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      12-16-2009, 11:55 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by FStop7 View Post
how about making it handle
You sir just won the post of the thread award!
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      12-17-2009, 12:04 AM   #24
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In other words, the defense rests.
Recognizing sarcasm obviously isn't your forte
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      12-17-2009, 12:56 AM   #25
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the average Merc owner dont dont give a rats ass about 2-3sec behind on trackdays. it all about braggin' rights on the streets. .02
+1 Sort Of

The reality is most of these cars are driven on public roads. I think the problem many potential M3 buyers like myself (Most of whom already owned an E46 M3) realized that with the E92 M3 you couldn't tap it's full potential on public roads. While with the C63 you feel like you are actually using what you are paying for. I mean honestly if your using these cars as DD how many times in your average commute to work are you experiencing the dynamics of the chassis as oppose to the brute force of the acceleration?
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      12-17-2009, 02:20 AM   #26
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I felt the difference even on off-ramps or driving on cobblestone roads. The M3 just felt more solid. Plus the Merc interior felt very cold, industrial.
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      12-17-2009, 02:45 AM   #27
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I love my M3 and certainly have no regrets, but I remember my test drive of the C63 very, very clearly... and it was an absolute blast. The engine was more "powerful" than "special", but man-oh-man was that power awesome. Def. the most insane car I've ever driven.

Can't imagine what it would feel like with even more power.
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      12-17-2009, 03:29 AM   #28
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Me wants TT I6 new M3 =D
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      12-17-2009, 06:34 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihyln View Post
should be a lot of fun revving that thing to 5k
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      12-17-2009, 07:31 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihyln View Post
should be a lot of fun revving that thing to 5k
lol, but hoestly, I bet the red line stays about where it is. I think the current 6.2L M156 AMG V8 revs to 7200 RPM in pretty much every incarnation. I'll bet that the new 5.5L turbo will be pretty similar. Maybe a couple hundred RPM lower.

Anyone else skeptical this will all happen for MY 2011? I am thinking that this will be a more phased roll-out. I am also curious what engine they are going to use here. They could destroke/debore the M156 and lower the compression, or they could go back to the old 5.4L M113 (with a slight displacement bump) since it has already been set up and tested extensively for forced induction (albeit supercharging instead of turbocharging). That's a SOHC 3V motor though. Then there is the 5.5L M273 that's being used in the current x550 lineup. Lots of possibilities.
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      12-17-2009, 12:27 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickypaws View Post
Recognizing sarcasm obviously isn't your forte
Isn't that just a roundabout way of calling someone stupid?

You come off as defensive by feeling the need to state that you have a track car in addition to your Merc. Then you go on to egg people on with your second comment. Which no one bit on anyway...

You're right, if there is sarcasm in there, I must have missed it.

; ) ; ) ; )
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      12-17-2009, 02:03 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Isn't that just a roundabout way of calling someone stupid?

You come off as defensive by feeling the need to state that you have a track car in addition to your Merc. Then you go on to egg people on with your second comment. Which no one bit on anyway...

You're right, if there is sarcasm in there, I must have missed it.

; ) ; ) ; )
If anything, this is the pot calling the kettle black. Your response in post #20 to FStop7 garbage comment would qualify as well. I noticed in the "M3 Vs" section that there is a rotating calendar for certain members to bash the same cars on a weekly basis. Last week it was the GT-R.This week is the C63. Next week will be the RS4. Then the S5. Followed by the IS-F. Concluding with everyone's favorite the 335.
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      12-17-2009, 03:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG_C63_AMG View Post
If anything, this is the pot calling the kettle black. Your response in post #20 to FStop7 garbage comment would qualify as well. I noticed in the "M3 Vs" section that there is a rotating calendar for certain members to bash the same cars on a weekly basis. Last week it was the GT-R.This week is the C63. Next week will be the RS4. Then the S5. Followed by the IS-F. Concluding with everyone's favorite the 335.
How does agreeing that the C63 needs better handling vs. more power egg anyone on...on a BMW BOARD? That makes no sense.

All the cars you mention are awesome machines, they just all have pros and cons - as does the M3. I find it odd, as apparently Fstop does, that they would choose to beef up the power and not address the handling...or traction control for that matter. Who knows, maybe they are. I guess I could go read a Merc board if I really wanted to know...
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      12-17-2009, 04:24 PM   #34
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so did they say how much hp/tq the new engine will put out?? i only saw the current numbers that the C63 puts out listed. maybe i missed it in all the bickering

all of these cars are fast and capable cars, its just different strokes for different folks. i personally find the mercs don't do anything for me even though they have more power etc. that is just my op. i know some people who love them and don't like bmw's. i just think this power war thing is getting out of hand. i mean really can you really use 600 plus hp?? i have seen alot of these guys can't even drive the damn thing in a safe way and adding more power to them is just gonna make it even more scary

i find that my M3 has plenty of power to keep me happy and not to much where the thing is spinning the tires everywhere. the handling is great and is just an awesome all around car. i also love a NA car that revs. that is just me though

i also have found over the years that most merc owners don't really know much about cars or there car for that matter, i think they just buy it for the name. i would be at places and ask a guy certain questions how he liked this or that about the car and he would look at me and say i have no idea what your talking about. its very fast though, it will beat anything. i just lol and would walk away. i feel the BMW guys are more car guys for the most part. note i said not all merc owners so the ones that are not like that i wasn't reffering to you and there are plenty of bmw owners who are the same way

i just think it is getting out of hand, how much power will be enough?? 800hp, 900hp?? the owners of some of these cars can't even handle what they have now. i think there are other areas of the car that money could be spent on rather then adding huge amounts of hp/tq. i love a true manual and that is one reason that has always kept me from a merc. i also love the agility of the m3, another thing the merc doesn't have. its a great car its just not for everyone

i just don't understand why guys argue so much about there cars. i don't care when i am at a stoplight and a AMG pulls up i know i will get beat to the next light. so what i don't even bother stop light racing its not worth it or the ticket or the safety when the other guy can't drive for shit

i hope BMW doesn't follow suit and will still offer a real manual and a NA engine but it looks like that is wishful thinking at this point

sorry for the rant, just enjoy what you have who cares what brand it is or how much hp you have. happy and safe new year to everyone
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      12-17-2009, 10:42 PM   #35
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Singletrack, sorry but you simply missed my making fun of myself and the stereotype of MB owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckistryke View Post
the average Merc owner dont dont give a rats ass about 2-3sec behind on trackdays. it all about braggin' rights on the streets. .02
He's making fun of MB owners here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stickypaws View Post
We do when we're in our other cars.

The MBs are just our daily drivers. Cruising in total comfort and blowing your doors off on the freeway when you're hogging the left lane.
And so I reply about we do give a rat's ass (but not in our MBs) and then of course out on the streets we act like the stereotypical a-hole in a MB always trying to blow people out of the left lane since it's "all about braggin rights on the streets" for MB owners (hah, even other MB owners do it to me all the time )

I was making fun of myself as an AMG owner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
In other words, the defense rests.
Actually I think in this case, it's the "prosecution rests," since MB owners were the ones being accused here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Isn't that just a roundabout way of calling someone stupid?

You come off as defensive by feeling the need to state that you have a track car in addition to your Merc. Then you go on to egg people on with your second comment. Which no one bit on anyway...

You're right, if there is sarcasm in there, I must have missed it.

; ) ; ) ; )
Yep, you missed it.

These stereotypes are rampant on this forum. You know, it's either Grampas and old ladies in the MBs, or Persian or Eastern Euros in their baller bling AMGs. And juvie boy racers in their 335s and M3s. Or girls with their first job in their 328 verts. Film industry execs in their orange skin tans and 997TT Porsches. It's nonsense but it's constantly brought up here on these boards.

Remember the Audi ad, "Meet the Beckers." They were picking up on it in a kinda clever way. The Audi owner even got stereotyped (as the "sensible" geek.)

It would be nice if people could discuss the cars w/o the snide comments about personalities and stupid stereotypes. It gets pretty immature, imho.

[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OfXqt0PuHQk&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OfXqt0PuHQk&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]
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      12-17-2009, 11:34 PM   #36
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.....what. amazing news but would still drive M3/RS4 over a C63 because they have the 3rd pedal
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      12-18-2009, 12:53 AM   #37
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but the 6.3L V8 is so sexy... they could easily keep the V8 and fine tune it more as they did in the higher classes
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      12-18-2009, 01:44 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickypaws View Post
......................................

[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OfXqt0PuHQk&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OfXqt0PuHQk&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]
Interesting video, I must say.

I'm just glad I'm not like the douche in the Bimmer.
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      12-19-2009, 11:03 PM   #39
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handling + DD convenience - M3 rules

M3 is the ultimate convenience of a daily driver comfort PLUS the M button that makes for a car into the real thing....Merc has received multiple reviews for stiff jarring ride and a chassis that cannot keep up with the engine power -- now Merc is putting on even more power....good luck keeping it on the road.... not sure if going fast in a straight line is it - take a pick from supercharged Mustangs/ Civics etc... it is the high speed stability / transitions/ handling that rules.....as well as a comfortable DD ....simply the winning combo....
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      12-20-2009, 04:51 PM   #40
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M3 is the ultimate convenience of a daily driver comfort PLUS the M button that makes for a car into the real thing.... it is the high speed stability / transitions/ handling that rules.....as well as a comfortable DD ....simply the winning combo....
+1
It's the best car ever made in the entire universe. Nothing can compare. Porsche, Audi, MB, AM, Jag, can't hold a candle to the M3. It's a wonder other cars even sell at all. If only those buyers knew better.

The M3 vs forum is now officially closed.
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      12-20-2009, 06:47 PM   #41
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+1
It's the best car ever made in the entire universe. Nothing can compare. Porsche, Audi, MB, AM, Jag, can't hold a candle to the M3. It's a wonder other cars even sell at all. If only those buyers knew better.

The M3 vs forum is now officially closed.
It a wonder that so many Merc, Audi & Porsche guys spend so much time over here, on the M3 forums!

They all make great cars... but it's obvious that Merc is a 'comfortable' DD (maybe)... but it's just not an 'M' competitor... they are two different philosophies...

Closest thing AMG offers to an M.. is their Black series... other than that... the AMG is far from a 'driver involving' 'M-Type' car.

AMG is still missing out on a competitive PDK/DCT type trans in the C Class cars, let alone a 6 speed.

Peace,
Dave
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      12-20-2009, 08:06 PM   #42
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It a wonder that so many Merc, Audi & Porsche guys spend so much time over here, on the M3 forums!

They all make great cars... but it's obvious that Merc is a 'comfortable' DD (maybe)... but it's just not an 'M' competitor... they are two different philosophies...

Closest thing AMG offers to an M.. is their Black series... other than that... the AMG is far from a 'driver involving' 'M-Type' car.

AMG is still missing out on a competitive PDK/DCT type trans in the C Class cars, let alone a 6 speed.

Peace,
Dave
Because I also currently own a 2002 330i. Should I take a pic and add it to my sig? Okay, I will. I also have a 4WD pick up truck.

My very first car was a 1600. I also owned a 2002tii. Then a Bavaria 3.0. Then a E36 M3. And a E39 (my personal favorite all around car.)

The E63 AMG I currently have is my DD. For comfort only (it's an E not a C) It's also got a nice motor, too.

My next car will most likely be a F10.

But neither the M3 (or any other car) is the "ultimate car." That was my point. Fanboys need to evolve from that notion.
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      12-20-2009, 09:33 PM   #43
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Forget the C63, I want the new E63. Saw one of those today (along with about 10 other new E class, I guess the recession is over) and it is gangsta.
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      12-20-2009, 11:46 PM   #44
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Just an FYI, we can make serious N/A power with the 63s and just bolt-ons, we fully expect to hit 540-560rwhp (with supporting bolt-ons) with our H/C coming in 4 weeks on 3 different 63 AMGs. We will be trapping every bit of 128-130mph and then will spray a 100 shot to get final numbers before we convert to 7.0L strokers.

Making N/A power is not even close to as easy as it is with FI. Pulley, TB and tune will not net you 100rwhp. Making N/A power requires skill, knowledge and experience above and beyond that which FI necessitates. It's easier to kill power on a cutting edge N/A race motor (like S65, S85, M156, M159) than it is to make it.

Here is Keith's (customer) current record holding C63 (MHP S3, soon to be cammed) earlier today at Orlando Speedworld, 11.44@123.64:



He's yet to hit the dyno since the install of our new 3" race catback (was used in race) but we expect 25-28rw gains based on his avg trap speed increase and reduction in 60-130 times (8.76 to 8.46 with addition of race catback).

Race catback idle vids:





We can't wait to tear into a S65.

The switch to the TT 5.5L DI 4Vs from Merc will be accompanied by a switch to the next gen of Siemens 104 byte RSA encrypted ECUs so don't expect anything but a piggyback tuning solution anytime soon.
The 2010 Audi S4, Porsche Panamera, GT2, TT are among the first to use the new family of controllers. OEMs are stepping up their game bigtime in this regard.
Even if the encryption keys are leaked we're still screwed with this ECU.

Thanks
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