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      10-29-2009, 04:24 PM   #23
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That is a cheap shot! They used their own veteran professional race car driver to beat the M3's lap time by someone who never raced competitively.

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Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
The big issue was with this was it had to be your own titled vehicle and you could not have any mods or have raced the car competitively before. Cooper beat out a lot of cars, including an ///M5. So he is an extremely competent driver. The CTS-V has had tons of testing at Monticello and they have a lot of track time there, they also beat Bill Auberlin in an ///M5 last year there.

I would have loved to see some of the BMW Motorsport guys namely Martin Birkmann take his E90 there and kick some serious tail but the other stipulation was that you could not be an employee of the challenge car manufacturer, nice how GM gets to make the rules and still get some publicity.
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      10-29-2009, 04:26 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by C17MooseDriver View Post
If you read the article, there's more to the story.

Of the actual contests

1. BMW M3 sedan by Michael Cooper 2:50.424
2. CTS-V driven by Jack Baruth of "The Truth About Cars" 2:51.153
3. CTS-V driven by Lawrence Ulrich, a freelance journalist 2:53.157
4. CTS-V driven by Bob Lutz 2:56.321
5. BMW M5 3:05.398
6. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo MR Touring 3:08.126
7. CTS-V 3:14.292
8. Jaguar XF Supercharged 3:15.670
9. Audi RS4 3:15.670

The difference between first and last is an amazing 24.6 seconds.\

Props to Michael Cooper
That's hilarious.

BMW must be thinking "Thanks for the free advertising!"
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      10-29-2009, 04:34 PM   #25
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I don't know... Lutz is 77 some odd years old..
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      10-29-2009, 04:36 PM   #26
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But there were three other CTS-V amateur drivers that weren't 77 years old.
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      10-29-2009, 04:45 PM   #27
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To all you who are not impressed with Michael Coopers performance, shame on you. The kid is 21 and his only track experience is from Skip Barber racing school. This isn't a 1/4 mile straight track, street race, or anything of the sort. This is real racing on a real track that started out with WET conditions. He is an amateur that lost to John H. (a PROFESSIONAL corvette and test driver for GM) by 5 seconds!!!! I'd like to see any of you put down those numbers, stock, when you have never driven that track in your life. Chicane or not, to not be impressed with his performance just shows how idiotic some of you are.

Oh and the whole thing about not being impressed with Bob Lutz either because of his age is ludacris too. I betcha Michael Schumacher will still be putting down great times when he is 70+. Lutz held his own.
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      10-29-2009, 04:47 PM   #28
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The facebook page now has the Cadillac emblem.

Was that old guy holding the racing helmet Lutz?

Anyways I hope Cadillac takes out full page ads with the results.

Speaking of real pro drivers, didn't the Stig get 1:25.3 - BMW M3 (E90) and 1:33.4 - Cadillac CTS-V (very wet) ?
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      10-29-2009, 04:50 PM   #29
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If I recall correctly, Lutz ... while at Chrysler ,landed his Czech fighter jet with the landing gear UP!!. That was a good 15 yrs ago. Cheers to him for getting the car around the course in one piece.
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      10-29-2009, 04:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastLane View Post
To all you who are not impressed with Michael Coopers performance, shame on you. The kid is 21 and his only track experience is from Skip Barber racing school. This isn't a 1/4 mile straight track, street race, or anything of the sort. This is real racing on a real track that started out with WET conditions. He is an amateur that lost to John H. (a PROFESSIONAL corvette and test driver for GM) by 5 seconds!!!! I'd like to see any of you put down those numbers, stock, when you have never driven that track in your life. Chicane or not, to not be impressed with his performance just shows how idiotic some of you are.

Oh and the whole thing about not being impressed with Bob Lutz either because of his age is ludacris too. I betcha Michael Schumacher will still be putting down great times when he is 70+. Lutz held his own.
+1000

And not to mention abusing your own car as stock- I thought about doing this thing as well but part of the requirements was to not use it as publicity or cover it from a media perspective and let's be honest there was no way I was not doing that and I honestly doubt I could have thrown down a number like Cooper did, that is a great time for an ///M3 on that track!
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      10-29-2009, 05:03 PM   #31
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If I recall correctly, Lutz ... while at Chrysler ,landed his Czech fighter jet with the landing gear UP!!. That was a good 15 yrs ago. Cheers to him for getting the car around the course in one piece.
When I am 77 like Lutz,I want to be playing just like him
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      10-29-2009, 05:06 PM   #32
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I don't know guys - not sure I would be giving Michael Cooper the thumps up for beating Lutz? The M3 should be much quicker than the CTS-V (doesnt it weigh around 4300lbs?) around the track and to be beaten by 4+ seconds is almost an eternity.


This past weekend I was at a track that was very technical with over 20 turns. A guy in an M3 was passing an R8 and an 09 GT3 (all were very competent drivers) regularly. Put that guy in the car and he would have beaten all the times I am sure.

But congrats to Michael Cooper...I guess??

Looks to me like Cadillac's publicity stunt paid off in spades - exactly what they were looking for
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      10-29-2009, 05:10 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
+1000

And not to mention abusing your own car as stock- I thought about doing this thing as well but part of the requirements was to not use it as publicity or cover it from a media perspective and let's be honest there was no way I was not doing that and I honestly doubt I could have thrown down a number like Cooper did, that is a great time for an ///M3 on that track!
If I had known that I could have gone to this,I would have been there in a heartbeat!M3's are built to be used on a track!
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      10-29-2009, 05:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
I don't know guys - not sure I would be giving Michael Cooper the thumps up for beating Lutz? The M3 should be much quicker than the CTS-V (doesnt it weigh around 4300lbs?) around the track and to be beaten by 4+ seconds is almost an eternity.


This past weekend I was at a track that was very technical with over 20 turns. A guy in an M3 was passing an R8 and an 09 GT3 (all were very competent drivers) regularly. Put that guy in the car and he would have beaten all the times I am sure.

But congrats to Michael Cooper...I guess??

Looks to me like Cadillac's publicity stunt paid off in spades - exactly what they were looking for
He did beat all the times of the other competitors. The test drivers who beat him weren't actual competitors so there time doesn't count.
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      10-29-2009, 05:23 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C17MooseDriver View Post
He did beat all the times of the other competitors. The test drivers who beat him weren't actual competitors so there time doesn't count.
My point was he would have beaten all the times, not just the competitors, just because they dont "count" doesnt mean they dont exist. If Michael Cooper beat any of the the times that dont "count" I am sure everyone here would still be talking about it.
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      10-29-2009, 05:23 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
I don't know guys - not sure I would be giving Michael Cooper the thumps up for beating Lutz? The M3 should be much quicker than the CTS-V (doesnt it weigh around 4300lbs?) around the track and to be beaten by 4+ seconds is almost an eternity.


This past weekend I was at a track that was very technical with over 20 turns. A guy in an M3 was passing an R8 and an 09 GT3 (all were very competent drivers) regularly. Put that guy in the car and he would have beaten all the times I am sure.

But congrats to Michael Cooper...I guess??

Looks to me like Cadillac's publicity stunt paid off in spades - exactly what they were looking for
Do people read anymore? it wasn't only about Bob Lutz, he beat 3 other people who were not 77!!! please look at the actual times before replying?
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      10-29-2009, 05:26 PM   #37
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Do people read anymore?
I think you better take your own advice....
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      10-29-2009, 05:42 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastLane View Post
To all you who are not impressed with Michael Coopers performance, shame on you. The kid is 21 and his only track experience is from Skip Barber racing school. This isn't a 1/4 mile straight track, street race, or anything of the sort. This is real racing on a real track that started out with WET conditions. He is an amateur that lost to John H. (a PROFESSIONAL corvette and test driver for GM) by 5 seconds!!!! I'd like to see any of you put down those numbers, stock, when you have never driven that track in your life. Chicane or not, to not be impressed with his performance just shows how idiotic some of you are.

Oh and the whole thing about not being impressed with Bob Lutz either because of his age is ludacris too. I betcha Michael Schumacher will still be putting down great times when he is 70+. Lutz held his own.
+1001

Michael Cooper was beat by 3.864 seconds actually, not 5



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
I don't know guys - not sure I would be giving Michael Cooper the thumps up for beating Lutz? The M3 should be much quicker than the CTS-V (doesnt it weigh around 4300lbs?) around the track and to be beaten by 4+ seconds is almost an eternity.


This past weekend I was at a track that was very technical with over 20 turns. A guy in an M3 was passing an R8 and an 09 GT3 (all were very competent drivers) regularly. Put that guy in the car and he would have beaten all the times I am sure.

But congrats to Michael Cooper...I guess??

Looks to me like Cadillac's publicity stunt paid off in spades - exactly what they were looking for
You realize the 4+seconds you are mentioning is the margin which the M3 beat the CTS-V right? The same 4 seconds you called an eternity is what Copper beat Lutz by. And its not even 4 seconds (dont know where you got that number) its 5.897.

The pro racer that got the best time, Heinricy, whos had tons of time with the CTS-V as a test driver and tons of time on that specific track, only beat Cooper by 3.864 seconds.

Really?? Thats not impressive?? Dosnt deserve a thumbs up huh?

You have no idea what you're talking about.

And obviously, you are going in this discussion thinking the CTS-V is not a capable car.



Hows this for capable...

The CTS-V with the same driver, John Heinricy, lapped the nurburgring in 7:59!! Thats the same number the C6 vette put out and the Porsche 911 Carerra S

The best official nurburgring lap time for an M3 is 8:05


But im sure if it was ur buddy in the M3 driving, he would have killed Heinricys time lol

I hate when people downplay some shit they have no idea about.
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      10-29-2009, 05:58 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Moth View Post
As the title says, I'm looking for more info on a chap named Michael Cooper. He recently entered an E90 M3 in GM's CTS-V challenge and defeated CTS-V loudmouth Bob Lutz. The best I've found was a 23 year old racer from PA who also owns MichaelCooperRacing.com. Not sure if its the same dude. I just figured it was good info for the M3 community because this kid was only beaten by a track veteran in a CTS-V and also by John Heinricy. Lap times around the Monticello Raceway were:

Michael Cooper - E90 M3 - 2:50:424
Bob Lutz - CTS-V - 2:56:321
Aaron Link(vet) - CTS-V - 2:48:902
John Heinricy - CTS-V - 2:46:560

Cooper shocked a lot of people today and GM was forced to bring out the big dog drivers to maintain the integrity of the CTS-V at their own challenge. So...... does anyone know who this particular Michael Cooper is and also, could he be a member on this site?

Links below:

CTS-V challenge main site
http://www.ctsvchallenge.com/

Jalopnik site
http://jalopnik.com/5392819/jalopnik...-how-wes-fared
http://jalopnik.com/5392841/jalopnik...bob-beats-blog

Cadillac's fbook page with updates
http://www.facebook.com/cadillac

Disclaimer:
Sorry if this thread is a repost.
Also it was posted in M3 general instead of M3 vs... because this area of the site gets way more traffic.
Vids aren't available yet but should be all over the net later...
I must admit to being a little surprised. Somehow I have more or less been convinced that the M3 would be a little quicker than the CTS-V around most racetracks, primarily because it is significantly quicker than the M5, and the Cadillac is only a bit quicker.

And here I find the CTS-V being comfortably quicker.

I don't know who the bimmer driver is, but I can tell you that:

A) Mr. Lutz is a 77-year-old marketing guy.

B) Mr. Heinricy has racing experience in the distant past and is fast, but make no mistake. He is a chief development engineer for GM's high-performance cars, and is NOT a race driver.

I had sort of mildly discounted the Cadillac's 'Ring times because it had a roll cage, but huh, I guess it's about as fast as they claim it to be, comfortably faster than the M3, and unbelieveably fast for such a porker.

So the moral of the story is: If you're at a light next to a CTS-V, just start screwing with the radio or something, becasue he's going to smoke you to the first turn, and then keep smoking you through the twisties ahead.

Damn! They're not making them anymore!

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      10-29-2009, 06:02 PM   #40
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My point was he would have beaten all the times, not just the competitors, just because they dont "count" doesnt mean they dont exist. If Michael Cooper beat any of the the times that dont "count" I am sure everyone here would still be talking about it.
You're from Canada. You don't "count."
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      10-29-2009, 06:07 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3XTR3M3 View Post
+1001

Michael Cooper was beat by 3.864 seconds actually, not 5





You realize the 4+seconds you are mentioning is the margin which the M3 beat the CTS-V right? The same 4 seconds you called an eternity is what Copper beat Lutz by. And its not even 4 seconds (dont know where you got that number) its 5.897.

The pro racer that got the best time, Heinricy, whos had tons of time with the CTS-V as a test driver and tons of time on that specific track, only beat Cooper by 3.864 seconds.

Really?? Thats not impressive?? Dosnt deserve a thumbs up huh?

You have no idea what you're talking about.

And obviously, you are going in this discussion thinking the CTS-V is not a capable car.



Hows this for capable...

The CTS-V with the same driver, John Heinricy, lapped the nurburgring in 7:59!! Thats the same number the C6 vette put out and the Porsche 911 Carerra S

The best official nurburgring lap time for an M3 is 8:05


But im sure if it was ur buddy in the M3 driving, he would have killed Heinricys time lol

I hate when people downplay some shit they have no idea about.
My mistake he was beat by just under 4 not 4+.

Your missing the point - Everyone here is giving him the thumbs up for beating Lutz, not the two journalists. I think he did pretty well all things considered. I think Heinricy is a great driver and lets be honest, he probably left some time on the track. Put Cooper in the CTS-V and he would have been slower, not faster, just like Heinricy would have been faster around that track in the M3 I am sure. That's the point. I would have thought he would have been faster than the first journalist by more than .7 seconds on that type of track.

I was at the track the past weekend and in a 28 min lapping session I was passing a 800+hp GTR twice - does that earn me bragging rights - nope, clearly the car was either too much for the driver or he was a noob to the track. It appears this Michael Cooper has a bit a driving history himself so I would have thought the gap would have been less.
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      10-29-2009, 06:07 PM   #42
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John Heinricy is not a "professional race driver." He had a long and distinguished career at GM in which he rose to Corvette Chief Engineer and Director of the GM performance division. He retired in October 2008, just before GM filed Chapter 11.

He is an experienced SCCA competitor with a number of championships, but he is an amateur racer. He never competed professionally, and was a little busy with other duties to rise to GM senior management .

As I said before, I don't know much about Mr. Cooper, but he also appears to be an accomplished amateur racer as well, just like Mr. Heinricy.
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      10-29-2009, 06:08 PM   #43
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Quote:
And here I find the CTS-V being comfortably quicker.
Comfortably quicker in the hands of Johnny O'Connell, an active ALMS driver, and John Heinricy - who is GM's equivalent of a Hans Stuck or a Walter Rohl.

Versus the time set by a kid off the street in his stock M3 whose sum total track experience is the Skip Barber Racing School.

Ouch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foosh
John Heinricy is not a "professional race driver."
Heinricy has raced professionally for GM many times. I watched him race a Corvette in the SCCA World Challenge about 15 years ago. I know that more recently he's also raced one of the CTS-V Speed World Challenge cars, too.

The facts are these -

Lutz arrogantly issued a challenge for all comers to bring their sedans to race the CTS-V with himself at the wheel, thinking it was going to be some kind of media coup for GM. Instead they got beaten by a random M3 owner and they had to call in their A team pro drivers in order to wipe the egg off of their faces.

tl;dr LOL GM
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      10-29-2009, 06:12 PM   #44
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Quote:
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You're from Canada. You don't "count."
I am fine with that - but clearly I am making a few people's blood boil!

It's all good - some people just get a little too wound up sometimes is all
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