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      11-15-2009, 08:39 PM   #1
bmwrjs
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BMW M3 vs Porsche Carrera which is Quicker

WHich one is quicker to 60 and through the quarter
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      11-15-2009, 08:40 PM   #2
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go race one in your m3 bro
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      11-15-2009, 09:06 PM   #3
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The current 997 Carrera is faster, especially w/PDK.

Here's the S, which still has a large HP deficit to the M3, AND this M3 is tuned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33BHlQHlkFE
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      11-15-2009, 09:45 PM   #4
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Thanks guys, can't race one yet i've only got 1120 miles on it
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      11-15-2009, 10:15 PM   #5
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^^ Does it even make sense that 80 more miles will have any positive/negative effect on your engine?
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      11-15-2009, 10:16 PM   #6
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Porsche quotes: 911 Carrera S PDK 4.3s 0-60, ~3220 lbs weight
BMW quote: M3 DCT 4.5s 0-60, ~3750 lbs weight

The cars are close enough so that a difference is drivers is much more important. A single driver, equally comfortable with both cars, should be faster with a 911. M5board videos don't really mean much for cars that are this close as there are always different drivers involved.

My personal experience on track has been in favor of the M3 (bone stock). Here is a sample. Various 911s moving over at 0:35, 2:28, 5:56 (turbo). This is not because the M3 is the faster car, but because the drivers have different levels of experience. BTW I am not even going nearly as fast as the car can go (low 1:50s).

Also, 4 doors and 5 seats are nice to have.
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      11-15-2009, 10:52 PM   #7
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In this video they got PDK C2S down to 11.77s while C2 was 12.1s
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      11-15-2009, 11:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Porsche's quoted numbers are super conservative. In a straight line, the 997S with PDK obliterates/rapes/embarasses/ the m3. Its not close, at all. Better aerodynamics and a stronger top end are part of the reason.
You do realize the 997S with PDK ran 7:50 on the ring right? thats 15 seconds faster than the m3, and a very significant amount of time as well.
Yes, tracking a car is just as much about skill level as it is the car. Equal drivers, the 997S will embarass an m3 in the same way it does on straights. And its brakes wont be fried after two laps either.
+1 the cars are not in the same league. For the 'ring times as you mentioned, there's about the same gap between the Porsche and the M3 as there is between the current M3 and the previous generation M3. Go look at what cars are 15seconds or so behind the M3 on the 'ring and see how different things are. What's also amusing is the Porsche isn't made for drag racing either, and the M3 folks can't say "but... but... wait 'till the twisties!" because there's no contest there either.

M3 is a great sporty sedan. Great performance with practicality and value. I'll probably get the current generation M3 next. But it's no 911.
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      11-16-2009, 12:50 AM   #9
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Porsche is probably faster, but maybe it has a bad driver, who knows.
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      11-16-2009, 05:53 AM   #10
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The 997C2S Mk2 is not only quicker but it's comfortably quicker, PDK only improves on an already widening gap that the manual will be producing over the M3.
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      11-16-2009, 09:59 AM   #11
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i agree, they are in a different league but in addition to my M3 i have an 08 997S and on straits the M3 pulls on it but on the top end the s wins
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      11-16-2009, 10:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
We are talking about the 997.2S (2009 with 385 hp). Its not close between the e92 m3 dct and a 997.2S with PDK, even if the m3 is modded. Like yemen said above, different leagues.
Im wondering whe Porsche is going to announce the 405 hp 997S with x51 power kit. That car is going to be a even more of a monster with PDK.
Yes and 2011 the 991 model, and frequent rumors are that they're focusing hard on weight savings.

So, even less weight, PDK, etc.
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      11-16-2009, 12:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwrjs View Post
WHich one is quicker to 60 and through the quarter
Although a single test is not definitive (especially when the cars are so closely matched), the Car & Driver comparison test earlier this year showed the automatic-equipped base 911 and M3 to be near equals in acceleration, with identical 4.1 times to 60 and 9.9 to 100 mph. The Porsche starts pulling away at that point, arriving at 150 mph in 25.2 seconds vs 25.9 for the Bimmer. I assume that's because the Porsche pushes less air at speed, since the M3 does better on power to weight.

In the quarter mile, they both finish at 113 mph, with the Porsche ahead by around a car length at a 12.5 second ET vs 12.6 seconds for the M3.

I am assuming that the Porsche gets most or even all of it's lead in the first 100 feet or so of the race, by dint of having around 13% more poundage over the drive wheels at the start.

Forget the identical 0-60 and 0-100 mph numbers, since time to speed and time to distance are essentially unrelated. The Porsche gets the jump, and the bimmer holds on from there through a quarter mile.

This particular 911 didn't have the Sport Chrono package, so figure it would be a little quicker if it did.

Out on the road, the cars ought to be closer together than half past six, but I'd bet a nickel that the M3 would have a minor advantange at highway speeds. I admit I could lose that nickel, but I am resolute.

997S2? Whoa! There he goes, from any speed to any other speed.

Bruce
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      11-16-2009, 12:30 PM   #14
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A lot of twaddle about the 997 S2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Although a single test is not definitive (especially when the cars are so closely matched), the Car & Driver comparison test earlier this year showed the automatic-equipped 911 and M3 to be near equals in acceleration, with identical 4.1 times to 60 and 9.9 to 100 mph. The Porsche starts pulling away at that point, arriving at 150 mph in 25.2 seconds vs 25.9 for the Bimmer. I assume that's because the Porsche pushes less air at speed, since the M3 does better on power to weight.

In the quarter mile, they both finish at 113 mph, with the Porsche ahead by around a car length at a 12.5 second ET vs 12.6 seconds for the M3.

I am assuming that the Porsche gets most or even all of it's lead in the first 100 feet or so of the race, by dint of having around 13% more poundage over the drive wheels at the start.

Forget the identical 0-60 and 0-100 mph numbers, since time to speed and time to distance are essentially unrelated. The Porsche gets the jump, and the bimmer holds on from there through a quarter mile.

This particular 911 didn't have the Sport Chrono package, so figure it would be a little quicker if it did.

Out on the road, the cars ought to be closer together than half past six, but I'd bet a nickel that the M3 would have a minor advantange at highway speeds. I admit I could lose that nickel, but I am resolute.

997S2? Whoa! There he goes, from any speed to any other speed.

Bruce
The past three M3s at least were benchmarked against the garden variety 911. Of course the C&D test is weird because the Porsche had neither an LSD nor the Sport Chrono package. None of this really matters if you want or need a coupe (sedan, convertible) that can hold four adults.

Last edited by BimmerBoomer; 11-16-2009 at 03:22 PM.
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      11-16-2009, 02:57 PM   #15
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Against the standard 911, it's even.

Against a Carrera S, it's over.

But it should be, how much more is the 911 in price...cough cough...Nissan GTR...cough.
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      11-16-2009, 04:58 PM   #16
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Porsche rates the horsepower at the wheels while BMW does it at the Crank

So thats the main reason why the m3 loses, because the Porsche is making the same or more whp than the m3 at hundreds of pounds lighter
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      11-16-2009, 05:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Huh? Its not that they rate at the wheels, but its the fact that their cars put the power to the ground better. The 997.1 GT3 was rated at 415 crank hp, ive seen dynos of stock 997.1 GT3s putting down 380 hp and 280 lb/ft of tq. With a 15% drivetrain loss, that comes out to 437 hp and 322 lb/ft.
All cars are rated with hp the same. There is consistency because all the rating are done by SAE (society of automotive engineering).
I do agree with you that the m3 loses because it puts down less with much more weight. Stock m3 dyno ~330-340, and IIRC the 997.2S dyno ~340 rwhp. The m3s just dont put the power to the ground as much...the same was true for the e46 m3s. 333 hp and most people avg'd about 275 on the dyno. Thats near 20% drivetrain loss.
Yes, a rear engine/RWD setup generally has less drivetrain loss than a front engine/RWD design.

The 997.2 C2 would be a driver's race against the M3 (although I handed one its a$$ this weekend from about 50 up to 120 on the highway). The 997.2 C2S, especially with the PDK, would have no problems taking out an M3 with only bolt-ons.
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      11-16-2009, 06:11 PM   #18
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When I had a 997.2 C2S with PDK for a day, subjectively it didn't any faster than my M3 in a straight line
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      11-16-2009, 06:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
When I had a 997.2 C2S with PDK for a day, subjectively it didn't any faster than my M3 in a straight line
It doesn't matter how it feels. Heck, Honda S2000 feels faster then M3.
997.2 C2S murders M3 in every performance category
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      11-16-2009, 07:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
I agree with you. Base 911=drivers race; 997S=not even close.

Why is it so hard for people to concede that they dont have the fastest, best handling car?
The older members here realize that this year's fastest car is next year's lunch meat, and that the most fun cars aren't necessarily the fastest. I think this forum has a lot of "passionate" younger members who are justifying their purchase to themselves as much as to anyone else.
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      11-16-2009, 07:27 PM   #21
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my 997.2s cab top down was a fast as my m3 dct straightline
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      11-16-2009, 07:38 PM   #22
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I can't remember...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLud View Post
The older members here realize that this year's fastest car is next year's lunch meat, and that the most fun cars aren't necessarily the fastest. I think this forum has a lot of "passionate" younger members who are justifying their purchase to themselves as much as to anyone else.
when any of my M3s (E36, E46, E92) was competitive with a current Carrera S. I can remember when M3s were more fun.
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