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      11-02-2009, 10:04 AM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post

We know that it will be limited. Though, we don't know if this is the actual figure. Anyways, 25 per year would still be enough as far as BMW is concerned. If there were a crazy market for pure BMW cars like this, they would have built a new CSL.



Best regards,
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Your right about the fact that if they thought there was a real market for the M3 CSL, they would have just built that. But if they are already going through with building a special M3, why not make at least 250 (which is still a small # considering it is a mass produced car with less options, and lighter components) ?
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      11-02-2009, 10:07 AM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
The information on the weight drop differs quite a bit. It seems like 100 kg at least, but some say BMW managed to drop another 80 - 100kg. Seems like we need to wait a little more until knowing this for sure.


Best regards,
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South...this is sick news.

Do you know when these will be available in the marketplace....obvi I live in the US so more than likely it wont matter for me....but just curious as to the offical release date?
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      11-02-2009, 10:39 AM   #333
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The magnitude of this news is relative to the people's wallet. IMHO, a lot of people can only wish (I am one of them) that they can afford this enhanced M3, if BMW Motorsport decided to release it here in the US. Don't get me wrong about my perceptions. I am excited with this news with the same enthusiam as watching the M3 ALMS. But I am hopeful that this new M3 will trickled down to the future M3 model.
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      11-02-2009, 10:41 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by southlight View Post
The information on the weight drop differs quite a bit. It seems like 100 kg at least, but some say BMW managed to drop another 80 - 100kg. Seems like we need to wait a little more until knowing this for sure.


Best regards,
south
Agreed, the weight reduction sounds very small for the improvement in lap time and the suggested price. I was only commenting on what I read.
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      11-02-2009, 10:45 AM   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
My guess is the next M3 will almost approach this level of performance but without all the extreme measures and at a faction of the price. Personally I'm waiting until 2012-3.
I agree, footie. This extreme M3 sounds amazing, but for the kind of money that BMW will be charging, I'd rather buy a GT3. To me, a Porsche is always a step up from a BMW, even if the said Bimmer is a track monster. Most people will perceive it as a modded up M3 and won't give it the proper respect that it deserves. Mind you, I couldn't care less about what other people think as most people couldn't tell the difference between a 335i or an M3 if their life depended on it.

As for me, I too will wait on the next M3. All the performance of the "M3 GT" or whatever they call it, for 1/3 less the price. And it will be a newer model to boot. I'll take a 4 door, please!
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      11-02-2009, 10:48 AM   #336
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South

I think you mean Arvin Meritor and not Arvin Mertor ... but on their homepage are many car intims shown, but more suspension systems and body part for all kind of automobiles and NO exhaust systems ... seems unwise to take an system of an absolut newcomer instead of using the proven akrapovic system as in the race GT4 ... could it be that Arvin Meritor is only making the Akra TÜV compartible with new better 200cell Cats?

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      11-02-2009, 11:39 AM   #337
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Nice to see BMW still developing the E9x to see what it can do. I don't understand those who are dumping on the specs/price (if they indeed prove out). The car will have a lot of appeal to enthusiasts and if I had the $ and it was available here, I would probably get it over a GT3. I'm no BMW fanboy but I expect it will be a special car...

Thanks to Savage, South and LMB for all the info. Can't wait to see the official announcement and pics - that thing in Inka orange will look incredible.
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      11-02-2009, 11:46 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
South

I think you mean Arvin Meritor and not Arvin Mertor ... but on their homepage are many car intims shown, but more suspension systems and body part for all kind of automobiles and NO exhaust systems ... seems unwise to take an system of an absolut newcomer instead of using the proven akrapovic system as in the race GT4 ... could it be that Arvin Meritor is only making the Akra TÜV compartible with new better 200cell Cats?

Uli_HH
You're right, I corrected the name. This piece of information came from LMB, so he might know the answer to this.


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south
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      11-02-2009, 11:51 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
it wont be as fast, wont be as fast on the track, wont cost much less and prob wont be as exciting to drive as a GT3 either.
How do you figure the "fast" part? Ring time of 7:40 seems to be quite competitive.

If you look at the E46 CSL, despite the fact that it was quite exciting to drive and similarly fast on track with the GT3 of the time (7:52 Ring time if I recall correctly), they had trouble selling it at that price level. They correctly concluded that no matter how nice the car was, only so many people were prepared to pay that much money for a sedan derivative.

But it mostly had to do with the image, not the performance of the car itself. Image is everything in that price category.

BMW will only be able to sell a E100k performance car if they make a bespoke model/line, that has absolutely nothing in common with a 320d Coupe. (Not even the general layout/shape, as the current M3 does).
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      11-02-2009, 11:55 AM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I talked to a good Italian friend of mine () and we think that it might be the right time to share some information.

All kudos for this information goes to Savage.Ulm1! I added some comments in light blue.

EDIT: Lemans_Blue_M added some more information in dark blue


Name
  • It won't be called M3 CSL.
  • Instead, BMW will either call it "M3 GT4 Street" or "M3 GT".
Engine | Drivetrain
  • Naturally aspirated engine with an increased displacement of 4,400 cc (based on the S65).
  • At least 450 hp, likely more. (445 HP)
  • No information regarding KERS (KERS will likely debut in the F10 M5)
  • 7 speed DCT only, no manual transmission.
  • 'State of the art' exhaust system, but not Akrapovic.- (ARVIN MERITOR /w/200-cell race cats and 2 resonators)
Chassis | Brakes | Aerodynamics:
  • Brembo brakes (6 pistons front - 4 pistons rear) with steel brake discs. (365mm front, 345mm rear SLOTTED DISCS) Ceramic composite brakes optionally available.
  • Weight reduction of 100 kg (220 lbs) compared to E92 M3, maybe even more. (due to the removal of the rear seat and the switch to lighter RECARO front race seats)
  • Available as a 2 seater. However, rear seats are optionally available.
  • Rollbars standard (there's a delete option).
  • Adjustable front splitter. (made of ABS plastic)
  • Adjustable mechanical suspension, no EDC. (SACHS)
  • 25 mm lower compared to E92 M3
  • Same width as the E92 M3.
  • Fantastic new wheels. (BBS lightweight cast flow formed MESH)
  • New 'state of the art' seats. (RECARO)
General information


  • Nuerburgring laptime: 7:40 min
  • Not available through BMW dealer network, but directly from BMW Motorsport.
  • Street legal (of course).
  • Exclusively painted in Inka Orange (a hommage to early BMW race and sports cars). Availability of other colors at a later date.
  • The car was tested secretly in France and on a private race track (likely Miramas).
  • It will compete with the 911 GT3.
  • Limited Production (some report 25 units per year).
  • Price: Unknown, but less than the price for an 911 GT3. ($110,000 EUROS)
Note: There's no information as to its availability in the U.S. yet. (NOT AVAILABLE IN THE U.S.A.)




Best regards,
south
Considering that I am in Paris, France still I could go back to the dealership those guys rumored to me about this car coming. Maybe I can get more information out of them...

However, I thought it would be for the entire line of M3s not just a special one... I am sad to hear it is only a DCT...
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      11-02-2009, 12:01 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
How do you figure the "fast" part? Ring time of 7:40 seems to be quite competitive.

If you look at the E46 CSL, despite the fact that it was quite exciting to drive and similarly fast on track with the GT3 of the time (7:52 Ring time if I recall correctly), they had trouble selling it at that price level. They correctly concluded that no matter how nice the car was, only so many people were prepared to pay that much money for a sedan derivative.

But it mostly had to do with the image, not the performance of the car itself. Image is everything in that price category.

BMW will only be able to sell a E100k performance car if they make a bespoke model/line, that has absolutely nothing in common with a 320d Coupe. (Not even the general layout/shape, as the current M3 does).
100% correct, that's the reason for the limited supply. I remember the E46CSL had to drop the price by close on 20% to clear the remaining stock in UK dealerships, though admittedly BMW did built a shit load more of them than 25 units per year. I reckon this one will hold better money than any of it's competitors due to this fact.
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      11-02-2009, 12:22 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
South

I think you mean Arvin Meritor and not Arvin Mertor ... but on their homepage are many car intims shown, but more suspension systems and body part for all kind of automobiles and NO exhaust systems ... seems unwise to take an system of an absolut newcomer instead of using the proven akrapovic system as in the race GT4 ... could it be that Arvin Meritor is only making the Akra TÜV compartible with new better 200cell Cats?

Uli_HH
FYI: Arvin Meritor is the OE exhaust manufacturer for the E9x M3, E46 M3, and the E46 M3 CSL.
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      11-02-2009, 12:23 PM   #343
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      11-02-2009, 12:50 PM   #344
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engine and brake should have come with the regular m3. I'm disappointed they didn't widen the rear fenders and inch or so to give it a more aggressive look.
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      11-02-2009, 12:57 PM   #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
+1



-1

When I first saw this post by Savage, I was already scheming to sell my M3, buy this one, and see if putting a stroker into it makes sense. I was seriously psyched about the whole idea.

For many people, I realize there's a huge appeal to a "factory" car being offered like this -- because they are squeemish about putting so many modifications into their brand new car and voiding their "factory" warranty. But this isn't really a factory car -- is it? Since this comes from BMW Motorsport, I'm wondering what kind of "factory" warranty is available.

Now after seeing the specs, I think I'm a little disappointed. There's very little in this car, that most of us RS46 customers haven't done, and nothing at all that KonigsTiger didn't do to his RS46 in the following thread:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288953

And when you consider the price, I think the appeal tips in favor of taking your current M3 and modifying it to your tastes for the same, or less money. If you go the aftermarket route, you get to pick and choose which features you want to add and/or delete. For the same money, you end up with a car that completely individualized to your tastes.

We'll see if anything changes with the official announcement. If not, then for me personally, it's a big .
exactly. I wonder how much weight you can save from strip the rear seat and put recaro pole on the front? lighter 18 forged rims, bbk, coilover and you may give htis a run for the money.

and if weight is an issue, order the e92 m3 with no option. save ton of weight there too.
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      11-02-2009, 01:05 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
+1
...
-1
Exactly. +2, -2. Not very heavily modified. Not a great power bump nor weight loss. You can get very close to 500 hp with no stroker kit and no FI, just lots of sensible bolt on mods. Especially not impressive for the price. You can do WAY better with less money with aftermarket. One big argument I made early on in favor of the M3 over a modded 335i was that you could not exceed it all around for the price difference spent in mods. Here the opposite will be true. Of course then there is the 25 cars only and that fact that it will not come to the US.

All in all I'm very underwhelmed by this big news....
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      11-02-2009, 01:13 PM   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post
For many people, I realize there's a huge appeal to a "factory" car being offered like this -- because they are squeemish about putting so many modifications into their brand new car and voiding their "factory" warranty. But this isn't really a factory car -- is it? Since this comes from BMW Motorsport, I'm wondering what kind of "factory" warranty is available.

Now after seeing the specs, I think I'm a little disappointed. There's very little in this car, that most of us RS46 customers haven't done, and nothing at all that KonigsTiger didn't do to his RS46 in the following thread:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288953

And when you consider the price, I think the appeal tips in favor of taking your current M3 and modifying it to your tastes for the same, or less money. If you go the aftermarket route, you get to pick and choose which features you want to add and/or delete. For the same money, you end up with a car that completely individualized to your tastes.

We'll see if anything changes with the official announcement. If not, then for me personally, it's a big .

The main difference is that the factory car with it's limited number will be worth far more compared to a stock M3 that is modified to death. Your car will be worth F'all come the time you sell it.
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      11-02-2009, 01:20 PM   #348
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This is "big news"? Who cares... the car will be like the e46 m3 GTR... so unbelievably rare that it really doesn't matter that it exists or not... other then the fact that you can drive one in forza 3.

Big mistake BMW... you should've applied to e46 CSL formula to the normal e92 and sold it in the US piggybacking on the gt3's sales success.
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      11-02-2009, 01:23 PM   #349
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i think it's pretty impressive and would consider getting one if it were available in the US. first mod would be to ditch that fugly inca orange color though.
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      11-02-2009, 01:53 PM   #350
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a bit anti-climatic after all this ancitipation
445hp?
wow so i pay $163,000 for 30hp more?
i have a better option
add the Dinan ECU upgrade, high flow exhaust, high flow intake, and high flow throttle bodies and you get 30hp, 23lb/ft extra
with the factory warranty still intact and all done at a BMW dealership
total cost $6250 plus install
and hey for $100 i'll take out your rear seat and put it on the for sale forum
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      11-02-2009, 02:10 PM   #351
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So... how can I get my hands on one of these? Just out of curiousity, can I buy one in Europe through my US address? Or do I have to use my european addy?
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      11-02-2009, 02:24 PM   #352
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yeah.. i thought this was going to be news that actually affected m3 owners, like a competition package. something this rare has about as much bearing on me as a consumer as the development of the alms m3
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