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      11-09-2009, 06:06 PM   #67
TLud
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
Well, the m3 is BMWs best engine, the cayman S is not Porsche's best, but it doesnt need to be. The chasis and suspension on the Cayman S are superior to that of the M3's, not to mention it weighs about 600 lbs less. If the Cayman S got even the 997S motor, it would be faster and better than most everything out there, especially equipped with PDK. Porsche inhibits it, we all know that, but its still a very good, strong, reliable motor. It still likes to rev, and is fast through the tach. I still think its a great motor with the vario cam and vario cam plus and the two stage intake manifold. And the new 320 hp motor is that much better. You do know the Cayman S with PDK matches the 1/4 of the m3 6mt right?
No doubt the Cayman S can do more with less because it is a lighter and more nimble car. However, the CS still felt underpowered and uninspired to me because quite simply Porsche has intentionally made it so. The new CS is better in this regard, but still doesn't have the top end kick that the M3 does. And of course, I agree with you that the Cayman S would be a world beater with the 997.1 or .2 S motor, but we're comparing actual, not hypothetical, cars here. Lastly, the reason for the improved acceleration times of the new Cayman S is the PDK, not the relatively modest increase in power output.
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      11-10-2009, 01:44 AM   #68
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shift@red - In my response (post 66), I really felt the biggest difference between the Cayman S and M3 was handling. They both have great engines, but I was spoiled because I am coming from a 335i Jb3 1.3 Map 5.

From a dig, the 2009 Cayman S felt very quick. I think where it would fall a little behind my tuned 335i is from a 40mph to 110mph roll.

I say spoiled earlier because you can add approximately 70 horsepower to the 335i for about $600!!!

The more I learn about the Cayman S is that it isn't just about straight line acceleration, but the excitement that comes from driving a fantastic overall package. In that regard, the M3 certainly fits that mold too.

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      11-10-2009, 12:40 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
You are 100% spot on. Ive owned 335i's as well, and the power potential from that engine is great. The gains you get from a simple flash are exponentially greater than those you will get on a small N/A engine.
The Cayman S and m3 are more of momentum cars, for sure. Neither are about straight line speed, although most M3 owners will tought the straight line ability of the m3 until it gets out run by another car, then it becomes the 'twisties' arguement. Either way, the excitement you get from the Cayman S is so good it makes up for in the steering, suspension, balances, grip that it may not necessarily have in pure straight line force, even though a 12.6@110 with PDK is NO slouch by any means. Even on the older gen cayman S i saw guys running low 13s stock 107 mph.
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      11-10-2009, 08:38 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLud View Post
No doubt the Cayman S can do more with less because it is a lighter and more nimble car. However, the CS still felt underpowered and uninspired to me because quite simply Porsche has intentionally made it so. The new CS is better in this regard, but still doesn't have the top end kick that the M3 does. And of course, I agree with you that the Cayman S would be a world beater with the 997.1 or .2 S motor, but we're comparing actual, not hypothetical, cars here. Lastly, the reason for the improved acceleration times of the new Cayman S is the PDK, not the relatively modest increase in power output.
100% accurate. I had an '06 CaymanS and it is without a doubt the best handling car I have ever driven. However, it is extremely cramped for anybody bigger than a horse jockey. I am 6'1" and 195 lbs and I needed a shoehorn to get in and out of it. The HP/TQ was the big turnoff for me. No way in hell is that car as good as an E92M3 in terms of functionality, power, interior appointments, etc. It is a better handling car with better connection from road to steering and that's where the improvements over the E92 ends. The CaymanS would make a nice track car. It, in no way shape or form, is "Daily Driveable"
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      11-13-2009, 12:33 AM   #71
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alms21 - You are correct as far as the '06 Cayman S goes but the 2009/2010 Cayman S PDK Sport Chrono Plus is a different animal altogether.

I am 6' 3" 215 lbs and if I was a quarter inch taller I would not have fit in the Cayman! Yes, I needed a shoehorn! But you sure feel connected to the road once you get in.

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      11-13-2009, 08:49 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David 12 View Post
alms21 - You are correct as far as the '06 Cayman S goes but the 2009/2010 Cayman S PDK Sport Chrono Plus is a different animal altogether.

I am 6' 3" 215 lbs and if I was a quarter inch taller I would not have fit in the Cayman! Yes, I needed a shoehorn! But you sure feel connected to the road once you get in.

Dave
One thing I always wonder about, but no one else seems to ask: What happens if you get into a bad accident?

If it's that hard getting INTO the car, how would the first responders get you OUT of the car after you get T-boned by a Yukon running a red light, or have a close encounter with a tree on an icy curve? I can't help but think the guys running the Jaws of Life would wish you were in a roomier vehicle.
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      11-13-2009, 12:04 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quackbury View Post
One thing I always wonder about, but no one else seems to ask: What happens if you get into a bad accident?

If it's that hard getting INTO the car, how would the first responders get you OUT of the car after you get T-boned by a Yukon running a red light, or have a close encounter with a tree on an icy curve? I can't help but think the guys running the Jaws of Life would wish you were in a roomier vehicle.
Dude... you have the right screenname! You are DEFINITELY A QUACK!!!

I mean... seriously... we drive sports cars... thinking about how we're going to be extracted by the Jaws of Life??? I mean... what if he's in his roomy Yukon... and gets Driven over by an 18 Wheeler.. I can't help but to think the guys running the Jaws of Life would wish he was in a roomier vehicle???

Wow... You know how to take ALL the FUN out of enjoying non practical sports cars, and sedans. And to add further insult to injury... you drive a convertible?? What if you get in a roll over accident?? With the top down? I'll bet they wish your top would have been up!

Dave
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      11-13-2009, 04:43 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLud View Post
I'm probably one of the bigger Cayman S proponents on this forum, but I think you overstated your case by saying that the Cayman S is a "flat out better car to drive in every way." I agree that the suspension, balance, handling and feedback are superior to the M3, but the Cayman S falls short in the engine department in my book. Essentially, it felt like the M3 down low, but without the upper end fireworks of the M3.
The key to the Cayman S is it's low weight, low center of gravity, and mid-engine design. The key to M3 is it's engine. Too bad it is straddled with complicated electronics and excessive weight. Same goes for the CTS-V
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      11-15-2009, 04:23 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
+1...i dont care how good an engine is, if the rest of the car is boring, uninspired and lacking in character, its not going to excite me.
Id much rather have a perfected chasis/suspension/steering/clutch/gearbox/brakes than just an engine.
Ill take a chasis with an engine rather than an engine with a chasis.
Porsches are still over-priced, even more than BMWs. The CTS-V is a bargain by comparison.
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      11-15-2009, 06:00 PM   #76
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Ruff - Not if you can find a great deal on a 2009. Heck, I got a better deal on my Cayman S than BMW was giving me on a bare bones 2010 M3 DCT coupe!

I wish I could have driven the CTs-V though - But I still think the two are distinct enough to not be cross-shopped.

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      11-15-2009, 10:15 PM   #77
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i didn't read through all the posts just yours so here is my op

seems like if you can get 1,500 more then you paid for it and that good a deal on the V and you need it for your family then you answered your own question. should you decide down the road you don't like it then you could always get rid of it and get another M

why not get the 4 door M3 though??

good luck in what you decide, the V is a nice car i rode in a couple, i would get the 6 speed though over the auto if i got a V

H

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmos77 View Post
Looking for some hellp here please. I currently have an 08 Coupe with a 6 speed and am considering trading it in for an automatic CTS-V ( family reasond ) Bottom line is i have a crazy good deal on the table for the V ($13k off sticker) and they are even offering more than $1500 for my trade than I paid for it over 6 months ago. Am I crazy? I drove the V and it is a different experience but a true beast in its own right. Not sure I want to give up the 8400 redline and the sweet music the M's engine makes. I really can use the 4 door and automatic so the rest of the family can use the car but I'm really struggling with thsi one. Any thoughts would be appreciated and thank you in advance.
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      11-16-2009, 10:21 AM   #78
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Quote:
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Ruff - Not if you can find a great deal on a 2009. Heck, I got a better deal on my Cayman S than BMW was giving me on a bare bones 2010 M3 DCT coupe!

I wish I could have driven the CTs-V though - But I still think the two are distinct enough to not be cross-shopped.

Dave
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294268
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