BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
OneEighty
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-23-2009, 09:24 PM   #1
CSMRX7
Lieutenant
Canada
7

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Calgary


Posts: 562
iTrader: (0)

Anyone tried Cobalt Pads?

Just curious if anyone has used them. Specifically their CSR pads. I have heard good things about them. Just curious if anyone has experience with an M3?
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2009, 09:33 PM   #2
lucid
Major General
United_States
116

 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA


Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

I have the XR1s on my E30 M3. They work well on that car. The brand has a good reputation for performance/quality, but it is not well known. It would be interesting to see how they do on the E92 M3. I think the CSRs might be too light for track duty on a heavy car. I'd call them and ask.

http://www.cobaltfriction.com/compounds/
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-23-2009, 09:49 PM   #3
CSMRX7
Lieutenant
Canada
7

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Calgary


Posts: 562
iTrader: (0)

I think the XR1s are a better choice if you have the luxury of swaping pads before a track day for sure.

I no longer have a dedicated track car as the days of our local track are numbers so the M will be pulling double duty.
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 11:22 AM   #4
Subw00er
Bates '08 Interlagos Launch
United_States
29

 
Subw00er's Avatar
 
Drives: 08e92M, 03e46M
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NY


Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to Subw00er
Cobalt is a very high end and expensive pad - apparently NASCAR uses them?! I used them on my z06, and they were a bit aggressive for me because they required a lot of heat before gripping, and on the street they were noisy and useless because they would never heat up and grip. It took me a couple miles on track to get them up to temp. If you change pads at the track, they are a good choice, but I never had time to do that.. I am not sure what compound I had, unfortunately, but xr1 does sound familiar.

BTW, I am a huge Carbotech fan, ( http://www.ctbrakes.com/pads/bmw.html ) The xp10 pads are great for HPDE. I've been through about 5 sets of them and they were perfect and you can wear them right down to the plate so you get full life out of them. They are also very easy on rotors and the brake dust is ceramic-based so its much easier to clean off and will not pit/rust.

BTW, just want to add that I always go back to street pads off-track, but normally change to race pads the day before going, so I do end up driving a little on the street with race pads. No proper race pad will work on the street!
__________________
Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740

Last edited by Subw00er; 11-24-2009 at 01:53 PM.
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 11:35 AM   #5
GTM
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
United_States
44


 
GTM's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crystal Lake, IL


Posts: 1,034
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to GTM Send a message via MSN to GTM
We use cobalt pads on our Championship winning Time Attack cars for the past 3 years. Ive had nothing but great results with them on track, but they are not for street cars, not even the GTS pad. We typically get very good wear out of them as well which helps our race budget a bit too. If you have any questions or need any pad spec recomendations feel free to shoot me a PM.
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 11:48 AM   #6
lucid
Major General
United_States
116

 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA


Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTM View Post
We typically get very good wear out of them as well which helps our race budget a bit too.
I noticed that on my E30 M3, but was thinking it had more to do with the car being light weight and low powered (and I haven't gone through too many pads on that car since I recently got it, so I don't have a good basis for comparison in terms of wear). They have held up impressively well. Good to hear that is the case with higher powered cars as well. Someone should try them with the E92.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 11:49 AM   #7
CSMRX7
Lieutenant
Canada
7

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Calgary


Posts: 562
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subw00er View Post
Cobalt is a very high end and expensive pad - apparently NASCAR uses them?! I used them on my z06, and they were a bit aggressive for me because they required a lot of heat before gripping, and on the street they were noisy and useless because they would never heat up and grip. It took me a couple miles on track to get them up to temp. If you change pads at the track, they are a good choice, but I never had time to do that.. I am not sure what compound I had, unfortunately, but xr1 does sound familiar.

BTW, I am a huge Carbotech fan, ( http://www.ctbrakes.com/pads/bmw.html ) The xp10 pads are great for HPDE. I've been through about 5 sets of them and they were perfect and you can wear them right down to the plate so you get full life out of them. They are also very easy on rotors and the brake dust is ceramic-based so its much easier to clean off and will not pit/rust.

I like carbotech as well, and have used them in the past, but want something a bit more street friendly. The car sees about 50/50 street to track time, but sounds like Cobalt may not have anything that fits this either.
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 11:52 AM   #8
lucid
Major General
United_States
116

 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA


Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
I like carbotech as well, and have used them in the past, but want something a bit more street friendly. The car sees about 50/50 street to track time, but sounds like Cobalt may not have anything that fits this either.
FYI: They state in their website that that even the CSR compound is not meant for street use.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 11:54 AM   #9
CSMRX7
Lieutenant
Canada
7

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Calgary


Posts: 562
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
FYI: They state in their website that that even the CSR compound is not meant for street use.


I saw that but the operating temp starts at 50F which seems like a street pad to me.

I may end up with a stoptech BBK with their new pads then. Kingleh seems to think they are up for dual duty, I just wanted to try and keep the stock system for cost, and to fit under my stock 18s.
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 11:58 AM   #10
lucid
Major General
United_States
116

 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA


Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
I saw that but the operating temp starts at 50F which seems like a street pad to me.
I'll disagree with Subw00er on the low temp grip issue. IMO, grip is not a problem. You can still lock the wheels as you drive out of your parking lot without an extreme pedal input. In my experience with using aggressive track pads on the street, their modulation characteristics change with temperature, and that is not all that desirable for the street. There might be exceptions to this where some race pads might not provide much CoF at all in cold temperatures to the extent that becomes problematic, but I haven't ran into that scenario yet.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 03:02 PM   #11
Subw00er
Bates '08 Interlagos Launch
United_States
29

 
Subw00er's Avatar
 
Drives: 08e92M, 03e46M
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NY


Posts: 1,204
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to Subw00er
Ya Lucid, but you cant deny that the braking force is less, who wants to go around using twice the brake pedal for normal stops, and I would bet that a street pad will stop faster than a track pad in a panic stop - on a normally cold pad out on the street. IMO track pads on the street is scary and stupid for continued use.

To the OP, I dont think you'd going ot find a do it all pad. Its physics.
__________________
Custom Exhaust Project: Bates Valvetronic exhaust: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253661 -- Exhaust Mod pics in here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40236795@N03/
DON'T BUY Race Ready Performance electronic cutout valves. Here's why: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...40#post9589740
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 03:35 PM   #12
GTM
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
United_States
44


 
GTM's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crystal Lake, IL


Posts: 1,034
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to GTM Send a message via MSN to GTM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I noticed that on my E30 M3, but was thinking it had more to do with the car being light weight and low powered (and I haven't gone through too many pads on that car since I recently got it, so I don't have a good basis for comparison in terms of wear). They have held up impressively well. Good to hear that is the case with higher powered cars as well. Someone should try them with the E92.
Our time attack car is an S2000, so not far off from your E30 M3 really in concept. ligher weight, high strung 4 cyl. Ours makes about 240 whp NA currently. I know some of our other customers weve sold the cobalts to with heavier WRX's etc have also had good results.
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 03:38 PM   #13
GTM
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
United_States
44


 
GTM's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Crystal Lake, IL


Posts: 1,034
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to GTM Send a message via MSN to GTM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSMRX7 View Post
I saw that but the operating temp starts at 50F which seems like a street pad to me.

I may end up with a stoptech BBK with their new pads then. Kingleh seems to think they are up for dual duty, I just wanted to try and keep the stock system for cost, and to fit under my stock 18s.
Cobalt is pretty forward about not recomending their current componds for the street. When used below their main opperating temps, they are more abrasive on the rotors, as well as pad wear. So, even if you DO use them for the street, you will pay some penalty. even if on the small side, in rotor/pad wear.

about 3 years ago or so, they had a GTS compound that was still ok on the street, but has been since changed in its makeup, and street driving them is not recomended.
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 05:10 PM   #14
CSMRX7
Lieutenant
Canada
7

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Calgary


Posts: 562
iTrader: (0)

I completely understand that their has to be compromise. I won't be able to get an all out track pad that is great for street driving but I am willing to compromise the end of both spectrums to be able to take the M3 to the track.

The challenge is that with the amount of days I do at the track I would be changing pads twice a week in the summer if I have track only pads!
Appreciate 0
      11-24-2009, 05:22 PM   #15
lucid
Major General
United_States
116

 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA


Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subw00er View Post
Ya Lucid, but you cant deny that the braking force is less, who wants to go around using twice the brake pedal for normal stops, and I would bet that a street pad will stop faster than a track pad in a panic stop - on a normally cold pad out on the street. IMO track pads on the street is scary and stupid for continued use.

To the OP, I dont think you'd going ot find a do it all pad. Its physics.
I beg to differ on this.

I drove around with XP12 and RS19 in this car last year for some time. Never felt like I had to exert twice the pressure on the pedal. As long as you have the ability to get ABS involved, there is no reason to think street pads will make it stop faster as that proves tire traction is the limiting factor. There is plenty of friction with common track pads even at low temperatures. Again, there might be exceptions to this though.

Check out the CoF vs T graphs for the Pagid pads at rennstore:

http://rennstore.com/

Their more aggressive compounds have higher CoF across the board (I think 4-2-1 is the street pad). OK, the data start at 100C, but I don't see things dropping off the face of the earth from where they are because of another 60C.

I can say that track pads are hard to modulate when cold though, and I wouldn't want to drive around with them for that reason. Actually, RS19 is surprisingly usable. XP12 was pretty binary.
__________________
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:13 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST