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      02-27-2010, 12:02 PM   #1
e.n335
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Engine tuning, characteristics and and financial criterias

hi,

now, from the characteristics I would say, stroke this engine. This will be $23K plus other hardware like charge pipe and enhanced throttle bodies plus installation. probably you end up with $30K. will provide 500 hp, safe.

my favourite supercharger would be g-power stage I ( 3psi only, intercooled ). provides 500 hp as well for $13 - 14K installed. tune has yet to justify to be reliable.

ecu-tune and some bolt-on hardware. This will provide 460 - 470 hp for $ 7-8K. basicly ecu-flash, at least high-flow primary catalysts, charge-pipe and filter, maybe other exhaust mods and / or pulley. tune should be reliable.

now, is it worth the additional 30 hp (BTW, the numbers are crank) to pay + $7K (g-power) or + $23K (dinan) to get them ? in general i tend to say the V8 in the M3 should keep natural aspirated. i also dislike the whining you can hear with ESS supercharger systems (youtube) and don't know about g-power noise emissions.

driving characteristics should be comparable to stock, just stronger.

what are your opinions ?

thanks for your feedback.

eugen.
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      02-27-2010, 12:09 PM   #2
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Well the GPower kit is very nice.

its actually very quite until you turn the M mode on .

this is a result to the intake changing places not because of the charger.

the drive is very much like an NA car just with massive amounts of torque added.

I think the only downside is that the car heats up faster but that to me is about all.

I think everyone should get a S/C kit it makes the car way more fun.
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      02-27-2010, 12:38 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN View Post
Well the GPower kit is very nice.

its actually very quite until you turn the M mode on .

this is a result to the intake changing places not because of the charger.

the drive is very much like an NA car just with massive amounts of torque added.

I think the only downside is that the car heats up faster but that to me is about all.

I think everyone should get a S/C kit it makes the car way more fun.
thanks for your feedback. when i discussed with g-power it turned out that they are working on a Swiss homologation for stage I, to be expected in Q3 / 2010. modding the exhaust is very sensitive here where i live. however, good metallic catalysts like HJS should be able to cover this.

how did you manage to get rid of the orange color ? g-power will not make the kit for me in a different color like black, it's their corporate identity .

eugen
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      02-27-2010, 12:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
thanks for your feedback. when i discussed with g-power it turned out that they are working on a Swiss homologation. modding the exhaust is very sensitive here where i live. however, good metallic catalysts like HJS should be able to cover this.

how did you manage to get rid of the orange color ? g-power will not make the kit for me in a different color like black, it's their corporate identity .

eugen

I would recommend ESS via IND if you do not like your NA car!
Ask for Nate or Ilia and tell them my regards.
They will give you a good quote

Ralf
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      02-27-2010, 12:48 PM   #5
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i like my NA car ...
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      02-27-2010, 12:51 PM   #6
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i like my NA car ...
In my oppinion ESS tops G-Power!
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      02-27-2010, 01:01 PM   #7
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In my oppinion ESS tops G-Power!
how ? their stage I comes without intercooler, higher PSI ( > PSI = > heat ) and stage II will never have a chance to be homologated here ( in Switzerland stock power +20% is basicly fine, still has to be approved and i don't want to deal with regular checks, insurance- or street-legal issues ).

in addition, the ESS solution makes noise i never expected. ever heared a Mini Cooper S supercharger sound like this ?
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      02-27-2010, 03:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
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how ? their stage I comes without intercooler, higher PSI ( > PSI = > heat ) and stage II will never have a chance to be homologated here ( in Switzerland stock power +20% is basicly fine, still has to be approved and i don't want to deal with regular checks, insurance- or street-legal issues ).

in addition, the ESS solution makes noise i never expected. ever heared a Mini Cooper S supercharger sound like this ?
If you are trying to keep within your local laws then I'd say your best bet is to just do bolt-ons...

Powerchip Stage III ECU Flash is supposed to give +40WHP in the tune alone - I just got it and although I haven't dyno'ed it, it definitely feels a LOT faster, especially up in the high RPMs (below is a comparison between the two using ECU logging, which incorporates the "Actual Torque" value logged by the ECU, note the modified car also had BMC air filter, charge pipe and air scoops added)...

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      02-27-2010, 04:18 PM   #9
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Hi Eugene!
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      02-27-2010, 04:20 PM   #10
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Hi
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      02-27-2010, 04:22 PM   #11
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You come here often?
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      02-27-2010, 04:26 PM   #12
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new here. got the M3 on Wed. still on e90post.
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      02-27-2010, 04:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixja View Post
If you are trying to keep within your local laws then I'd say your best bet is to just do bolt-ons...

Powerchip Stage III ECU Flash is supposed to give +40WHP in the tune alone - I just got it and although I haven't dyno'ed it, it definitely feels a LOT faster, especially up in the high RPMs (below is a comparison between the two using ECU logging, which incorporates the "Actual Torque" value logged by the ECU, note the modified car also had BMC air filter, charge pipe and air scoops added)...

Is this confirmed here ?
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      02-27-2010, 04:50 PM   #14
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new here. got the M3 on Wed. still on e90post.
When I saw this thread I had to check the address to make sure I wasn't on e90. +1 for Powerechip software. Also, check PencilGeek's sticky for more info.

Welcome here Eugen. What took you so long to convert to n/a?
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      02-27-2010, 05:35 PM   #15
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I have the ESS and i dont mind the whine its not as loud as the videos make it seem ,
+ if your looking for one of the most reliable SC'd Kits available ,ESS is the way to go !!
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      02-27-2010, 07:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e.n335 View Post
thanks for your feedback. when i discussed with g-power it turned out that they are working on a Swiss homologation for stage I, to be expected in Q3 / 2010. modding the exhaust is very sensitive here where i live. however, good metallic catalysts like HJS should be able to cover this.

how did you manage to get rid of the orange color ? g-power will not make the kit for me in a different color like black, it's their corporate identity .

eugen
I had the orange repainted here in Taiwan. But I don't think it is that hard to repaint something like this.

I like how G-power performance so far. I mean with my set up right now I still have the fastest 6MT 60-130 ( except for PGs stroker S/C). So seems pretty good.

But this may only be because ESS and Gintani have not put up their times yet.

so I am still waiting .... but anyways I am happy with my time so far.
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      02-27-2010, 08:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post


Both ESS and Gintani customers have posted 60-130 times -- just not for 6MT -- they posted DCT times. But the companies themselves haven't really posted anything. Here's what I've seen on the forum. If I missed something, please be sure to add it to the list. (Remember, these are DCT times which should be about 1-1.1 seconds faster than 6MT.)

Customers:
  • (Gintani) Sammy Russo posted 8.94.
  • (ESS) BigLare posted 8.56

Companies:
  • (Gintani) I haven't seen anything from Gintani Company for 60-130.
  • (ESS) Roman posted 8.84 60-130.
I know PG. I am waiting for more 6MT cars to go out and make some times so we can keep good records and have better understandings, which is really fun.
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      02-27-2010, 08:55 PM   #18
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someone local or in the tri state area with a Vbox PM me , i'll see what mine does , On the BMW performance steering wheel i trap a 9 sec run with a passenger ( 210lbs) and a full tank of gas & trunk full of kitchen hardware weighing around 150 lbs ..
So im almost certain ill hit the high 8's

FYI im not buying one cause i just ordered 11k worth of goodies for the car ( stay tunned )
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      02-27-2010, 11:35 PM   #19
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someone local or in the tri state area with a Vbox PM me , i'll see what mine does , On the BMW performance steering wheel i trap a 9 sec run with a passenger ( 210lbs) and a full tank of gas & trunk full of kitchen hardware weighing around 150 lbs ..
So im almost certain ill hit the high 8's

FYI im not buying one cause i just ordered 11k worth of goodies for the car ( stay tunned )
Come one guys we need some help here.
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      02-28-2010, 03:25 AM   #20
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I wrote the software that generates these "Virtual Dyno's." Unfortunately, I've come to believe they are not entirely accurate. In fact, I think the "Actual Torque" value output by the ECU is largely what was programmed by the ECU tuner. Here's an example. When I was NA, the Virtual Dyno said I was 540 horsepower (or so, I don't remember the exact number and I'm not going to look it up). But now that I've got a supercharger, the Virtual Dyno reports about 430hp. That's why I think the results of the Virtual Dyno are dependant on how the ECU was programmed.
Yeah it definitely sounds suspect based upon what you've seen...

Here's a graph of Mass Air Flow vs Engine RPM for the same two comparisons (stock vs Powerchip Stage III + Envy Charge Pipe + Scoops + BMC Filter) which tells a similar story - basically 15% more air flow at redline...

Note the Y axis is the raw output of the Bavarian Tech tool - not sure what formula is used to convert this to a measurement unit such as g/s or similar, but the most important thing here is the comparison between stock and modified...

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      02-28-2010, 03:37 AM   #21
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Is this confirmed here ?
I saw the first dyno chart of this software - unfortunately I can't publish it as I accidentally deleted the email (and Powerchip asked me not to as well) but it confirmed +40WHP on a Dyno Dynamics (rolling road) dyno in Australia.

I've already had the older Powerchip tune which has many times been shown to generate +20WHP or so and the new tune feels similar up until about 5500-6000RPM, where the car now just accelerates really hard. The car is breaking traction considerably on the 2nd to 3rd gear change (DCT) with traction control off in dry weather on good surface.

The extra power in the new tune apparently comes from some changes in the VANOS mapping - the car almost gets a VTEC like feeling...

Only one problem though - I am getting a CEL sometimes due to torque limits being reached - but easy enough for Powerchip to increase these...
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      02-28-2010, 03:44 AM   #22
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Yeah it definitely sounds suspect based upon what you've seen...

Here's a graph of Mass Air Flow vs Engine RPM for the same two comparisons (stock vs Powerchip Stage III + Envy Charge Pipe + Scoops + BMC Filter) which tells a similar story - basically 15% more air flow at redline...

Note the Y axis is the raw output of the Bavarian Tech tool - not sure what formula is used to convert this to a measurement unit such as g/s or similar, but the most important thing here is the comparison between stock and modified...

It's quite possible the Y axis is mass air flow in kg/hour x 10 (Bavarian Tech tool often has these types of formulas) - if this is the case, the stock car peaked at 1150 kg/h (319.4 g/s) whereas the modified car peaked at 1300 kg/h (361.1 g/s).

If you take the rule of thumb that 0.8 g/s = 1HP, this would suggest the stock car was making around 400HP and the modified car was making just over 450HP...
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