BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Wheels + Tires Sponsored by The Tire Rack
  TireRack

KEEP M3POST ALIVE BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER LINK!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-07-2015, 09:51 AM   #1
Billj747
Captain
Billj747's Avatar
United_States
80
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: Everything
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoFlo

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Billj747
MotoIQ Project E90 M3 - Track Testing Wheels & Tires

Hey guys,

We just installed a new set of VMR V703 wheels and Continental DW tires on Project E90 M3 and headed over to Palm Beach International Raceway to do some hot laps complete with Motec data to see how this setup performs.

The lap time and cornering G's surprised us, check it out here:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...and-Tires.aspx




Part 1 thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=943053

Part 2 thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...8#post15436248

Part 3 thread: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1157527


Enjoy!
Appreciate 1
      09-07-2015, 01:39 PM   #2
cenix
Captain
cenix's Avatar
United_States
196
Rep
793
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 ZCP, F15
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (5)

Nice article, thanks for sharing. My favorite factoid (which I totally agree with) that you guys posted was this:

"In addition, the car is severely under-tired for its weight with 245/265 width tires that are not wide enough to hold up to serious track use.* To make the M3 more trackable, it’s common practice to run race compound brake pads, a 275 square or 275/295 staggered tire setup which greatly increases the tire volume, and to remove the rear seats and replace the heavy 10-way adjustable electric seats with racing buckets to shave off a few hundred pounds."
Appreciate 0
      09-08-2015, 12:30 PM   #3
mo @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
127
Rep
653
Posts


Drives: BMW
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (0)

Great review! you can never go wrong with that set up
__________________
Mo O. | european auto source (eas)
email: mo@europeanautosource.com web: www.europeanautosource.com tel 866.669.0705 ca: 714.369.8524 x26

GET DAILY UPDATES ON OUR BLOG FACEBOOK YOUTUBE FLICKR INSTAGRAM
Appreciate 0
      09-09-2015, 10:16 PM   #4
pbonsalb
Brigadier General
313
Rep
3,832
Posts

Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

Apex are lighter than VMR and DW are cruiser tires, but overall still greater performance than stock. Not a bad combination since DW are light like PSS, but not the best possible combo.
Appreciate 0
      09-09-2015, 10:32 PM   #5
Billj747
Captain
Billj747's Avatar
United_States
80
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: Everything
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoFlo

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Billj747
Apex don't look as close to the CSL wheel as the VMR and cost more. It's hard to beat the wet/dry performance per dollar for a DAILY DRIVER than this setup. There's only one tire that's as good/better as the DW for wet/dry performance. I've been quite happy with the results.
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2017, 12:55 AM   #6
whats77inaname
Native Texan
United_States
452
Rep
3,258
Posts

Drives: when at all possible
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tx

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
Apex don't look as close to the CSL wheel as the VMR and cost more. It's hard to beat the wet/dry performance per dollar for a DAILY DRIVER than this setup. There's only one tire that's as good/better as the DW for wet/dry performance. I've been quite happy with the results.
Because those tires are on clearance for $202/each for the rears, yeah, the bang for the buck is hard to beat. But I also daily drive R888s in wet/dry conditions, and I have to say that I have no complaints.
Appreciate 0
      02-23-2017, 09:47 AM   #7
Richbot
Brigadier General
312
Rep
3,193
Posts

Drives: Jerez Black E90
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: STL

iTrader: (3)

eek zombie thread!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2017, 12:57 PM   #8
Billj747
Captain
Billj747's Avatar
United_States
80
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: Everything
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoFlo

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Billj747
Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
Because those tires are on clearance for $202/each for the rears, yeah, the bang for the buck is hard to beat. But I also daily drive R888s in wet/dry conditions, and I have to say that I have no complaints.
Only 1 tire had as good of wet/dry performance as the DW, and that was the Michelin PSS.

The DW is on clearance because their new ExtremeContact SPORT is significantly better:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...act-Sport.aspx

(ExtremeContact SPORT - tire test by MotoIQ with Motec Data from Palm Beach International Raceway)
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2017, 01:18 PM   #9
Z K
Brigadier General
Z K's Avatar
United_States
586
Rep
3,753
Posts

Drives: E90 M3, MK6 GLI
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

Hopefully the new ExtremeContact Sport is good... the DW was cheap which is what it had going for it. I bought them on sale for my daily driver a few years ago. Otherwise I wasn't very impressed.

I've had the PSS (on M3) and the DW (on daily driver) before. The PSS was a good street tire but the outer edge chunks apart on track and it doesn't last long. It also had soft sidewalls that muted the turn in response. The DW has even softer sidewalls... again a good street tire but definitely not good on track.

Right now running AD08R on my weekend track day car and the new Pirelli P Zero PZ4 on my daily driver. I think I'll wait for another extreme performance tire that is as track and street friendly as the AD08R. I'm pretty impressed with the PZ4 as well, a lot more grippy and quiet than the DW.

The real comparison for these max performance tires will be the Michelin PS4S vs the ExtremeContact Sport vs the Pirelli PZ4 and whatever else new gen tires are out now.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!

Last edited by Z K; 02-28-2017 at 01:23 PM.
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2017, 01:22 PM   #10
whats77inaname
Native Texan
United_States
452
Rep
3,258
Posts

Drives: when at all possible
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tx

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
Only 1 tire had as good of wet/dry performance as the DW, and that was the Michelin PSS.

The DW is on clearance because their new ExtremeContact SPORT is significantly better:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...act-Sport.aspx

(ExtremeContact SPORT - tire test by MotoIQ with Motec Data from Palm Beach International Raceway)
Not disputing why the tire is up for sale, I'm agreeing with you that the bang for the buck is awesome. As far as the PSS vs the R888, I've run them both, as well as PS2s. I hardly ever drive the car in the rain as most of the time I drive the truck (you guys follow me on IG, you should know that *lol*) but I was just saying that for the times I've driven it in the rain on the R888s, there's been no drama.
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2017, 01:32 PM   #11
Billj747
Captain
Billj747's Avatar
United_States
80
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: Everything
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoFlo

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Billj747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
Hopefully the new ExtremeContact Sport is good... the DW was cheap which is what it had going for it. I bought them on sale for my daily driver a few years ago. Otherwise I wasn't very impressed.

I've had the PSS (on M3) and the DW (on daily driver) before. The PSS was a good street tire but the outer edge chunks apart on track and it doesn't last long. It also had soft sidewalls that muted the turn in response. The DW has even softer sidewalls... again a good street tire but definitely not good on track.

Right now running AD08R on my weekend track day car and the new Pirelli P Zero PZ4 on my daily driver. I think I'll wait for another extreme performance tire that is as track and street friendly as the AD08R. I'm pretty impressed with the PZ4 as well, a lot more grippy and quiet than the DW.

The real comparison for these max performance tires will be the Michelin PS4S vs the ExtremeContact Sport vs the Pirelli PZ4 and whatever else new gen tires are out now.
If the edges are chunking, you either dont have enough camber and/or the tire is too small for the car. PSS' hold up very well on a GT350 Mustang, but it has much wider tires than what's even typically run on aftermarket wheels for M3s. This is a good article to read in regards to sizing and selecting tires:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...RFORMANCE.aspx

If you have a heavy car and small tires, you need to go to a more aggressive track-focused tire to make it live on track. If you have a good weight:tread ratio, a less track-focused tire with better wet characteristics will live and work - like the GT350.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
Not disputing why the tire is up for sale, I'm agreeing with you that the bang for the buck is awesome. As far as the PSS vs the R888, I've run them both, as well as PS2s. I hardly ever drive the car in the rain as most of the time I drive the truck (you guys follow me on IG, you should know that *lol*) but I was just saying that for the times I've driven it in the rain on the R888s, there's been no drama.
The PS2, PSS, PS4S, ExtremeContact DW & Sport are UHP tires.

The R888, MPSC2, TrofeoR are "Streetable Track & Competition" tires - a completely different class of tire that's track-focused.

The AD08R, RS3, StarSpec, GoodYear Eagle F1 Supercar G3, are "Extreme Performance Summer Tires" -that is a middleground between the above.


I've also run R888s in the wet and while I agree they're alright, you can't really compare it to a UHP tire that is FAR better in the wet and not as track focused.
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2017, 01:51 PM   #12
whats77inaname
Native Texan
United_States
452
Rep
3,258
Posts

Drives: when at all possible
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tx

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
I've also run R888s in the wet and while I agree they're alright, you can't really compare it to a UHP tire that is FAR better in the wet and not as track focused.
Agreed
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2017, 01:57 PM   #13
Z K
Brigadier General
Z K's Avatar
United_States
586
Rep
3,753
Posts

Drives: E90 M3, MK6 GLI
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
If the edges are chunking, you either dont have enough camber and/or the tire is too small for the car. PSS' hold up very well on a GT350 Mustang, but it has much wider tires than what's even typically run on aftermarket wheels for M3s. This is a good article to read in regards to sizing and selecting tires:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...RFORMANCE.aspx

If you have a heavy car and small tires, you need to go to a more aggressive track-focused tire to make it live on track. If you have a good weight:tread ratio, a less track-focused tire with better wet characteristics will live and work - like the GT350.
I am running the stock size tires on the stock wheels. I have KW suspension but no camber plates so the front camber is not adjustable. As for the chunking, I've only seen it on the PSS. The AD08R is holding up fine. I've put them through 6 track days and 10k miles of daily driving and they still have plenty of tread.

I'll definitely take the advise to get more tire though. The rear breaks loose a little more than I'd like on throttle and the front can use a bit more grip.

I did a track day at Laguna Seca during a storm... Thunder, lightning and tons of water coming down. We were driving around with the wipers going full speed and limited visibility. Tons of standing water and streams flowing across the track... It wasn't very fast but the AD08R was okay. Lots of sliding and spinning.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2017, 02:12 PM   #14
Billj747
Captain
Billj747's Avatar
United_States
80
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: Everything
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoFlo

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Billj747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
I am running the stock size tires on the stock wheels. I have KW suspension but no camber plates so the front camber is not adjustable. As for the chunking, I've only seen it on the PSS. The AD08R is holding up fine. I've put them through 6 track days and 10k miles of daily driving and they still have plenty of tread.

I'll definitely take the advise to get more tire though. The rear breaks loose a little more than I'd like on throttle and the front can use a bit more grip.

I did a track day at Laguna Seca during a storm... Thunder, lightning and tons of water coming down. We were driving around with the wipers going full speed and limited visibility. Tons of standing water and streams flowing across the track... It wasn't very fast but the AD08R was okay. Lots of sliding and spinning.
The E9X M3 is severely under-tired. The AD08R is a more aggressive and track-focused tire (with a worse ride quality, noise, life, wet performance) than the PSS. It does not surprise me that it holds up to track use better than a PSS.

You might want to consider camber plates to get at least -1.5* of front camber. That will greatly increase the longevity of the tire. You'll probably need 275-295 or 295-305 width tires to make PSS last on track.
Appreciate 0
      02-28-2017, 02:32 PM   #15
Z K
Brigadier General
Z K's Avatar
United_States
586
Rep
3,753
Posts

Drives: E90 M3, MK6 GLI
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
The E9X M3 is severely under-tired. The AD08R is a more aggressive and track-focused tire (with a worse ride quality, noise, life, wet performance) than the PSS. It does not surprise me that it holds up to track use better than a PSS.

You might want to consider camber plates to get at least -1.5* of front camber. That will greatly increase the longevity of the tire. You'll probably need 275-295 or 295-305 width tires to make PSS last on track.
I have 1.2 degrees of camber in front from removing the top strut pin and pushing in the top as much as possible.

Definitely looking at increasing the tire size. I was getting rubbing on the rear fender liner with AD08R stock size rear tires and a 10mm spacer so I don't think I can run that wide in back. I can maybe fit a 275 in back if I stick to the AD08R. Otherwise I'd shave the fender liner off.
__________________
Auto Detailing Enthusiast!
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2017, 12:11 PM   #16
Billj747
Captain
Billj747's Avatar
United_States
80
Rep
647
Posts

Drives: Everything
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SoFlo

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to Billj747
AD08's run wide.

The BMW-spec PSS & the brand new Continental ExtremeContact Sport have:

-10.7" Section Widths
-9.4" Tread Widths.


The AD08R has a:

-10.5" Section Width
-10.2" Tread Width. (0.6" wider than PSS)
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
e90 m3, project e90 m3, track test

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:05 PM.




m3post
m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST