BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
MINHS Automotive
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-19-2014, 06:38 PM   #1
The HACK
Garland Operator 7G
The HACK's Avatar
45
Rep
3,521
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2013 Veloster Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

2015 Pacific Region BMW CCA track days...

Track: Date (Chapter Hosting)

Chuckwalla: March 07-08 (San Diego)

Buttonwillow: May 08 (Central Cal)

Thunderhill (3 mi): August 1-2 (Golden Gate)

Spring Mountain (same 3.4 mi course): October 24-25 (Los Angeles)

These are confirmed dates with contract in hand. Below are dates still being worked on:

Auto Club Speedway: (Still working on a date, probably a Sunday 1-day in September)

Thunderhill (5 mi): Early November

There's still a chance Golden Gate may work in a Laguna Seca date in there somewhere.
__________________
Quote:
No way I'd ever take my BMW to the track.
Quote:
Then why do you have $3,000 worth of suspension mods on your car?
Quote:
...
-Overheard at the last B****rfest.
Appreciate 0
      12-21-2014, 12:54 AM   #2
Triple M
Doc Rebel!
Triple M's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
295
Posts

Drives: Fire Orange M3, X5M, Blk 135
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Vegas Baby!

iTrader: (0)

Logging the dates into my calendar now. I can't wait.
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2014, 07:35 PM   #3
USCTrojanMan29
Captain
12
Rep
888
Posts

Drives: Purple People Eater
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Around

iTrader: (2)

Hack, will the Spring Mountain event have a A+ advanced training format like the one in Dec 2013? Also, can I bring a fully track prepped car to the event?
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2014, 07:40 PM   #4
The HACK
Garland Operator 7G
The HACK's Avatar
45
Rep
3,521
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2013 Veloster Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Yes and yes, if the fully prepped car has equal restraints for the passenger.

Unless rules change regarding the passenger. I don't remember who I heard this from, but there's talk of national allowing a "solo" class of drivers that will not require an in-car instructor. I don't know where that proposal stands, it's above my pay grade.
__________________
Quote:
No way I'd ever take my BMW to the track.
Quote:
Then why do you have $3,000 worth of suspension mods on your car?
Quote:
...
-Overheard at the last B****rfest.
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2014, 07:51 PM   #5
tlp
Colonel
tlp's Avatar
United_States
73
Rep
2,090
Posts

Drives: '11 e92 M3 SG/FR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 BMW e92 M3  [4.55]
Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Yes and yes, if the fully prepped car has equal restraints for the passenger.

Unless rules change regarding the passenger. I don't remember who I heard this from, but there's talk of national allowing a "solo" class of drivers that will not require an in-car instructor. I don't know where that proposal stands, it's above my pay grade.


Not that there's anything wrong with that...
__________________
My Coding Journal
Current - '11 e92 M3 SG/FR ZCP|ZCV|ZP2|2MK|494|415|6NR|752
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2014, 11:17 PM   #6
aus
Major General
United_States
124
Rep
7,474
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (5)

Thanks HACK.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      12-23-2014, 01:49 PM   #7
PrimeBMW
Captain
PrimeBMW's Avatar
No_Country
13
Rep
812
Posts

Drives: E46 M3+S62, E92 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Maybe I will try to hit that 5 mile Thunderhill in November. I have no idea if my car will fit within one of the BMW CCA racing classes. (Guessing there will be BMW CCA racing there in addition)
Appreciate 0
      12-24-2014, 12:03 AM   #8
admranger
Lieutenant
admranger's Avatar
6
Rep
462
Posts

Drives: 2002 M3, 2005 X5, 2011 M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
Maybe I will try to hit that 5 mile Thunderhill in November. I have no idea if my car will fit within one of the BMW CCA racing classes. (Guessing there will be BMW CCA racing there in addition)
I'm sure it'll fit in super modified, worse case.

As far as solo run groups at BMW CCA driving schools, I'm confused where the 'school' portion of the driving school is then? I know, I too wished for the instructor/ballast to get out of the right seat as much as anyone when I was a student. However, the learning curve flattened or declined during those solo sessions.

I understand the financial driver (ha! a pun!) of a solo group, but it is no longer a school at that point imnsho. Classroom only goes so far. You need some in-car help to hone and develop skills (faster) in most cases. It's the rare student that can continue to develop without instruction (proper data acquisition AND analysis being the equivalent of an in car instructor, imho). Finding brave (or stupid, your call) souls to sit in the right seat while you drive at the advanced level with today's cars is becoming more difficult.

Regardless, looks like a nice assortment of schools available in 2015.
__________________
'11 E90 M3, Mebourne/Black/Fox Red/Black, 6MT, PP2, heated seats, moonroof, split folding rear seats, iPod/USB adapter, Technic harness, JL XD 6/600.
'02 E46M3, Imola/Black, 6MT, CWP, no sunroof, Ohlins, Eibachs, PFC DD rotors, PFC pads! HAT Clarus/Legatia speakers, 2 big amps in the back.
'05 X5 4.4i, Imola/Black, Premium, Cold, HAT Imagine 6.5's, Intravee iPod adapter

Last edited by admranger; 12-24-2014 at 12:37 AM.
Appreciate 0
      12-24-2014, 10:30 PM   #9
Triple M
Doc Rebel!
Triple M's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
295
Posts

Drives: Fire Orange M3, X5M, Blk 135
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Vegas Baby!

iTrader: (0)

I hope I get chance to kidnap a few instructors no matter what run group I'm in. I can't get enough of the schools. I learn so much in every one of those schools, too bad there they are so few. The last school I went to had so much emphasis on tire dynamics and data that I could easily spend the whole absorbing and it still won't be enough. Heck, I have so many other non-school seat times throughout the year that the school is truly unique to me. Most of those guys drive at levels I can only dream of.
After 12 years, I finally learn that different things happen to you and the car 40 minutes into a session that normally won't happen in a usual 25 min session
Keep the schools coming, at least until I can afford more personal coaching
Appreciate 0
      12-25-2014, 12:11 AM   #10
tlp
Colonel
tlp's Avatar
United_States
73
Rep
2,090
Posts

Drives: '11 e92 M3 SG/FR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 BMW e92 M3  [4.55]
Personally, I would like to see a program where Advanced/A drivers earn a CCA solo license followed by classroom sessions that critique by using video, data analysis and observation with more of a coaching/mentoring role.

The AiM Solo has been indispensable for my progression. I get tons of feedback going over the data points and overlaying my data with similar cars. Looking at the basic “money” channels of speed, g's and a friction map gives you a general idea as to whether you meeting the fundamentals or not. The post debrief of video + data gleaning/distillation really puts things in perspective. I always go back and review my data rendered videos when I revisit a track and put together a game plan for the next event.

Right or wrong, good or bad I find myself driving slightly differently with an instructor beside me vs solo. Sometimes to the point of simply pleasing the instructor. This is mostly due to the crosstalk in my head trying to process and compartmentalize what the instructor just said on the previous turn/section vs what I need to do in the current turn/section. Personally I have found "show" with an instructor ride in their car vs "tell" to be the most valuable instruction at this stage.

These CCA schools are too far and few. How about instruction/training that gives us the tools/feedback to further progress after school is out. BMWCCA continuation School .

On the other hand it would be great if BMWCCA had more of a structured series/season out West that was mixed with Driver Education and Time Trial or Club Racing. Similar to how the POC and PCA run their events.
__________________
My Coding Journal
Current - '11 e92 M3 SG/FR ZCP|ZCV|ZP2|2MK|494|415|6NR|752
Appreciate 0
      12-25-2014, 01:00 AM   #11
aus
Major General
United_States
124
Rep
7,474
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post
I'm sure it'll fit in super modified, worse case.

As far as solo run groups at BMW CCA driving schools, I'm confused where the 'school' portion of the driving school is then? I know, I too wished for the instructor/ballast to get out of the right seat as much as anyone when I was a student. However, the learning curve flattened or declined during those solo sessions.

I understand the financial driver (ha! a pun!) of a solo group, but it is no longer a school at that point imnsho. Classroom only goes so far. You need some in-car help to hone and develop skills (faster) in most cases. It's the rare student that can continue to develop without instruction (proper data acquisition AND analysis being the equivalent of an in car instructor, imho). Finding brave (or stupid, your call) souls to sit in the right seat while you drive at the advanced level with today's cars is becoming more difficult.

Regardless, looks like a nice assortment of schools available in 2015.
I thought the A+ guys were essentially running solo all day except for that 30 minute signoff session??

.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      12-25-2014, 03:53 PM   #12
admranger
Lieutenant
admranger's Avatar
6
Rep
462
Posts

Drives: 2002 M3, 2005 X5, 2011 M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (0)

It's more like a few laps to ensure they aren't completely clueless and then off you go.

However, the classroom bits are pretty informative, as are the times when one of the A+ instructors sneaks up and follows you around for a bit. When I've let A+ cars go by me I've noticed some that couldn't hit an apex if their life depended on it. They are fast, but they aren't maximizing the potential of their cars and they are adding risk to themselves by missing apexes (6" off the apex of a fast corner can mean an off when you're at the limit).

There are plusses and minuses of the A+ program. I support the program, but I'm not sure the A+ drivers, especially those who are more visual learners (tlp's comment on 'show' vs. 'tell') will struggle more. FWIW, I'm a visual learner.
__________________
'11 E90 M3, Mebourne/Black/Fox Red/Black, 6MT, PP2, heated seats, moonroof, split folding rear seats, iPod/USB adapter, Technic harness, JL XD 6/600.
'02 E46M3, Imola/Black, 6MT, CWP, no sunroof, Ohlins, Eibachs, PFC DD rotors, PFC pads! HAT Clarus/Legatia speakers, 2 big amps in the back.
'05 X5 4.4i, Imola/Black, Premium, Cold, HAT Imagine 6.5's, Intravee iPod adapter
Appreciate 0
      12-27-2014, 12:33 AM   #13
USCTrojanMan29
Captain
12
Rep
888
Posts

Drives: Purple People Eater
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Around

iTrader: (2)

I too tend to drive differently with an instructor in the car. Kind of like trying to please the instructor and make them feel comfortable (since I know they are taking a risk getting in the passenger seat). I definitely dial it down a notch and don't experiment as much with an instructor in the car. Some data analysis and a instructor flowing me on the track would be a great way to get to the next level.
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2015, 12:03 AM   #14
aus
Major General
United_States
124
Rep
7,474
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (5)

Is Buttonwillow registration open yet?
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      01-23-2015, 03:42 PM   #15
The HACK
Garland Operator 7G
The HACK's Avatar
45
Rep
3,521
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2013 Veloster Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Is Buttonwillow registration open yet?
Probably not for a couple of weeks.
__________________
Quote:
No way I'd ever take my BMW to the track.
Quote:
Then why do you have $3,000 worth of suspension mods on your car?
Quote:
...
-Overheard at the last B****rfest.
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2015, 07:40 PM   #16
The HACK
Garland Operator 7G
The HACK's Avatar
45
Rep
3,521
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2013 Veloster Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Probably not for a couple of weeks.
Registration link up, registration not officially open yet (will run it by CCC DEC first)

http://msreg.com/BMWCCACCC05082015BW
__________________
Quote:
No way I'd ever take my BMW to the track.
Quote:
Then why do you have $3,000 worth of suspension mods on your car?
Quote:
...
-Overheard at the last B****rfest.
Appreciate 0
      01-29-2015, 11:10 PM   #17
aus
Major General
United_States
124
Rep
7,474
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (5)

Chuckwalla is open now too.

http://www.motorsportreg.com/events/...0#.VMsDsivF98F

I somehow have to make more than 2-3 events a year. My tires are getting old at this rate.
.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      01-30-2015, 08:49 AM   #18
gobuffs
Captain
8
Rep
631
Posts

Drives: E30 M3 S65 (race car)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Texas

iTrader: (4)

Just because a student is required to have an instructor in the car doesn't mean they can't request one.
Appreciate 0
      02-12-2015, 10:47 PM   #19
aus
Major General
United_States
124
Rep
7,474
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (5)

Anyone else going to chuckwalla?
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2015, 01:28 AM   #20
arter
collecting toys
arter's Avatar
8
Rep
782
Posts

Drives: M3 MCB
Join Date: May 2008
Location: rochester, ny

iTrader: (0)

Just signed up with my Cayman for Chuckwalla. Lets see if they let us Porsche scum in ( no longer have my M3 now that I moved to California).

I was a A-solo with GVC and liked it as a change. Would do a 10-15 minute or longer session as a check ride although you could ask for additional full sessions.
Usually told the instructor what I was working on, they observe and comment on how you are doing, and then they sign you off for that weekend. You still had classroom discussions and the instructors ran with the group and commented on how people were driving.
When I ran A group, I was usually signed off by the end of the 2nd session of the first day anyways.

The Porsche PCA's tend to have 70% of their people running solo at PCA events so I could see solo groups occurring with BMW CCA. The BMW CCA still has the best instruction of any program I have been in.
__________________
2011 e92 M3 Monte Carlo Blue ESS 535 - gone but not forgotten
2015 cayman GTS - new toy
2006 SLK 55 AMG sold
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2015, 01:16 PM   #21
PrimeBMW
Captain
PrimeBMW's Avatar
No_Country
13
Rep
812
Posts

Drives: E46 M3+S62, E92 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arter View Post
Just signed up with my Cayman for Chuckwalla. Lets see if they let us Porsche scum in ( no longer have my M3 now that I moved to California).

I was a A-solo with GVC and liked it as a change. Would do a 10-15 minute or longer session as a check ride although you could ask for additional full sessions.
Usually told the instructor what I was working on, they observe and comment on how you are doing, and then they sign you off for that weekend. You still had classroom discussions and the instructors ran with the group and commented on how people were driving.
When I ran A group, I was usually signed off by the end of the 2nd session of the first day anyways.

The Porsche PCA's tend to have 70% of their people running solo at PCA events so I could see solo groups occurring with BMW CCA. The BMW CCA still has the best instruction of any program I have been in.
After sign off solo: Do they make you have an instructor the first session of the second day? The GGC does as we were told one guy showed up drunk from the night before (previous year). They treat everyone as a possible drunk the second morning.
Appreciate 0
      02-13-2015, 01:44 PM   #22
The HACK
Garland Operator 7G
The HACK's Avatar
45
Rep
3,521
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2013 Veloster Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeBMW View Post
After sign off solo: Do they make you have an instructor the first session of the second day? The GGC does as we were told one guy showed up drunk from the night before (previous year). They treat everyone as a possible drunk the second morning.
In the good 'ol days you'd have to be more worried about the INSTRUCTORS showing up drunk.

All sign-offs are treated like the sign-off never happened on Saturday for a 2 day school. You will have a new instructor in car and he/she will assess your skills and determine what they can impart to improve your driving for the day...And if it's sign-off to go solo for more seat time to work on the craft, so be it...But you WILL have an instructor in car for day 2.

A+ is run differently though. I believe it's at the discretion of the Chief Instructor whether or not A+ will get another check ride on Sunday.
__________________
Quote:
No way I'd ever take my BMW to the track.
Quote:
Then why do you have $3,000 worth of suspension mods on your car?
Quote:
...
-Overheard at the last B****rfest.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10 AM.




m3post
m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST