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      10-30-2009, 04:50 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by M&M View Post
Footie, a couple of points if I may. I happen to own a quattro S car & an M3 so maybe my input might be valid.
I welcome your input as someone who should be able to see pass the heresy of the benefits of awd and the benefits of rwd as there is no right or wrong here, only opinions on which is better.

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Originally Posted by M&M View Post
1stly, Audi was banned for a couple of reasons. The 4WD system they used in BTCC was not homologated for use as it was not found in the production cars. It was a totally different system.

But I cannot lie, over the course of a full race distance the quattro was superior. It took care of the tyres better & the trick quattro system did help under braking as well with some nifty features that weren't in the production cars.

But if you followed the series, you will see that the other teams found ways to counter & towards the end of the 2nd season the 2WD cars were winning again. Had the quattro's not been banned I doubt they would have won again. A good race team can take any car & make it fast. 4WD has inherent weaknesses & a race team will make use of it's strengths & set the car up so as not to exhibit an weakness. Like understeer can be ironed out with the right suspension settings. But a road car will still have those weaknesses. The audi team had the right resources, & good drivers, a good setup & it did well. It's not all about quattro.
I can't fully recall what was different, I think at the time production quattro cars (mainly) had open diffs front and rear where as the race car had LSD on both axles. The only production Quattro with such a setup I think was the 200 but probably you could confirm if this is indeed correct. I do recall that in year two they gave the quattro cars a serious weight penalty to counter their advantage which had an effect on the wear of the tyres.

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Next point is about the R8 beating the 2WD Lambo or whatever. Did it not maybe occur to you that the R8 maybe handles better? And that's why it's faster?

Do you believe handling is all about traction? And drivetrain layout? Have you driven on a circuit. Handling is a black art that has many facets to it & traction is only a small part of it. Weight, weight distribution, suspension geometry, centre of gravity, polar moment of inertia, suspension setup, camber castor, ride height, etc Dam that's just out the top of my head, I'm sure I've missed plenty other factors.
Surely when so many members of the group believe that the R8 is simply a Gallardo and it was the only reason Audi could get a decent supercar was by borrowing other technology such a statement of yours gives Audi more credit than it's due.

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All 4WD does is distribute the tractive load to 4 wheels instead of 2. That helps in some instances when the rears are burdened with too much load to sustain both tractive & cornering forces. But that's a few % of a lap. The rest of the lap, it makes no difference and may be a hindrance. Remember it works both ways. A RWD doesn't send power to the front, so 100% of the frint tyres' grip is available for cornering. And when you enter a corner the front is all important.
That is why I say from track to track the advantage will shift from AWD back to RWD and vice verse.

There is one simple fact that can't be denied and that is the difference in the dry between the two is small but the difference when it's wet is huge. This has been my point from the start, if you live in a sunshine state/country then picking AWD (no matter of brand) is a choice but not a necessity, but if you live where the weather either rains 70% of the time and snows every year then not picking AWD is disadvantage in my opinion but it's still up to the individual and I respect that as everyone should.

Hack I chose against another quattro this time round after the M3 simply because I couldn't justify the extra expense that the S4 would have needed in options to match the Jag and ultimately how that would have affected the time of resale.
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      10-30-2009, 10:52 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M View Post
Footie, a couple of points if I may. I happen to own a quattro S car & an M3 so maybe my input might be valid.

1stly, Audi was banned for a couple of reasons. The 4WD system they used in BTCC was not homologated for use as it was not found in the production cars. It was a totally different system.

But I cannot lie, over the course of a full race distance the quattro was superior. It took care of the tyres better & the trick quattro system did help under braking as well with some nifty features that weren't in the production cars.

But if you followed the series, you will see that the other teams found ways to counter & towards the end of the 2nd season the 2WD cars were winning again. Had the quattro's not been banned I doubt they would have won again. A good race team can take any car & make it fast. 4WD has inherent weaknesses & a race team will make use of it's strengths & set the car up so as not to exhibit an weakness. Like understeer can be ironed out with the right suspension settings. But a road car will still have those weaknesses. The audi team had the right resources, & good drivers, a good setup & it did well. It's not all about quattro.

Next point is about the R8 beating the 2WD Lambo or whatever. Did it not maybe occur to you that the R8 maybe handles better? And that's why it's faster?
Do you believe handling is all about traction? And drivetrain layout? Have you driven on a circuit. Handling is a black art that has many facets to it & traction is only a small part of it. Weight, weight distribution, suspension geometry, centre of gravity, polar moment of inertia, suspension setup, camber castor, ride height, etc Dam that's just out the top of my head, I'm sure I've missed plenty other factors.

All 4WD does is distribute the tractive load to 4 wheels instead of 2. That helps in some instances when the rears are burdened with too much load to sustain both tractive & cornering forces. But that's a few % of a lap. The rest of the lap, it makes no difference and may be a hindrance. Remember it works both ways. A RWD doesn't send power to the front, so 100% of the frint tyres' grip is available for cornering. And when you enter a corner the front is all important.
Actually the Stig beat the Lambo gallardo with the M3 as well . Lambo is just not setup for the track as well as the M3(balance , handling etc...).
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