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      11-26-2009, 01:26 PM   #1
elp_jc
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Unhappy Welcome to the 'everything about sloppy gear-changes' thread. Yeah, my first grind.

Well, it finally happened; my 2 decades of grind-free manual driving came to a screeching halt . Was lazily shifting from 4th to 5th (around 3K rpm), showing my daughter how to shift , knob slipped momentarily (getting used to the new ZHP knob) so took me a fraction of a second more to push the lever in, apparently didn't readjust my clutch timing correctly, and 'crrrrrrrunch'. There's always a first time, I guess, but still sucks to hurt your baby . Any 'virgin' 6MT drivers here???

Anyway, have several questions to keep the discussion more interesting:

- Does anybody know what exactly grinds on these trannies? 5th gear with idler gear? 5th gear with the synchro? If you try to shove the gear lever between gates does anything grind?

- Damage is obviously less at low rpm/throttle (like mine), than at high rpm/throttle, right?

- About how many of these sloppy gear-changes can our trannies take without any damage?

- Is that a 'best' or 'worst' gear to grind?

- Is it a good idea to change the oil early if we grind even once, and how early? Do we have a magnetic drain plug?

Felt pretty bad about my grind, but told my daughter why I love driving a manual: you ALWAYS have to be fully focused on your driving; can't get sloppy even for a second. And yes, striving for perfect gear changes all the time is a never-ending quest, and a lot of fun trying . Can't imagine ever having to drive an automatic car only. All comments welcome. And thanks for listening folks.

NOTICE: This thread is about 6MT trannies, NOT a 6MT vs DCT thread. I know DCTs shift quicker and don't grind gears, but please refrain from such comments to keep thread on topic. THANK YOU!
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      11-26-2009, 01:34 PM   #2
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Ah!

So you're not perfect after all, eh?
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      11-26-2009, 01:40 PM   #3
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I realllllllly dont think you have anything to worry about!
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      11-26-2009, 02:04 PM   #4
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i wouldnt worry about 1 grind... it happened to me a couple times on my 6MT and it still works just like new... soemtimes just like you i get a little bit too excited, gear doesnt go in as fast as i thought, release clutch, OUCHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!
as long as you dont make it an habit, you'll be just fine...
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      11-26-2009, 02:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nawaaz View Post
So you're not perfect after all, eh?
Who the hell said I was? Very different from trying to be.

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Originally Posted by slammedm3 View Post
I realllllllly dont think you have anything to worry about!
Thanks buddy. Guess am more curious what's going on in there than any damage with just one time. I'd also like to change to a different fluid (Redline) since it takes a long time for the notchiness to go away now that it's cold outside, but might resist the urge until warranty is over.

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i wouldnt worry about 1 grind... it happened to me a couple times on my 6MT and it still works just like new... soemtimes just like you i get a little bit too excited, gear doesnt go in as fast as i thought, release clutch, OUCHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!
as long as you dont make it an habit, you'll be just fine...
Funny because when I'm shifting gears without thinking about it, I always compensate correctly when knob silps, or what have you, but when I was consciously doing it, showing my daughter she could do it following the 'H' pattern, rather than one fluid motion with a bit of pressure to the right, that's when I missed. Thanks folks.
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      11-26-2009, 02:29 PM   #6
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sometimes u gotta slide it in gently but if ur timing is right u can ram it in hard
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      11-26-2009, 02:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duk View Post
sometimes u gotta slide it in gently but if ur timing is right u can ram it in hard
Yeah, the quicker you want to shift, the more critical proper timing is. I rarely shift aggressively to avoid grinding gears, especially the notchy 1-2; not worth the marginal benefit to me. It's understandable to botch a gear change while doing that, but not while just cruising .

Hey, nobody with mechanical knowledge of these trannies to know what goes on inside when grinding???
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      11-26-2009, 02:45 PM   #8
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I've had a few 1-2 grinds with this car... that shift sucks on this tranny... hasn't blown up yet though. Guess if it does I'll just fix it
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      11-26-2009, 02:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
Who the hell said I was? Very different from trying to be.

Thanks buddy. Guess am more curious what's going on in there than any damage with just one time. I'd also like to change to a different fluid (Redline) since it takes a long time for the notchiness to go away now that it's cold outside, but might resist the urge until warranty is over.

Funny because when I'm shifting gears without thinking about it, I always compensate correctly when knob silps, or what have you, but when I was consciously doing it, showing my daughter she could do it following the 'H' pattern, rather than one fluid motion with a bit of pressure to the right, that's when I missed. Thanks folks.
I was just pulling your leg man.

Good day.
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      11-26-2009, 03:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
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sometimes u gotta slide it in gently but if ur timing is right u can ram it in hard
that's what she told me last night too...
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      11-26-2009, 03:15 PM   #11
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^^ FUNNIEST POST OF THE YEAR!!!!
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      11-26-2009, 03:35 PM   #12
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Unbelievable! i can't imagine your reaction when you get a rock chip! Nonetheless, I love the love. In Italy i had a Fiat 650 with a broken clutch cable; on the floor. Talk about grinding. We'd say "if it were made of wood, there'd be a pile of sawdust under the car"! Dam thing kept on working...
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      11-26-2009, 04:00 PM   #13
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Sadly I get the gear 1-2 grind when WOT and I'm starting to believe it isn't my fault...
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      11-26-2009, 04:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Unbelievable! i can't imagine your reaction when you get a rock chip!
Me? Have several already man; wrong guess . They're expected, especially on this desert, but grinding gears is not .

Talking about that, got a nasty one on yesterday's return leg of a 1K-mile trip to pick up my daughter. Need to do something about the nastiest ones now. Will try a new method with a credit card.

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I was just pulling your leg man.
Didn't sound like it, but I'm . Take care man.
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      11-26-2009, 04:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Sadly I get the gear 1-2 grind when WOT and I'm starting to believe it isn't my fault...
Have you deleted your CDV? If you do that it should help that alot trust me.
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      11-26-2009, 04:53 PM   #16
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Have you deleted your CDV? If you do that it should help that alot trust me.
seems to be mixed opinions on this subject as EAS claims there is no restriction in the CDV, they posted pics as well.
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      11-26-2009, 05:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
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seems to be mixed opinions on this subject as EAS claims there is no restriction in the CDV, they posted pics as well.
Oh well everyone I know thats done it has said its helped alot regardless what the pics look like. The mere fact its called a Clutch DELAY Valve means it does something its not just there for decoration imo. You mostly notice the difference when shifting very fast and how it makes the 1-2 easier.
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      11-26-2009, 07:58 PM   #18
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      11-26-2009, 08:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Oh well everyone I know thats done it has said its helped alot regardless what the pics look like. The mere fact its called a Clutch DELAY Valve means it does something its not just there for decoration imo. You mostly notice the difference when shifting very fast and how it makes the 1-2 easier.
I may have to look more into this.

I did however remove the clutch pedal spring and that was a huge difference in shifting. So much easier to control the clutch with spring removed.
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      11-26-2009, 11:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J08M3 View Post
I may have to look more into this.

I did however remove the clutch pedal spring and that was a huge difference in shifting. So much easier to control the clutch with spring removed.
Niterider mentioned this to me as well I drove his car and it felt a lil stiffer.
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      11-27-2009, 12:41 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Have you deleted your CDV?
M3s don't have it, and I don't feel one either. Somebody posted a pic of the 'valve'; it's completely hollowed on the M3. Remember these cars are based on the 3 series, so BMW probably left the valve housing to avoid fabricating a dedicated M3 clutch line (understandable).

Speaking for myself, I have zero complaints with the clutch on this car; it's really great the way it is IMO. The grinding was my stupidity, not anything wrong with the tranny or clutch.

By the way, removing the spring on '08 cars (they only have one) reportedly creates problems with the cruise as the cruise deactivate switch is all the way to the top of the clutch pedal travel, and removing the spring causes the pedal to drop enough as not to allow cruise to engage, or disengages at the least provocation. Folks doing that mod should test their cruise. Owners of '09 cars can always install the '08 spring for better feel. The '08 clutch spring seems like the best compromise. Besides the cruise issue, folks who drive in heavy traffic might not appreciate a heavy clutch over the long run. A matter of personal preference.
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      11-27-2009, 01:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
M3s don't have it, and I don't feel one either. Somebody posted a pic of the 'valve'; it's completely hollowed on the M3. Remember these cars are based on the 3 series, so BMW probably left the valve housing to avoid fabricating a dedicated M3 clutch line (understandable).

Speaking for myself, I have zero complaints with the clutch on this car; it's really great the way it is IMO. The grinding was my stupidity, not anything wrong with the tranny or clutch.

By the way, removing the spring on '08 cars (they only have one) reportedly creates problems with the cruise as the cruise deactivate switch is all the way to the top of the clutch pedal travel, and removing the spring causes the pedal to drop enough as not to allow cruise to engage, or disengages at the least provocation. Folks doing that mod should test their cruise. Owners of '09 cars can always install the '08 spring for better feel. The '08 clutch spring seems like the best compromise. Besides the cruise issue, folks who drive in heavy traffic might not appreciate a heavy clutch over the long run. A matter of personal preference.
Ok then I guess its all in my head and everyone elses thats done it , We don't actually feel the difference its all a hoax just to say we modded something ....
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