperatures than the stock PS2s. Unfortunately, skidpad results were no better with the Sport Cups (0.96 g), and braking (156 feet) was a bit worse.

We returned to the 1.9-mile GingerMan Raceway in South Haven, Michigan, where we’d chewed up our stock tires, with much improved results. Although it didn’t feel like there was a whole lot more stick in the corners (our best time was a 1:38.1), more important, lap times remained consistent. But after almost 1000 street miles and a couple of dozen hard laps at GingerMan, the fronts (see photo) had 2/32nds of an inch of tread left. The rears fared better, only burning through half (3/32-inch) of their tread. Even though the BMW-specific Sport Cups didn’t outgrip the PS2s, having a tire that’s consistent and lasts significantly longer during abusive lapping is indeed a boon for the track-rat M3 owner. ——Dave VanderWerp
Shouldn't the car not be much faster for a quick 1 lap than the PS2 since their grip level is so similar? Keep in mind I'll mostly be using the car on the streets.
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      01-04-2010, 06:20 PM   #19
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Did I miss something, what was the difference in lap times between the two.
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      01-04-2010, 06:23 PM   #20
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I was referring to the skid pad & braking result which were virtually the same PS2 vs. PSC+
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      01-04-2010, 06:34 PM   #21
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Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG Black Series
-507 hp
-0-100 km/h: 4,5 s

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      01-05-2010, 12:49 AM   #22
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Quote:
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I was referring to the skid pad & braking result which were virtually the same PS2 vs. PSC+
Don't read too much into these results.
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