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      03-23-2018, 05:33 PM   #1
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BEST BBK on the market?

My 3rd year on My Stoptechs and they finally need rebuilding and I would like to try something else, quality and strictly race inspired. Who is running the below applications and how do you rate them?

1)PFC - 4 piston from Bimmerworld?
2) AP Essex Radical 6 piston ?

And anything else anyone would like to add.
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      03-23-2018, 05:41 PM   #2
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I think the 2 answers are either the PFC BBK or the RadiCal

I have the PFC on two cars and have run it on three.
-One full BBK
-Another full BBK
-A front BBK and rear stock

On the full BBK in my primary track car I've put roughly 100 track days on it before needing a rebuild.
I run no cooling/ducting and just have insane stopping power everywhere. I regularly use braking zones to 'catch up' to cars who thought it was funny to drag race me down the straights.

Front pads and rotors last around 30 days, the rears are 3-4x that.

I can't imagine anything better for brakes exists. I don't do anything special other than beat on them and they work perfectly, never any knockback, just pure wonderfulness.

Front pads are 28mm thick. It's easy to forget this comparing other kits, but basically the pads last forever.

Now there's also the RadiCal setup which seems to be of similar quality. I haven't tried it so I cannot say the PFC setup is better than the RadiCal, but it's likely these are both the top quality things you can buy.


The setup is so good the owner of the car with the first PFC BBK I was talking about was instructing a student, driving his F458 and much preferred the PFC bbk to the CCBs that car runs. Now this person has bought a M4 GTS and I wouldn't be surprised if we end up installing a PFC BBK on that and removing the CCBs
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      03-23-2018, 05:54 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I think the 2 answers are either the PFC BBK or the RadiCal

I have the PFC on two cars and have run it on three.
-One full BBK
-Another full BBK
-A front BBK and rear stock

On the full BBK in my primary track car I've put roughly 100 track days on it before needing a rebuild.
I run no cooling/ducting and just have insane stopping power everywhere. I regularly use braking zones to 'catch up' to cars who thought it was funny to drag race me down the straights.

Front pads and rotors last around 30 days, the rears are 3-4x that.

I can't imagine anything better for brakes exists. I don't do anything special other than beat on them and they work perfectly, never any knockback, just pure wonderfulness.

Front pads are 28mm thick. It's easy to forget this comparing other kits, but basically the pads last forever.

Now there's also the RadiCal setup which seems to be of similar quality. I haven't tried it so I cannot say the PFC setup is better than the RadiCal, but it's likely these are both the top quality things you can buy.


The setup is so good the owner of the car with the first PFC BBK I was talking about was instructing a student, driving his F458 and much preferred the PFC bbk to the CCBs that car runs. Now this person has bought a M4 GTS and I wouldn't be surprised if we end up installing a PFC BBK on that and removing the CCBs
Well that clears things up !

Much thanks! Btw doing SCDA at all coming up? LRP is next sat.
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      03-23-2018, 06:23 PM   #4
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You've listed the top two brake kits on the market. I have PFC on my e92 M3 and Essex/AP on my f82 M4 (PFC has not released a kit for the f8x yet). You can't go wrong with either brake kit. Essex/AP 9668 F caliper uses a 25 mm thick pad so it's close to the 28 mm thick pad in the PFC Z54 F caliper. The Essex/AP 9660 F caliper uses a 17 mm thick pad.
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      03-23-2018, 07:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksm3 View Post
Well that clears things up !

Much thanks! Btw doing SCDA at all coming up? LRP is next sat.
Basically, it's inconceivable to me that there's anything better than the PFC. If I had 50k to spend on brakes I don't think I'd get something else.

There hasn't been one time when I've felt anything other than perfection from them
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      03-23-2018, 08:06 PM   #6
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Well, you are getting opinions from some pretty hard-core track junkies.
I have the Z-54 PCF system like SYT above has as well (he was partly responsible for me going with this set up).

Not too much to add. No pad knock back, are super consistent lap after lap. I was taught to check the brakes (just a quick tap) to make sure they are still there before going into a heavy braking zone and this set up is super consistent.

I just ran VIR last weekend with Z-54 front and stock rear (caliper bushing kit only + PFC track pads) and it was totally confidence inspiring. Honestly, I wish I had converted over to BBK some time ago as I've been running stock calipers (PFC rotors) since the car was new and I just changed over in June of last year.

My car is dual purpose, it takes me to work every day and it's super easy to change pads back to street and they are noiseless and durable.

The only downside for both PFC and Essex kits is the cost of entry is going up slowly over time. The initial purchase price is costly (check out prices for the GT3 systems!), but if you use it a lot, it will pay off in the long run.
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      03-23-2018, 09:15 PM   #7
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I think Bimmerworld has a sale in memorial day or something that brings te front kit down to like 3k
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      03-23-2018, 09:32 PM   #8
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Essex radical AP.

Check out the last few pages in dogbone's build thread in the track forum.
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      03-24-2018, 05:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I think Bimmerworld has a sale in memorial day or something that brings te front kit down to like 3k
This is a plus in my current situation!
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      03-24-2018, 05:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
Essex radical AP.

Check out the last few pages in dogbone's build thread in the track forum.
I’ll check it out, thank you!
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      03-24-2018, 05:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3SQRD View Post
You've listed the top two brake kits on the market. I have PFC on my e92 M3 and Essex/AP on my f82 M4 (PFC has not released a kit for the f8x yet). You can't go wrong with either brake kit. Essex/AP 9668 F caliper uses a 25 mm thick pad so it's close to the 28 mm thick pad in the PFC Z54 F caliper. The Essex/AP 9660 F caliper uses a 17 mm thick pad.
Thanks man, Curious because I loved my Stoptech st60 6 piston kit but I wanted feedback from AP and PFC owners especially the PFC 4 piston kit. Gearing towards more track oriented brakes now.
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      03-24-2018, 06:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Basically, it's inconceivable to me that there's anything better than the PFC. If I had 50k to spend on brakes I don't think I'd get something else.
What about the CCB kits that are out there for the E92?
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      03-24-2018, 06:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTony View Post
What about the CCB kits that are out there for the E92?
I still wouldn't swap. At the point where a kit provides infinite braking power, why would I switch?

If there had been one time they had felt weird, or had a knockback experience or something then I would think differently
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      03-24-2018, 08:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I still wouldn't swap. At the point where a kit provides infinite braking power, why would I switch?

If there had been one time they had felt weird, or had a knockback experience or something then I would think differently
Agreed. Also, the running costs will be considerably higher with a CCB setup that has no performance advantage (except reduced unsprung weight). PFC rotors last a very long time so I wouldn't be surprised if the CCB rotors need to be replaced before the PFC rotors.
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      03-24-2018, 08:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksm3 View Post
Thanks man, Curious because I loved my Stoptech st60 6 piston kit but I wanted feedback from AP and PFC owners especially the PFC 4 piston kit. Gearing towards more track oriented brakes now.
I'd have PFC on my M4 if they had a kit available for it (no ETA either when I talked to them even though the M235iR Z54 brake setup is a direct fit on the f8x). A four piston caliper isn't inferior to a six piston caliper. Reducing pad taper is a primary reason why six pistons are used but a properly designed four piston caliper won't have pad taper issues.
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      03-24-2018, 09:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I still wouldn't swap. At the point where a kit provides infinite braking power, why would I switch?

If there had been one time they had felt weird, or had a knockback experience or something then I would think differently
which kit do you have? i've heard great things about pfc.
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      03-24-2018, 09:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3SQRD View Post
I'd have PFC on my M4 if they had a kit available for it (no ETA either when I talked to them even though the M235iR Z54 brake setup is a direct fit on the f8x). A four piston caliper isn't inferior to a six piston caliper. Reducing pad taper is a primary reason why six pistons are used but a properly designed four piston caliper won't have pad taper issues.
I was willing to do pretty much anything to get them on the track only M4 i was considering.
Bimmerworld had offered to get them built as a one off. It can't be that hard!
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      03-24-2018, 09:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
which kit do you have? i've heard great things about pfc.
On the primary track car I have the full pfc bbk, which is the z54 front caliper and the z45 rear

On the secondary track car i have only the front z54 kit
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      03-24-2018, 09:33 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I was willing to do pretty much anything to get them on the track only M4 i was considering.
Bimmerworld had offered to get them built as a one off. It can't be that hard!
I was working with BW (I've been working with James for 15+ years), as well as talking to PFC, but the best I could get at the time was "maybe in a year or two".
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      03-24-2018, 09:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
On the primary track car I have the full pfc bbk, which is the z54 front caliper and the z45 rear

On the secondary track car i have only the front z54 kit
its hard to seek out info on their kits... they don't seem to put much info out there.
i heard one of their kits has anti-knockback springs, but also keeps the pads slightly off of the rotors, which helps with cooling. i don't know what such a system would be called, but i found it interesting.
i have anti-knockback springs, and have never experienced knockback with my ap cp5060/5040 kit, but with race pads in and set- a rotor is somewhat difficult to turn by hand. a free spinning rotor with the combo of anti-knockback springs would be pretty damn cool.
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      03-24-2018, 10:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3SQRD View Post
I was working with BW (I've been working with James for 15+ years), as well as talking to PFC, but the best I could get at the time was "maybe in a year or two".
We have a forum member here who could build them himself! It's a matter of supplying sufficient beer!!

We'll see what happens this year. Methinks the owner of the M4 GTS who used to track the full pfc bbk will end up wanting to replace the ceramics with those
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      03-24-2018, 11:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
its hard to seek out info on their kits... they don't seem to put much info out there.
i heard one of their kits has anti-knockback springs, but also keeps the pads slightly off of the rotors, which helps with cooling. i don't know what such a system would be called, but i found it interesting.
i have anti-knockback springs, and have never experienced knockback with my ap cp5060/5040 kit, but with race pads in and set- a rotor is somewhat difficult to turn by hand. a free spinning rotor with the combo of anti-knockback springs would be pretty damn cool.
Yes, marketing is really not their strong suit.
I was very pleasantly surprised that they took around 1 week to turnaround a full rebuild of my setup.

If i remember correctly, the z54 kit uses the 'zero drag' setup and it isn't hard to turn the wheels by hand. I don't know if i have knockback springs or not, but don't tap the brakes before going into braking zones and never pump twice
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