BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Steve Thomas BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-30-2009, 05:40 PM   #177
Jaypod
Brigadier General
 
Jaypod's Avatar
 
Drives: Frozen Silver M3, AM V8V
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 4,931
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by foosh View Post

It deserves to be called a world-class sedan, because it is, but it does suffer from the GM stigma (unfairly). GM is building a number of world-class vehicles now.
Completely agree.

I dont think the previous gen CTSV was all that popular here. Honestly really dont see many. An 06 CTSV for example only fetches a few thousand more than its CTS counterpart with similar mileage etc. on the used lot. Very similar to the Jag S Type and S Type R. If you can find a used one, you typically dont pay that much more.
Jaypod is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 06:36 PM   #178
dhoggm3
Captain
 
dhoggm3's Avatar
 
Drives: F80 E93 E36 M3, F430, 981 BS
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: York, PA

Posts: 876
iTrader: (1)

The chicane was no doubt added to deep speeds down at the request of the lawyers (or Monticello instructors). The GM PR dept would have had a hard time explaining the rank amateur ex-customer in the balled up CTS-V at the end of the long straight.
__________________

Never leave a car completely stock!
dhoggm3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 06:43 PM   #179
lopealle
Resident Black Guy
 
lopealle's Avatar
 
Drives: Lion
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Federal Way, WA

Posts: 2,245
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2006 M5  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhoggm3 View Post
The chicane was no doubt added to deep speeds down at the request of the lawyers (or Monticello instructors). The GM PR dept would have had a hard time explaining the rank amateur ex-customer in the balled up CTS-V at the end of the long straight.
exaactly
lopealle is offline   Zimbabwe
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 06:44 PM   #180
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,696
iTrader: (0)

Here is video of some the goings on of the day.

[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2w0orC_kes0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en& feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2w0orC_kes0&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en& feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 06:57 PM   #181
FifthStreetz
O! So Sour!!
 
FifthStreetz's Avatar
 
Drives: Fast e30 / Slow M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Fort Lee, NJ

Posts: 15,525
iTrader: (24)

Garage List
2008 M3  [4.75]
go mike!!!
__________________
FifthStreetz is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 07:07 PM   #182
Gearhead999s
Major General
 
Gearhead999s's Avatar
 
Drives: E93 335is(wifes)E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto

Posts: 6,696
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhoggm3 View Post
The GM PR dept would have had a hard time explaining the rank amateur ex-customer in the balled up CTS-V at the end of the long straight.
Good way to cull the herd
Gearhead999s is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 07:11 PM   #183
Heat00
Major
 
Heat00's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Weston, Florida

Posts: 1,027
iTrader: (0)

m3 FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
08 - M3 Sparkling Graphite/blk leather/tech/6 speed
08 - 335i Sport/Prem/Auto White/Terra - AA Exhaust
07 Acura MDX Tech, 07 G35S /Nav

Heat00 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 07:19 PM   #184
Hans Delbruck
BMW &amp; MB - friends in my garage
 
Hans Delbruck's Avatar
 
Drives: C63, 135i, 1959 BUICK
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Posts: 1,285
iTrader: (0)

Sounds like GM put on a great event and found the right drivers with the right attitude!

Mike, congrats - your skills made up for the M3's weaknesses vs a faster car with better brakes. In your opinion, is the CTS-V just as well balanced as the M3? I'm thinking the answer is yes... although perhaps the power makes it more intimidating to drive? But with seat time... well

Chris, congrats on your first track day in your CTS-V, great post. There are car enthusiasts with every brand. BMW, GM, Audi, MB.... and as you experienced we can get along.... just ignore the punks on the net, they don't necessarily speak for the marque. The track is a great place to meet other "car people." I hope you get a chance to go again. Thanks for posting here.
__________________
2009 135i 6MT Euro Delivery 9/5/09
BMW Performance Power Kit - Exhaust - Short Shifter
Hans Delbruck is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 08:01 PM   #185
m3_love
Lieutenant Colonel
 
m3_love's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Texas..YEE HAW~

Posts: 1,736
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
Sounds like GM put on a great event and found the right drivers with the right attitude!

Mike, congrats - your skills made up for the M3's weaknesses vs a faster car with better brakes. In your opinion, is the CTS-V just as well balanced as the M3? I'm thinking the answer is yes... although perhaps the power makes it more intimidating to drive? But with seat time... well

Chris, congrats on your first track day in your CTS-V, great post. There are car enthusiasts with every brand. BMW, GM, Audi, MB.... and as you experienced we can get along.... just ignore the punks on the net, they don't necessarily speak for the marque. The track is a great place to meet other "car people." I hope you get a chance to go again. Thanks for posting here.
+100

Thanks for sharing and congrats
__________________
gone baby gone...
m3_love is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 08:20 PM   #186
grizzy727
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 08 m5, 04 911
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NNJ

Posts: 42
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via AIM to grizzy727
great video--can you post any clips or sound of the m5 around the track?
grizzy727 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 08:26 PM   #187
the///Mthree
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: Frozen Black Edition
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York

Posts: 351
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
Sounds like GM put on a great event and found the right drivers with the right attitude!

Mike, congrats - your skills made up for the M3's weaknesses vs a faster car with better brakes. In your opinion, is the CTS-V just as well balanced as the M3? I'm thinking the answer is yes... although perhaps the power makes it more intimidating to drive? But with seat time... well

Coming from a c6z06, the power did not intimidate me at all. I just wasnt expecting it to be as quick as it was. I would say the cars are very pretty in balance, I think the m3 has a better balance coming into the corner and through a long corner, but the ctsv has a better balance off the corner.
the///Mthree is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 09:26 PM   #188
330CIZHP
Major
 
Drives: BMW 330 CI ZHP
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary, Alberta

Posts: 1,211
iTrader: (0)

So asking the question more directly, do you feel that if you had given your M3 to GM professional tester and former race car driver John Heinrichy, he would have turned in a substantially quicker lap than your's very close to the CTS-V??

Quote:
Originally Posted by the///Mthree View Post
Coming from a c6z06, the power did not intimidate me at all. I just wasnt expecting it to be as quick as it was. I would say the cars are very pretty in balance, I think the m3 has a better balance coming into the corner and through a long corner, but the ctsv has a better balance off the corner.
__________________
""A great sounding, responsive, high-revving, naturally aspirated engine is part of the DNA of a thoroughbred sports car. No two ways about it."

- Lamborghini on turbocharging
330CIZHP is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 09:42 PM   #189
King Tut
Individual LSB - Rust Brown
 
King Tut's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 BMW M3 Coupe Individual
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Gulf Breeze, FL

Posts: 1,306
iTrader: (2)

Send a message via AIM to King Tut
Okay I have read this entire thread. To me there are some points that should be made:

1. The challenge was to bring a production sedan and beat Bub Lutz in a CTS-V.
2. Michael Cooper in his E90 M3 was the only person to beat Bub Lutz and therefore WON the challenge.
3. The CTS-V is DEFINITELY a faster car than the M3.

I'm proud to be an M3 owner and proud of Michael Cooper.
__________________
King Tut
2012 BMW M3 Individual: lsb.ridedomain.com
1987 BMW 325is SpecE30: spece30.ridedomain.com
2009 BMW M3 Coupe: Sold e92.ridedomain.com
King Tut is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 10:51 PM   #190
foosh
Major
 
foosh's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3 E93
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Annapolis, MD

Posts: 1,314
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 330CIZHP View Post
So asking the question more directly, do you feel that if you had given your M3 to GM professional tester and former race car driver John Heinrichy, he would have turned in a substantially quicker lap than your's very close to the CTS-V??
He's answered that question in some sense. See post #158.

No doubt that BMW's equivalent of Johnny O'Connell (the "mystery driver" who bested Henricy's time by 1 second with a 2:45) would be a bit closer. 5 seconds in 1 lap is an eternity on a short course like that one.

I think some people are forgetting that the V's straight-line performance advantage was compromised by the chicane placed on the long straight by track management, which I'm sure GM didn't like, but was forced to accept.

At any rate, this has been a very entertaining thread, which sure as hell beats reading about the latest bling wheels from Miami. If Michael were given the chance, he might well be good enough to challenge people like O'Connell some day. I very much enjoyed seeing the video with O'Connell complimenting him on "hitting his marks." He clearly has some serious talent. Good job Michael, and it's great that you joined the conversation.
__________________

Last edited by foosh; 10-31-2009 at 12:51 AM.
foosh is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 11:10 PM   #191
ideliver
Major
 
ideliver's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E60 M5 & 08 Infiniti QX56
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: At the gas station

Posts: 1,232
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 MB S430 SOLD  [0.00]
2003 E46 M3  [0.00]
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...ml#post1674276

from the M5 driver
__________________
Cars I've owned '76 Chevelle 350 RIP '82 Monte Carlo 350 RIP '82 Mustang 302 RIP '88 Honda CRX RIP '88 Olds Toronado sold '94 Toyota Tercel sold '99 Acura TL sold 2002 Porsche 911 sold 2003 E46 M3 Blk/gr 2006 MB S430 sold Current: 2008 Infiniti QX56 & 2008 E60 M5

ideliver is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2009, 11:23 PM   #192
domobrown
Banned
 
Drives: Audi RS5 S-Tronic
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Salzburg, Austria

Posts: 512
iTrader: (0)

Who was the douche in the Evo X? He thought he could get close to a CTS-V? He was amongst the slowest.
domobrown is offline   Austria
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2009, 12:35 AM   #193
cjfairman
New Member
 
Drives: ctsv
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Posts: 8
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
Sounds like GM put on a great event and found the right drivers with the right attitude!

Mike, congrats - your skills made up for the M3's weaknesses vs a faster car with better brakes. In your opinion, is the CTS-V just as well balanced as the M3? I'm thinking the answer is yes... although perhaps the power makes it more intimidating to drive? But with seat time... well

Chris, congrats on your first track day in your CTS-V, great post. There are car enthusiasts with every brand. BMW, GM, Audi, MB.... and as you experienced we can get along.... just ignore the punks on the net, they don't necessarily speak for the marque. The track is a great place to meet other "car people." I hope you get a chance to go again. Thanks for posting here.


Thanks I just wanted to make sure you guys knew I was a fan of Mike. Actually everyone there was cool. It was just a ton of fun. The M5 guy has a great website. He sounds like an average suburban dad like me who just loves cars, but he's taken his hobby much further to actually reviewing cars. Sounds like he's driven tons of cool stuff.

Mainly, I just wanted to sign my name to the posts. I can't stand people posting on these sites annonymously and making ridiculous claims and putting people down. If you can't sign your name to it, you are a coward.

My buddy Dave and I drove 9 1/2 hours from Michigan to be there. We had this talk all the way home. We predicted exactly what the blogs would read. If you are a BMW fan, you say the challenge was Lutz and his CTSV against the world. If you are a Caddy fan, you say the challenge was the car against any car,(4 door stock) and any driver. If you were there, you would have heard Lutz conceed defeat before the competition even began. He knew there were at least 5 or 6 "whipper snappers" in the room who would best him. But he also knew they could not beat the car when put in capable hands.

Before making another post claiming BMW victory, read the www.ctsvchallenge.com website. Never, ever, ever, does it claim that Lutz is the only CTS V driver. In fact it clearly states professional drivers will be on hand. All the talk is about John H being at the top, but fact is Aaron Link is also an amateur and he's near the top as well. Aaron is an engineer and does have lots of track time. Call him a ringer, maybe, but he's not a pro. Basically, I'm asking that you don't disqualify everyone above your guy until he's at number 1 and claim victory. I will sum up the leagal mumbo jumbo, unless you care to read the ten pages. It says, you don't have a chance, we set up the challenge and we can choose our competition and we can choose our drivers. By clicking the button below, and submitting your entry, you accept these terms. Mike accepted the terms, (actually he told me his brother signed him up). So don't accept the terms and later cry unfair. I'm not saying Mike is crying. In fact, at 21, he's been far more mature than a fair amount of posters here. I'm saying the posts claiming put this or that driver here or there or on this or that track and we win is just silly. You can talk "what if" all day long, but it's a waste of energy.

Mike had a great day and I think everyone gave him his due and he deserves every minute of his 15 minutes of fame. Lutz wanted to accomplish one thing, and he said it in several interviews. To his credit, he did not want to run the race in a straight line because people already know americans can build a car to go straight. He wanted to prove Cadillac could make a car that could run with the euros who have been doing it for a hundred years or more. I think Bob did it and in the process got tons of free publicity. Mike also got some serious recognition and that is way cool. Cadillac hasn't ignored Mike, they gave him credit left and right. And Mike also gave Caddy credit, praising the V in some of his posts above. We can argue symantics all day long. Was the challenge Lutz vs. Mike? or Car vs. Car? But you cannot argue that everyone had a great time and there were some very cool cars going round the track that day.

It seems like much more fun to talk about the stuff on the M5 forum like how cool the different cars sounded coming down the straight in front of the clubhouse. The caddys had a thunderous deep growl, while the bmers had a higher pitched throaty whine. The audi was a tighter tuned sound and the Jag was just like a quiet storm of smooth effortless power.

Chris
cjfairman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2009, 03:16 AM   #194
Blake
Banned
 
Drives: Chevy Aveo
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Parent's Basement

Posts: 4,651
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
GO LAKERS 2009-2010!!!!

Viva Michael Cooper!

Attachment 320640
wat
Blake is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2009, 06:49 AM   #195
bobbyd1961
Banned
 
Drives: 2009 M3 sedan LeMans Blue
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: new jersey

Posts: 2,411
iTrader: (0)

michael cooper for president!!! yeah! great job defeating all at their own track.
bobbyd1961 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2009, 08:02 AM   #196
OBI_agent
D to the X to the B!
 
OBI_agent's Avatar
 
Drives: ABS,American bargain supercar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dubai

Posts: 2,094
iTrader: (0)

Michael Cooper, I salute you .

I'm 23 and I still drive an Accord
__________________
11 corvette C6
OBI_agent is offline   United Arab Emirates
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2009, 08:25 AM   #197
mkoesel
Moderator
 
Drives: 2015 Felt IA2
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

Posts: 13,611
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjfairman View Post
Hi guys,
I'm the guy who posted on the caddy forum. Please read my post carefully.
First off - GO BLUE!

Second, props to you for hiking it all the way to Monticello for this challenge. Definitely a chance of a lifetime to be involved with something like this.

As far as your comment about everyone just getting along - I really think that pretty much people are. Actually, I am sort of proud of the enthusiast community at large for keeping things clean. Sure, there are a few fanboy-ish and hater comments in this thread, and probably some more in the other forums and blogs across the internet. But for the most part people are giving props where props are due - both to the drivers and their machinery.

As for the CTS-V vs. the M3, well its no secret which is the faster car. But, you have to admit with less than four seconds between Michael and Heinricy, there wouldn't be much room for Heinricy to improve on Michael's time in an M3 without encroaching on his own CTS-V time. I think this has significance, and its worth talking about. You have to give the M3 some props for that, with its 10% disadvantage in power-to-weight. Sure there was the chicane. Sure four, three, two or even one second is still a lot of time on ~3 minute course. But the results are still a testament to the M3's abilities. And I think it's pretty fair to say that while GM obviously knew exactly what they were doing here, no one, not even Lutz, expected to see a 21 year old with an M3 come in and put up such a challenge like he did. I should add here that, as a corollary to that, if Michael had gotten an actual timed lap in CTS-V, there's little room for him to improve over his own time in his car without encroaching on Heinricy's as well. Huge props are due there as well.

But definitely, at the same time, no one can deny that the CTS-V is a hell of a car also. No question. In fact, I am drooling over the upcoming CTS-V wagon myself because I would love to have one in the garage next to the M3. I am working on convincing the wife. But even if not the V, we may well end up with the standard CTS wagon. It's in the running for sure.

There's bound to be some difference in opinions about how legitimate the whole thing was and who the real winners were. It's ok. Not everyone has to agree on everything, and its clear where everyone's biases are going to be. That said I think everyone involved - including all of us enthusiasts - have gotten more positive's than negatives out of this. It was a great event, and I hope that more events like this will follow.

Cheers
__________________
-
mkoesel is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-31-2009, 08:29 AM   #198
paddyrx8
Private First Class
 
paddyrx8's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 320 MSport, Estoril
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK

Posts: 151
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 320d M sport  [0.00]
2003 E46 M3  [0.00]
2004 M3  [0.00]
2006 E90 320D MSPORT  [0.00]
2005 E90 320i  [0.00]
Cad V logo

The Cadi V logo is such a rip off of the BM M logo.
__________________
paddyrx8 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:29 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST