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      03-16-2015, 03:05 PM   #1
r3zon8
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Need help with pad/wheel/tire track setup for E92 ZCP

I started participating in track events mid last year and I see myself participating in 4-5 events on a yearly basis in the future.

Focusing on wheel/tire/brakes, my E92 ZCP is completely stock. As my experience has gone up I've noticed the brakes beginning to fade after the second hot lap. It may also be the tires(Bridgestone S-04). So to keep this short I've come to conclusion that I would like a track setup that I could swap out the day before the event

Brake Setup: (my plan for a pseudo-stage1 track setup)
Track Pad Setup:PFC-08 Compound for Front+Rear
Front: 0918.08.19.44
Rear: 0919.08.16.44
Rotors= Keep stock

Wheels: Need some help here
Idea: Apex 19x9.5F ET22 , 19x10.5R ET25

Tires: need alot of help here

Fluid: Castrol SRF fluid flush
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      03-16-2015, 03:41 PM   #2
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Those pads are excellent

For wheels, most use the 18x10. Et 25 arc8 wheels front and rear to be able to rotate the tires. 18 arc8 will clear the brakes just fine, even 17 arc8 will. There's around a 20% price difference between the same tires in one inch smaller diameter, so this can add up quick

For tires, if you are a beginner or intermediate a set of rs3 in square 275/35 is a great setup
Other tires that also work well are Dunlop ZII, Nitto NT05, Bridgestone RE11A, BFG Rival S, etc etc

I like SRF because I don't have to bleed the brakes every event

Once you're through your OEM rotors I suggest you go to the PFC DD rotors and solid caliper guides. I had this setup on my E46M and it was very, very robust.

You probably want camber plates as well to manage the sidewall wear. Not running them can be very expensive as you'll go through tires in a single weekend

You could also get a scroth quik fit pro for the driver seat which secures you in place and even allows for a Hans. It's well worth the added comfort

Welcome to the worst addiction of all!

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 03-16-2015 at 03:52 PM.
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      03-16-2015, 04:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Those pads are excellent

For wheels, most use the 18x10. Et 25 arc8 wheels front and rear to be able to rotate the tires. 18 arc8 will clear the brakes just fine, even 17 arc8 will. There's around a 20% price difference between the same tires in one inch smaller diameter, so this can add up quick

For tires, if you are a beginner or intermediate a set of rs3 in square 275/35 is a great setup
Other tires that also work well are Dunlop ZII, Nitto NT05, Bridgestone RE11A, BFG Rival S, etc etc

I like SRF because I don't have to bleed the brakes every event

Once you're through your OEM rotors I suggest you go to the PFC DD rotors and solid caliper guides. I had this setup on my E46M and it was very, very robust.

You probably want camber plates as well to manage the sidewall wear. Not running them can be very expensive as you'll go through tires in a single weekend

You could also get a scroth quik fit pro for the driver seat which secures you in place and even allows for a Hans. It's well worth the added comfort

Welcome to the worst addiction of all!
To OP, SYT Shadow is spot on. That is the same methodology I had applied and was plenty happy. Search for 'camber pin removal' in suspension. If you still burn the outside tires and its not driver related (by then you will be cranking), get the plates. But setup above is brilliant.

I am running PF DD rotors with solid guide pins with zero issues (not needed until you are burning through a set of front pads every weekend).

Regards,

Lutfy
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      03-16-2015, 04:24 PM   #4
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17" Arc 8 will not allow ST60 or equivalent up front. You will need ST40 up front which I would not do, but would be nice for swapping pads and getting all the life out of them.
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      03-16-2015, 05:34 PM   #5
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I finally put in my GC street camber plates the day before the Chuckwalla school. Got the toe set to zero and I was off. What a difference having real camber up front makes to the car! So much easier to drive and the tires aren't dead after an event (I was instructing).

Everything else you put on your list is fine. I agree with running street tires.

I run the RE-11 tire but the RS-3 tire is nice too. Bridgestone is coming out with a new tire to replace the RE-11. I think that the Tire Rack has it. Nice thing is the tread pattern is just like the old RE01R's (symmetrical), but with better compound and construction it should be a killer tire. Can't wait to get my hands on a set.

Best thing you can do is fix the seat to steering wheel interface (that'd be you!). It's the weakest link in the chain. There are a small set of people who can extract 100% of the M3's capability out of the car. I'm not one of them.
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      03-17-2015, 12:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Those pads are excellent

For wheels, most use the 18x10. Et 25 arc8 wheels front and rear to be able to rotate the tires. 18 arc8 will clear the brakes just fine, even 17 arc8 will. There's around a 20% price difference between the same tires in one inch smaller diameter, so this can add up quick

For tires, if you are a beginner or intermediate a set of rs3 in square 275/35 is a great setup
Other tires that also work well are Dunlop ZII, Nitto NT05, Bridgestone RE11A, BFG Rival S, etc etc

I like SRF because I don't have to bleed the brakes every event

Once you're through your OEM rotors I suggest you go to the PFC DD rotors and solid caliper guides. I had this setup on my E46M and it was very, very robust.

You probably want camber plates as well to manage the sidewall wear. Not running them can be very expensive as you'll go through tires in a single weekend

You could also get a scroth quik fit pro for the driver seat which secures you in place and even allows for a Hans. It's well worth the added comfort

Welcome to the worst addiction of all!
Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it. I am surprised but glad to see I was on the right track(pun intended) on parts and upgrade ideas.

Tires:
street vs r-compound. i noticed all these tires were street. my thought was since the apex set was only for track events, i would purchase r-compound tires. BFG R1, Ventus Z214, Hoosier R7...etc. any pros/cons to my thoughts? would the r-compounds out-brake my stage1(pad+fluid) upgrade?

Rotors:
I did have my eye on the PFC DD for the Front once my OEMs were up for replacement(and simply use PFC rotors for daily driving going forward). I am still under warranty and the dealer has been kind enough to replace parts even considering my accelerated use. also noticed PFC does not carry REAR rotors. i read that most drivers simply throw 08 compound pads in the rear and ignore the eye sore. i can be a little OCD.

Brakes: If or when the time comes for a kitted upgrade my sights are set on the PFC Z54 kit for front/rear. will the kit fit the Apex ARC-8 18x10 without issue?
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      03-17-2015, 12:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lutfy View Post
To OP, SYT Shadow is spot on. That is the same methodology I had applied and was plenty happy. Search for 'camber pin removal' in suspension. If you still burn the outside tires and its not driver related (by then you will be cranking), get the plates. But setup above is brilliant.

I am running PF DD rotors with solid guide pins with zero issues (not needed until you are burning through a set of front pads every weekend).

Regards,

Lutfy
For the GC camber plates, is it this:
http://www.ground-control-store.com/.../II=886/CA=269

Yes I did notice the outside edge/walls on the S04's were very worn after 1 event. was it because of camber?
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      03-17-2015, 02:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 View Post
For the GC camber plates, is it this:
http://www.ground-control-store.com/.../II=886/CA=269

Yes I did notice the outside edge/walls on the S04's were very worn after 1 event. was it because of camber?
Yes, that is them and yes, that is due to camber
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      03-17-2015, 02:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 View Post
Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it. I am surprised but glad to see I was on the right track(pun intended) on parts and upgrade ideas.

Tires:
street vs r-compound. i noticed all these tires were street. my thought was since the apex set was only for track events, i would purchase r-compound tires. BFG R1, Ventus Z214, Hoosier R7...etc. any pros/cons to my thoughts? would the r-compounds out-brake my stage1(pad+fluid) upgrade?

Rotors:
I did have my eye on the PFC DD for the Front once my OEMs were up for replacement(and simply use PFC rotors for daily driving going forward). I am still under warranty and the dealer has been kind enough to replace parts even considering my accelerated use. also noticed PFC does not carry REAR rotors. i read that most drivers simply throw 08 compound pads in the rear and ignore the eye sore. i can be a little OCD.

Brakes: If or when the time comes for a kitted upgrade my sights are set on the PFC Z54 kit for front/rear. will the kit fit the Apex ARC-8 18x10 without issue?
You're welcome

I would not run R comps being new to the track, simply because you're learning the car's limits. You'll find the limits in an RS3 at much lower speeds than in a R1, so until your reflexes are fast enough that is my reco and the generally accepted one.
I painfully maintained my street track setup with RS3s and now happily keep up with cars on Nitto NT01s. The day I run those tires I will be significantly faster than them.

Just the other day I was looking at a graph that illustrated this very clearly. A street tire has a wide area of max grip, so you approach it, exceed it, it sounds loud so you know you´re exceeding the limit but even when it slips it is consistent. A good Rcomp like an R1 or a Hoosier has a grip curve that is a spike: once you reach the limit grip dramatically drops off.
Some organizations straight out prohibit Rcomp tires on lower run groups due to this.

I don't think Rcomps would destroy the brakes as you'll take turns faster, so less braking. Despite everyone's belief that stockish M3 brakes suck, my brother and I tracked the E46M back to back in fast rungroups at PCA and did not run into any issues. The DD rotors lasted **forever**, much longer than my friend's BBK.

PFC does not build DD rears. Then again, the front brake does almost all the work here so the rear oem rotors last a long time.
I've asked them multiple times to build them, so far no luck
Some people will run the PFC DD front and the racing brake 2 piece rotor for the rear. I would not run all 4 as the DD is a higher quality part, but to each their own.

For my E92 I have the Z54/45 kit (been on order for 3 months...) which is supposed to be the best. The pads certainly are insanely fat, it'll be one set of pads every two seasons.
That kit fits under the Arc8 et 25 just fine

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 03-17-2015 at 03:03 PM.
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      03-17-2015, 07:32 PM   #10
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Street tires are more fun to slide around on that track tires. R-comps disguise your mistakes.

However, if you must run R-comps, NT01's are the ticket for R-comp track tires in my opinion. No need for Hoosiers, BFG, etc. as you aren't racing. The NT01 is consistent to the cords and doesn't seem to be too affected by heat cycles.
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      03-18-2015, 03:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
You're welcome

I would not run R comps being new to the track, simply because you're learning the car's limits. You'll find the limits in an RS3 at much lower speeds than in a R1, so until your reflexes are fast enough that is my reco and the generally accepted one..............
Thank you, that's great info and makes sense to me, much appreciated. Sorry to hear your Z54 kit is backordered.

How will the OEM rotors handle the swap from PFC-08 to OEM pads and vice-versa? Should I consider switching to PFC Z-Rated pads for street/daily driving? caveats?
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      03-18-2015, 03:29 PM   #12
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08 pads are more aggressive than stock, but not as aggressive as say the 01 compound. I would expect the rotors to wear slightly faster than they would normally but not alarmingly so. I wouldn't worry about it too much. The stock rotors are pretty great.

For the street I would stick with OEM personally.
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      03-18-2015, 05:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 View Post
Thank you, that's great info and makes sense to me, much appreciated. Sorry to hear your Z54 kit is backordered.

How will the OEM rotors handle the swap from PFC-08 to OEM pads and vice-versa? Should I consider switching to PFC Z-Rated pads for street/daily driving? caveats?
No worries, I insisted on having them in Montecarlo Blue so it takes forever!

I used to run the pfc08 in summer, although it is a bit noisy. You could do the following if you want to swap pads:

Install track pads at home
Drive around normally, do not brake hard

In the first few laps at the track they will bed in
Enjoy the Track

Drive home on track pads
When rotors are shiny again reinstall street pads
Rebed street pads



Zrated is another option, but I really like oem pads for the street
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      03-18-2015, 06:12 PM   #14
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Great. SRF fluid and F+R set of PFC08 is ordered. On the hunt for a set of used ARC-8's now. I did notice the group buy for Apex but its 19" only if Im reading it correctly.
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      03-18-2015, 09:24 PM   #15
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I've been running the PFC 08 on with the stock calipers and rotors and been quite happy with them along with Motul RBF600 and stainless brake lines. Started out with my street Pilot Super Sports which were good, but moved last year to a 18x9.5 HRE R43 with 265/35/18 Michelin Pilot Sport Cups all the way around.

Progressed to the point where the stock brakes weren't cutting it any longer and just ordered a PFC Z54/Z45 combo from Bimmerworld. Can't wait to install them.
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      03-18-2015, 09:27 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 View Post
Great. SRF fluid and F+R set of PFC08 is ordered. On the hunt for a set of used ARC-8's now. I did notice the group buy for Apex but its 19" only if Im reading it correctly.
Did you already order the pfc 08? I forgot to tell you they've taken out the pfc 12 which is the new version of the 08. You may want to change your order although the 08 is excellent

I think the group buy of the 18 ec7 wheel is still open. This wheel looks different but more or less is the same as the arc8 and available in the same sizes

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 03-19-2015 at 07:56 AM.
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      03-19-2015, 06:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s65m3fan
I've been running the PFC 08 on with the stock calipers and rotors and been quite happy with them along with Motul RBF600 and stainless brake lines. Started out with my street Pilot Super Sports which were good, but moved last year to a 18x9.5 HRE R43 with 265/35/18 Michelin Pilot Sport Cups all the way around.

Progressed to the point where the stock brakes weren't cutting it any longer and just ordered a PFC Z54/Z45 combo from Bimmerworld. Can't wait to install them.
Not that I can pick them up anytime soon but out of curiosity..on bimmerworld, I see two PFC BBK kits. One has an orange picture and is labeled M3/1M BBK and I believe lists for about 3800. The other item is PFC Z54 and shows an image of a gray or black caliper, and lists for 6000. What's that?
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      03-19-2015, 06:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 View Post
Great. SRF fluid and F+R set of PFC08 is ordered. On the hunt for a set of used ARC-8's now. I did notice the group buy for Apex but its 19" only if Im reading it correctly.
Did you already order the pfc 08? I forgot to tell you they've taken out the pdc 12 which is the new version of the 08. You may want to change your order although the 08 is excellent

I think the group buy of the 18 ec7 wheel is still open. This wheel looks different but more or less is the same as the arc8 and available in the same sizes
Not yet, I got distracted at work and didn't complete the checkout on the pads. The fluid I did find on Amazon(free prime shipping). I'll get the 12 compound ordered today. Is it already for sale at bimmerworld?
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      03-19-2015, 07:52 AM   #19
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Not yet, I got distracted at work and didn't complete the checkout on the pads. The fluid I did find on Amazon(free prime shipping). I'll get the 12 compound ordered today. Is it already for sale at bimmerworld?
Yes, the 12 is already for sale. I just got my z54 pads in 12 compound
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      03-19-2015, 07:54 AM   #20
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Not that I can pick them up anytime soon but out of curiosity..on bimmerworld, I see two PFC BBK kits. One has an orange picture and is labeled M3/1M BBK and I believe lists for about 3800. The other item is PFC Z54 and shows an image of a gray or black caliper, and lists for 6000. What's that?
There are three options

One is the Z31 kit. This is a very nice kit but lacks the fat pads a heavy car needs.

The Z54/45 kit is the one for heavy cars. It's around 7k f+r

The front brake that's 7k all by itself is the ZR54. It's even more serious than the Z54 but I do not know the details of why there's such a massive price difference
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      05-16-2015, 09:42 AM   #21
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if im using adjustable camber plates for track; do i need to keep in mind toe?

its tough to schedule alignment work the day before those impromptu track events
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      05-16-2015, 09:08 PM   #22
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Here is an option that was mentioned on the forum:

Set camber around -1.8. Align it to 2mm toe in
At the track when adjusting all the way negative, toe changed to 4mm out which is what you want for track use*
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