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      10-18-2009, 03:36 AM   #1
TurboStar
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M3 or S4?

Hello all,

I am new here and I am glad to join this forum. This is my first post and i look forward to being frequently around here. Currenty i own 2 VW's and thanks to my pocket - it has been getting fatter, I am ready to upgrade .
The question is: S4 or M3??? Stock I am sold on the M3 for sure but how about modded S4?
Honestly speaking I love the M3 way more but on the other side the potential to mod the S4 will be by day and night in terms of $$$ and parts. I know Audi's are at least twice as cheap to mod and upgrade. I am sure that by summer time a chip + exhaust + CAI = ~450HP's at around $2K for the S4 and imagine upgrading the charger!!! Because of not so much of a BMW tuning knowledge, how much money I would need to up my M3 to at least 600WHP? Still i am on 70% for buying an M3 but i just need more feedback.
Now of course some of you would ask why would i want to tune it when the M3 has enough power already but stock just doesnt cut it for me ( i always like to surprise people) and some may say I should have enough money to tune it if i am able to buy a $45-50K car but lets leave those elaborations aside for now. Thanks for your honest feedback.

Last edited by TurboStar; 10-18-2009 at 03:37 AM. Reason: the title
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      10-18-2009, 04:58 AM   #2
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Welcome to m3post. I moved your thread to the "M3 vs" section where are also several more threads on the new S4 (please search). However, I still hope for one civil M3 vs S4 thread and let this one open...


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      10-18-2009, 05:57 AM   #3
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Get the S4.
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      10-18-2009, 06:00 AM   #4
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You're going to need at least $15K to tune the M3 to 600 whp. The only way you're getting anywhere near that level of power is to buy a supercharger kit. A stroker kit will also yield big gains, but not 600 whp. So, if that's what you're looking for, you should be looking at cars other than the M3, or S4 for that matter. Extracting an extra 30-40 whp from the M3 will require software and a full exhaust, which will run you a good $3-4K, at which point it will surely run as fast or faster than an S4 tuned to 450 hp.

Having owned a B7 S4, I'm intrigued by the B8 -- it seems to be a much better car in almost every way based on the glowing reviews. Even though I have not driven the new S4, I would bet the M3 is still the better 'driver's' car, providing greater feedback, better and more nimble dry handling and a more involving drive. The S4 will probably be a more relaxed daily driver with easier power delivery (better low end torque), and you already know the benefits of Quattro. The S4's interior, of course, is top-notch (not that the M3's interior is lacking, especially with extended leather). Also, I wouldn't bank on the S4 being cheap to modify beyond those ~435 crank hp tunes that have recently been done--if it were turbocharged rather than supercharged, that might be a different story.

I think the two cars are significantly different (both in good ways) and the choice should be clear to you, based on your priorities, after driving them both.
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      10-18-2009, 08:02 AM   #5
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got a question

what would you possibly do with 600 HP?

oh i drove a B8 S4 when i looked at audi in march, needless to say after we got a few miles out from dealer and it was my turn to drive, i drove straight back and said NEXT
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      10-18-2009, 09:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblaze View Post
got a question

what would you possibly do with 600 HP?

oh i drove a B8 S4 when i looked at audi in march, needless to say after we got a few miles out from dealer and it was my turn to drive, i drove straight back and said NEXT
So every review to date has been wrong and your opinion is the correct one.......right.

No the S4 isn't as entertaining as the M3 but then very few awd cars are and I mean very few. But that said the S4 gets a lot closer than most think and with very little money it will perform everybit as well.
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      10-18-2009, 09:15 AM   #7
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please rediculous question M3 in different universe. M3 majors S4 minors
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      10-18-2009, 09:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
So every review to date has been wrong and your opinion is the correct one.......right.

No the S4 isn't as entertaining as the M3 but then very few awd cars are and I mean very few. But that said the S4 gets a lot closer than most think and with very little money it will perform everybit as well.
i didnt declare in stone my opinion as final and the only one, i just gave my expirence from what little i had, i was a RS4 fan testing a S4, impossible to make a personal connection

now if he compared the RS4 to the M3 it would be a much easier thing to do.
or compare the S4 to the 335i

also i dont read reviews as 90 percent of then are biased or only matter at the specific testing area and not down the road somewhere else

but the black S4 with maroon interrior is dam sexy!!
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      10-18-2009, 09:58 AM   #9
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what about a 335i

its a turbo, so mod away.
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      10-18-2009, 11:19 AM   #10
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I'm not a fan of the new look for the S4. I liked the previous model before. It had a beefier mean stance/look especially when you do a drop to it. Audi's design aside from the RS5 and R8 isn't doing much for me lately. Performance wise, the S4 has it's merits but so does the 335xi.
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      10-18-2009, 11:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboStar View Post
Hello all,

I am new here and I am glad to join this forum. This is my first post and i look forward to being frequently around here. Currenty i own 2 VW's and thanks to my pocket - it has been getting fatter, I am ready to upgrade .
The question is: S4 or M3??? Stock I am sold on the M3 for sure but how about modded S4?
Honestly speaking I love the M3 way more but on the other side the potential to mod the S4 will be by day and night in terms of $$$ and parts. I know Audi's are at least twice as cheap to mod and upgrade. I am sure that by summer time a chip + exhaust + CAI = ~450HP's at around $2K for the S4 and imagine upgrading the charger!!! Because of not so much of a BMW tuning knowledge, how much money I would need to up my M3 to at least 600WHP? Still i am on 70% for buying an M3 but i just need more feedback.
Now of course some of you would ask why would i want to tune it when the M3 has enough power already but stock just doesnt cut it for me ( i always like to surprise people) and some may say I should have enough money to tune it if i am able to buy a $45-50K car but lets leave those elaborations aside for now. Thanks for your honest feedback.
Stock for stock, the M3 is clearly a more sinewy drive, back-road banditry being a clear BMW specialty. In that venue, the S4 will have you grinning, while the M3 will have you chuckling, and possibly laughing out loud from time to time.

Are back roads what you mostly do? If so, give more weight to the M3 choice. If not, consider the everyday usability of the S4, plus its ability to be sneaky fast, since you won't have to wind it up to high E over C to get it to go really well.

Advantage M3, although it's not a runaway.

Do you do track days? If so, even more advantage to the M3. The S4 will be willing, while the M3 will be eager.

Do you do a fair amount of driving in inclement weather? If so, some of that M3 advantage disappears over to the S4 plus column.

All in all, though, unless a lot of snow and ice driving is part of your scenario, the M3 will still be an overall "better" ride.

Modified? S4 all the way. Stock, the M3 is traction-limited in first gear (just as the E46 was), and you'll need to deliver a ton more torque to get that extra power, since you can't wind it up much more than stock without having engine parts simultaneously visiting more than one zip code. Result? First gear (and probably second) will be essentially useless, because you won't be able to get the power down. Even with, say, DOT-legal race sneakers, you still won't hook up unless you've warmed the hell out of them first, which is inconvenient, at best.

As an aside, limited traction means the driveline will last longer under duress, which is a plus, even though it feels like a serious minus at the time.

The Audi will take 600 WHP right down the road with no fuss or bother, but remember when you're doing those red-line-and-pop-the-clutch banzai launches, you're eventually going to have driveline parts simultaneously visiting more than one zip code. At a guess, you'll preserve the driveline if you limit your use of full throttle in first gear, and go for it from second gear on up.

Bruce

Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 10-18-2009 at 12:06 PM. Reason: spelling/grammar
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      10-18-2009, 12:14 PM   #12
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It's another pointless thread, if you need to modify then awd is the most practical option plus the most usable as Bruce already said but why so much power??????
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      10-18-2009, 12:52 PM   #13
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Buy the S4. The M3 can't handle 600 hp with street tires; M cars have never been a good base for heavy modding. Tuners will eventually tap into the S4's (Magna sourced) trick differential, which is fully programmable.
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      10-18-2009, 01:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboStar View Post
... at least 600WHP? ... the M3 has enough power already but stock just doesnt cut it for me ( i always like to surprise people) and some may say ...


Some say he can throttle bleep with his balls and some say his blood is a mix of 10w60 and ketchup. All we know is he is called "The Stig".

Oh, S4 of course.
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      10-18-2009, 01:34 PM   #15
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I still prefer the M3.

I strongly feel that the M3's character is naturally much more athletic, compared to what I've read and seen about the new S4.
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      10-18-2009, 02:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboStar View Post
Hello all,



I am new here and I am glad to join this forum. This is my first post and i look forward to being frequently around here. Currenty i own 2 VW's and thanks to my pocket - it has been getting fatter, I am ready to upgrade .

The question is: S4 or M3??? Stock I am sold on the M3 for sure but how about modded S4?

Honestly speaking I love the M3 way more but on the other side the potential to mod the S4 will be by day and night in terms of $$$ and parts. I know Audi's are at least twice as cheap to mod and upgrade. I am sure that by summer time a chip + exhaust + CAI = ~450HP's at around $2K for the S4 and imagine upgrading the charger!!! Because of not so much of a BMW tuning knowledge, how much money I would need to up my M3 to at least 600WHP? Still i am on 70% for buying an M3 but i just need more feedback.

Now of course some of you would ask why would i want to tune it when the M3 has enough power already but stock just doesnt cut it for me ( i always like to surprise people) and some may say I should have enough money to tune it if i am able to buy a $45-50K car but lets leave those elaborations aside for now. Thanks for your honest feedback.
It sounds like you need to look in to 335XI vs S4 if you into modding. I can't wait to get rid of my N54 coupe because of the mod bug is constantly chasing me and get an E90 M3 DCT.
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      10-18-2009, 02:34 PM   #17
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i would personally get the S5 over the S4 but to ur question..cant go wrong with either, guess u have to drive both and see what your liking more. audis arent that popular around where i live so when i see those new ones with leds in my rearview
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      10-18-2009, 04:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG View Post
It sounds like you need to look in to 335XI vs S4 if you into modding...
The 335 is not a good platform to begin such a venture. The S4 is far better developed as a performance platform, so you won't have to tend to the basics with the Audi.
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      10-18-2009, 05:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
It's another pointless thread, if you need to modify then awd is the most practical option plus the most usable as Bruce already said but why so much power??????
When too much is barely enough.

As mentioned in the past, I've driven my son's 600 HP GTO (aka Holden Monaro), and it's a giggle. In cool weather with clean asphalt and only the driver aboard, 3rd gear is a little iffy, traction-wise.
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      10-18-2009, 07:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
When too much is barely enough.
As mentioned in the past, I've driven my son's 600 HP GTO (aka Holden Monaro), and it's a giggle. In cool weather with clean asphalt and only the driver aboard, 3rd gear is a little iffy, traction-wise.
This should be a clue for those discussing the next M3 as well: more power is far less important than greater traction.
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      10-18-2009, 08:49 PM   #21
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I'm not sure why 450hp or 600hp is a focal point at all. You certainly won't be using that sort of power on the street and on a track you'll have a hard time getting all that power to the ground unless you do some significant chassis work...
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      10-19-2009, 06:42 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by murellus View Post
I'm not sure why 450hp or 600hp is a focal point at all. You certainly won't be using that sort of power on the street and on a track you'll have a hard time getting all that power to the ground unless you do some significant chassis work...
No significant chassis work would be required with AWD. If your comments were addressed the the M3 then I could understand how 600hp would be more than a handful, it could cope but you would have to be so ginger with the throttle most of the time it would make you question the expense of all the modifications in the first place.
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