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      10-30-2009, 01:07 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by FlyFish View Post
You did your research--that is clear. I also appreciate your modesty, show's class. But the bottom line is--your skill and technique combined with a very capable, well balanced car gave that CTS-V and it's professional driver all it could handle. That is impressive and you should pat yourself on the back! Welcome to your 15 minutes--sit back, relax, and enjoy it!
+1! Awesome job, and way to represent the M3!
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      10-30-2009, 01:18 AM   #68
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+2

Great work! You represented our community well!

Nice knowing you put Lutz in his place. Thats what he gets for challenging the world.

(I do have tons of respect for Lutz, he has done great things for GM!)
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      10-30-2009, 01:32 AM   #69
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As the title says, I'm looking for more info on a chap named Michael Cooper.
GO LAKERS 2009-2010!!!!

Viva Michael Cooper!

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      10-30-2009, 03:03 AM   #70
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Great press for GM.

People that don't know cars will see the time sheet and just see that a Cadillac beat two BMW's. That is all GM wanted.

Honestly, regular people won't know who any of these drivers are.

Last edited by M3_WC; 10-30-2009 at 03:49 AM.
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      10-30-2009, 04:45 AM   #71
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They should have called up Bill Auberlen he would have owned them all I bet.
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      10-30-2009, 07:04 AM   #72
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Yeah, and he was carrying 600-700 extra lbs.
Leave the poor man's personal weight out of this argument.
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      10-30-2009, 07:13 AM   #73
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What this proves more than anything is that there is no substitute for someone handy behind the wheel and all this arguing about which car was quicker means jack shit in the real world.

I bet 95% of drivers would be slower in an M3, CTS-V, M5, RS4, etc than a professional in something with 2/3rd the PTW.
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      10-30-2009, 07:14 AM   #74
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Good job! Michael Cooper
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      10-30-2009, 07:14 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the///Mthree View Post
I can say one thing for sure I got to drive the CTSV and the M3 is NOT the faster car on the track. I am hoping to get some timed laps in the CTSV on monticello in the near future.
Glad to hear you had a fun day and finished as the top competitor. I am sure you have some memories that will last a long time!
Glad to see you had some seat time in the CTSV - great car, very fast and feels even faster (similar to how the M5 feels much faster than the M3). Would be curious to see your opinion after some timed laps in the CTSV - My experience in the M3 is that if feels much slower than it is.
All in all it was mission accomplished for GM - tons of media hype and the time sheet they are showing, show's you fourth. Most people wont get that you techinically finished first, but that's fine. There are a lot of people who would have never even considered buying a CTSV and taking it to a track (just like most wouldnt compare and M3 to a CTSV). Maybe a few people with think differently now! All in all this is the type of hype GM needs right now.
Thanks for sharing your experience - hope to hear more and glad to hear you had a great day!
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      10-30-2009, 07:22 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
GO LAKERS 2009-2010!!!!

Viva Michael Cooper!
Cute!!!




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Originally Posted by Jonmartin View Post
They should have called up Bill Auberlen he would have owned them all I bet.
You mean the same Bill Auberlen who was pwn3d by Heinricy exactly one year ago at the same track while driving a SMG equipped M5 while Henricy drove the CTS-V?


Let's all be serious here... This challenge was open to "ANYONE" with a stock production sedan in the competing class of a CTS-V. No pro drivers showed up with a car so that's life. It would have been nice to see a "Paul Gerard" or a "Will Turner" pilot a M3, M5, or RS4 on this course. But it didn't happen.
The good that came out of all this is that a GM icon wrote a check that he could not cash. He has racing experience, so does Michael C. AFAIK, neither are pros in a regular racing series. Neither are manufacturer test drivers. And Michael drove his very own E90 M3 to what seems to be a CTS-V stomping ground and stomped Bob by nearly 6 secs. All this with only 2 laps at his disposal before the brakes gave up the ghost.
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      10-30-2009, 08:29 AM   #77
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Yeah, and he was carrying 600-700 extra lbs.
Yep. So his power-to-weight ratio was 1hp:7.6lb. While Michael's was 1hp:8.4lb. So he had about a 10% advantage there.

That would definitely help on these long straights.



And let's be real here - a three minute time trial is not exactly going to favor age. Sure, if this were an endurance race, that's a clear disadvantage for Lutz. But it wasn't. Experience and capable machinery should be the biggest factors here, and on paper Lutz had the advantage in both areas. Obviously this Michael guy is for real and probably more info about him will be coming out over the next couple days.

Another thing about the final results of the challenge that struck me is that both the press guys ended up in a CTS-V. I guess that's all they had available perhaps, but I find it a bit fishy that the one press guy who was going to drive an XF-R ended up dropping out prior to the challenge. Were they going to force him to drive a CTS-V? I haven't dug around the internet to find out yet, but I am very curious on the details of these finer points.
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      10-30-2009, 08:33 AM   #78
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I am sure there will be similar results in the "forum wars" track competition.

Yeah, and you know what - speaking of that one, I think the timing here could not be better. Because I sincerely hope those folks running that gig are able to muster up some takers with a Panamera Turbo and E63 to go with the CTS-V and M5 (and an XF-R too) so we can have a true super-sedan challenge.
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      10-30-2009, 08:41 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Another thing about the final results of the challenge that struck me is that both the press guys ended up in a CTS-V. I guess that's all they had available perhaps, but I find it a bit fishy that the one press guy who was going to drive an XF-R ended up dropping out prior to the challenge. Were they going to force him to drive a CTS-V? I haven't dug around the internet to find out yet, but I am very curious on the details of these finer points.
Like I said in earlier posts- this event was put on by GM to have GM come out on top. You could not be an employee or endorser of the brand of car you were driving (except GM), you had to be titled owner of the car, the car must never been competed in a race event or modified in anyway. Also, the media could not cover it except for brief comments about the CTS-V all communication must be done through GM (No Thanks as I have an opinion and if I am participating in something I better be able to express it).

Lots of propaganda (successful), just goes to show how great the CTS-V is and how GM went bankrupt to build it. The development costs can never be recouped at the sale price of the vehicle so it was artificially subsidized by other (sub compact) model price inflations- something BMW refuses to do.

The CTS-V is a great product in terms of performance, there is no mistaking that and even pro-driver vs. pro-driver on the same track the CTS-V comes out on top as was evidence by last years race of ///M5 vs. CTS-V. No offense to Bill but he is not the one who should have driven the ///M5 last year as he has limited experience in it and it might have been closer with someone else behind the wheel.

Personally I was more impressed with how the ///M3 did when you compare the actually hp/weight ratio. Give the thing a 200 lbs. diet and the times would be closer.

-M
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      10-30-2009, 08:47 AM   #80
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If the age difference is 50-60 vs. 20-30, I'd say you may be right, in the case of very fit 50-somethings. If the age difference is 80 vs. 20-30, I'd say you're pushing it to say age is no factor, even on a 60-second lap, or let's say a solo course. BTW, Heinricy ain't no "spring chicken" either (60).

I don't care how "fit" the 80 year-old is, and, of course, there are individual differences. Unfortunately for all of us, those physiological processes associated with aging, which cause coordination and reaction-time loss, are essentially immutable. Of course, the deterioration you experience with age, is over the baseline you began with, and that caveat must be inserted.

There's an awful lot of scientific research in this area, and it's related to what I do for a living.
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      10-30-2009, 08:50 AM   #81
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Put Cooper in the CTS-V and he would have been slower, not faster, just like Heinricy would have been faster around that track in the M3 I am sure. That's the point.
Great theory - but you are completely speculating and no one knows for sure what would have happened. It's too bad they didn't swap cars and see. But of course that would never happen given that this was a GM run event and Heinricy is GM's driver.
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      10-30-2009, 08:56 AM   #82
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Like I said in earlier posts- this event was put on by GM to have GM come out on top. You could not be an employee or endorser of the brand of car you were driving (except GM), you had to be titled owner of the car...
Yeah, it was always clear that GM stacked this in their favor but on that last point, certainly the press guys didn't go out and buy a CTS-V, right? I am sure GM was happy to provide them a car as long as - of course - they were willing to drive a CTS-V. That's probably a big reason the Jalopnik guy dropped out - because he wouldn't drive the V, and plus the hush-hush factor that you mention.
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      10-30-2009, 09:21 AM   #83
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I would like a CTS-V to park next to my M3.
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      10-30-2009, 09:24 AM   #84
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I would like a CTS-V to park next to my M3.

I have been to a few track days and a guy is running one with a supercharger and meth kit - very quick and sounds amazing on the straight away under hard acceleration!

Great Car - maybe when I am 60+ and GM gets their sh*t together I will want one too.
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      10-30-2009, 09:28 AM   #85
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I have been to a few track days and a guy is running one with a supercharger and meth kit - very quick and sounds amazing on the straight away under hard acceleration!

Great Car - maybe when I am 60+ and GM gets their sh*t together I will want one too.
I usually lap him at least once in a 15 minute session also
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      10-30-2009, 09:33 AM   #86
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Yeah, it was always clear that GM stacked this in their favor but on that last point, certainly the press guys didn't go out and buy a CTS-V, right? I am sure GM was happy to provide them a car as long as - of course - they were willing to drive a CTS-V. That's probably a big reason the Jalopnik guy dropped out - because he wouldn't drive the V, and plus the hush-hush factor that you mention.
The Jalopnik guy was there in an EVO and well off the pace.It was GM's day and they played the game in a way that suited them favourably.If I was Bob Lutz,I would have done the same.
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      10-30-2009, 09:38 AM   #87
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If the age difference is 50-60 vs. 20-30, I'd say you may be right, in the case of very fit 50-somethings. If the age difference is 80 vs. 20-30, I'd say you're pushing it to say age is no factor, even on a 60-second lap, or let's say a solo course. BTW, Heinricy ain't no "spring chicken" either (60).
You're right - age wasn't a complete non-factor. But certainly experience is experience and an accomplished driver is an accomplished driver. The two younger journos did beat Lutz, yes, but presumably they have a good deal of track experience under their belts too (though I'd like to know just how much). But then there's the younger private CTS owner (I am assuming it is a Gen II CTS-V) who got killed by Lutz. Experience > Age.
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      10-30-2009, 09:43 AM   #88
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Just out of curiousity Michael - what settings were you running - DSC off? (didnt notice that you mentioned or not)
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