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      11-14-2013, 05:49 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
You have the best wear #s of any analysis sofar for a car using TWS. Zero lead and 1-2ppm of copper is excellent!

The only person with more miles and 0 lead is using Redline oil.

Have you always used TWS? What part of the country do you live in? What warmup procedure do you use? Ever tracked your car? How often does your car see redline?

My numbers were the same and I have about 50k on the clock. Don't think I posted it to this thread:



OIL Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60
MILES IN USE 5,012
MILES 48,366
SAMPLE TAKEN 8/21/13

ALUMINUM 3
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 5
COPPER 3
LEAD 0
TIN 3
MOLYBDENUM 49
NICKEL 0
MANGANESE 1
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 11
POTASSIUM 0
BORON 46
SILICON 3
SODIUM 3
CALCIUM 2534
MAGNESIUM 62
PHOSPHORUS 876
ZINC 962
BARIUM 0

SUS VIS 210F 88.4
cSt @ 212F 17.60
FLASHPOINT F 385
FUEL <0.5
ANTIFREEZE 0.0
WATER 0.0
INSOLUBLES 0.2


TBN 3.1
TAN 3.6
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      11-14-2013, 06:49 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
My numbers were the same and I have about 50k on the clock. Don't think I posted it to this thread:



OIL Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10w60
MILES IN USE 5,012
MILES 48,366
SAMPLE TAKEN 8/21/13

ALUMINUM 3
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 5
COPPER 3
LEAD 0
TIN 3
MOLYBDENUM 49
NICKEL 0
MANGANESE 1
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 11
POTASSIUM 0
BORON 46
SILICON 3
SODIUM 3
CALCIUM 2534
MAGNESIUM 62
PHOSPHORUS 876
ZINC 962
BARIUM 0

SUS VIS 210F 88.4
cSt @ 212F 17.60
FLASHPOINT F 385
FUEL <0.5
ANTIFREEZE 0.0
WATER 0.0
INSOLUBLES 0.2


TBN 3.1
TAN 3.6
Good numbers, and another TWS with moly lower than I've seen in previous.
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      11-14-2013, 08:01 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
Good numbers, and another TWS with moly lower than I've seen in previous.
Eh, not really. There will be some minor variation from batch to batch. Below is a VOA, and from what I saw in other VOAs, it's always <200:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2990864
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      11-15-2013, 03:56 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
You have the best wear #s of any analysis sofar for a car using TWS. Zero lead and 1-2ppm of copper is excellent!

The only person with more miles and 0 lead is using Redline oil.

Have you always used TWS? What part of the country do you live in? What warmup procedure do you use? Ever tracked your car? How often does your car see redline?
Thanks. I am in the bay area on west coast. Always TWS on 91 octane but will switch to M1 0-40 on the next change. The MOLYBDENUM and Titanium went up after Castrol switched to the EDGE version. Car is 95%+ freeway driven, daily driver. Always tried to stay below 3k rpm (never exceeded 3.5k) before oil reaches around 210, not based on the moving redline. Never tracked, redlined here and there. Oil change at 7500 miles interval as shown from the oil analysis.

A side thing that I have noticed during oil change. Not sure if it's relevant or maybe everyone know this already. On the first 2 oil changes, I fill up all 9L of oil in the engine while leaving the oil filter canister dry. The first start after that the car is very rough for a good 5-10 seconds. On later oil change, I put the oil filter element in and fill that canister (slowly) with about 2 liters of oil first so the filter element is soaked and there is oil in there. No more rough starts and rattling sound if I do it this way.

Last edited by e92zero; 11-15-2013 at 04:01 AM.
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      11-15-2013, 09:02 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Eh, not really. There will be some minor variation from batch to batch. Below is a VOA, and from what I saw in other VOAs, it's always <200:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2990864
I've been seeing triple digit levels and some double digit levels, maybe it's sacrificial like the zinc.
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      11-15-2013, 10:18 AM   #160
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Any insight would be great here guys. Thanks. Also after this oil change my valve cover gaskets are having to be replaced if that helps at all.



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Last edited by warp10; 02-06-2014 at 11:21 PM.
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      11-15-2013, 11:03 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warp10 View Post
Any insight would be great here guys. Thanks. Also after this oil change my valve cover gaskets are having to be replaced if that helps at all.



Adam
I think you are OK. Lead is perfect, Copper is a tad above average. I'd keep the oil interval on the shorter side (especially since you track) and get another reading and see how it looks then.
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      11-15-2013, 11:09 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Eh, not really. There will be some minor variation from batch to batch. Below is a VOA, and from what I saw in other VOAs, it's always <200:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2990864
I have over 40 TWS samples:

6 of them have >200ppm of moly, >40ppm of Titanium, >3000ppm of Cal, <300 Mag
18 have 100-200ppm of moly, 23-42ppm Ti, >2000ppm Cal, <300 Mag
20 have less than 10ppm of moly, 0ppm Ti, <2000ppm Cal, >550 Mag

I'm trying to figure out which ones are the old TWS and which ones are the new Edge Pro TWS

Quote:
Originally Posted by e92zero View Post
Thanks. I am in the bay area on west coast. Always TWS on 91 octane but will switch to M1 0-40 on the next change. The MOLYBDENUM and Titanium went up after Castrol switched to the EDGE version. Car is 95%+ freeway driven, daily driver. Always tried to stay below 3k rpm (never exceeded 3.5k) before oil reaches around 210, not based on the moving redline. Never tracked, redlined here and there. Oil change at 7500 miles interval as shown from the oil analysis.

A side thing that I have noticed during oil change. Not sure if it's relevant or maybe everyone know this already. On the first 2 oil changes, I fill up all 9L of oil in the engine while leaving the oil filter canister dry. The first start after that the car is very rough for a good 5-10 seconds. On later oil change, I put the oil filter element in and fill that canister (slowly) with about 2 liters of oil first so the filter element is soaked and there is oil in there. No more rough starts and rattling sound if I do it this way.
Do you know if the last 2 changes were with TWS or EDGE Professional TWS?

Thanks for the details on your driving habits, they seem to be taking care of the motor very well. I tend to pour oil into the filter housing too. There should be a check-valve in there so adding oil here should prevent a brief oil starvation/rough running when you fire the motor up after an oil change.
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      11-15-2013, 11:10 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I think you are OK. Lead is perfect, Copper is a tad above average. I'd keep the oil interval on the shorter side (especially since you track) and get another reading and see how it looks then.
Lead is 0 because there is no lead on the bearings. Its a 2011 which had the revised bearings without lead to conform with EU laws.
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      11-15-2013, 11:16 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W///
Quote:
Originally Posted by warp10 View Post
Any insight would be great here guys. Thanks. Also after this oil change my valve cover gaskets are having to be replaced if that helps at all.



Adam
I think you are OK. Lead is perfect, Copper is a tad above average. I'd keep the oil interval on the shorter side (especially since you track) and get another reading and see how it looks then.
Thanks for the insights. And yes going to shorten the interval of changes.
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      11-15-2013, 11:46 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italyix View Post
Lead is 0 because there is no lead on the bearings. Its a 2011 which had the revised bearings without lead to conform with EU laws.
FWIW:

Aussie M3 has a '11 with 2ppm of lead.
Russ '11 - 28ppm of lead
And there's a 2012 with 3ppm of lead.
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      11-15-2013, 01:58 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billj747 View Post
I have over 40 TWS samples:

6 of them have >200ppm of moly, >40ppm of Titanium, >3000ppm of Cal, <300 Mag
18 have 100-200ppm of moly, 23-42ppm Ti, >2000ppm Cal, <300 Mag
20 have less than 10ppm of moly, 0ppm Ti, <2000ppm Cal, >550 Mag

I'm trying to figure out which ones are the old TWS and which ones are the new Edge Pro TWS


Do you know if the last 2 changes were with TWS or EDGE Professional TWS?

Thanks for the details on your driving habits, they seem to be taking care of the motor very well. I tend to pour oil into the filter housing too. There should be a check-valve in there so adding oil here should prevent a brief oil starvation/rough running when you fire the motor up after an oil change.

Np. Just want to report back to the community as I gained a lot a lot of knowledge here. The least I can do to help. The last few changes since 37,659 were all EDGE. Where the increase of Moly and Ti showed up on the analysis from the 44,978 report on.
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      11-15-2013, 02:04 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italyix View Post
Lead is 0 because there is no lead on the bearings. Its a 2011 which had the revised bearings without lead to conform with EU laws.
Wow, I didn't know it was for the environment.
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      11-15-2013, 02:08 PM   #168
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I will dig up the older oil analysis report later and report back. I might indeed have the newer non-lead bearings. I remember I have some level of TIN and never really have any lead in my reports.
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      11-17-2013, 04:31 PM   #169
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I'm really happy with my results having just bought the car:

2009 E90 M3 DCT
51,219 miles
Texas Car (now in NC)
TWS its whole life - I'm not sure which TWS this is due to the very low levels of Moly, Tin, Calcium, Phos & Zinc



From my records of ~50 UOAs, my car has the least amount of lead for >50K miles that's not a 2011. Dylan's 09 has 20K more on the clock and only 1ppm more lead so I hope my has continued health.

Here's the updated plots of Lead and Copper (note the low Lead values >50K are 2011 cars:

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      12-02-2013, 05:03 PM   #170
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Received my blackstone analysis today and the results look good. Not the greatest filtration, but that could be how the filter was sitting in the housing. FYI, this car sees all extremes - >270F temps at the track and -20F cold starts in winter. The only precautions I take are that I rarely start the car unless I'll be warming it up fully, I don't idle I just start and drive away, and throttle always <50% and <4000 RPM until the redline starts moving up.

Edit for add'l information - still on original software flash.


Last edited by apecush; 12-02-2013 at 10:21 PM.
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      12-02-2013, 07:16 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apecush View Post
Received my blackstone analysis today and the results look good. Not the greatest filtration, but that could be how the filter was sitting in the housing. FYI, this car sees all extremes - >270F temps at the track and -20F cold starts in winter. The only precautions I take are that I rarely start the car unless I'll be warming it up fully, I don't idle I just start and drive away, and throttle always <50% and <4000 RPM until the redline starts moving up.

The long change interval doesn't seem to be a problem, but I suggest getting TBN + TAN next time. Silicon is probably just from an air filter not properly seated in the airbox or something stupid. I suggest a visual inspection to confirm.
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      12-06-2013, 09:20 AM   #172
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      12-06-2013, 09:27 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYZ View Post
Here's mine,
Looks good, but as I've suggested to others, pay for TBN & TAN on the next one to see if the oil is becoming too acidic.
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      12-09-2013, 10:44 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
The long change interval doesn't seem to be a problem, but I suggest getting TBN + TAN next time. Silicon is probably just from an air filter not properly seated in the airbox or something stupid. I suggest a visual inspection to confirm.
that's 12000 km, not miles, so half the prescribed interval.
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      12-12-2013, 07:11 PM   #175
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Questions:

How fresh does the oil sample need to be?

and

How important is it to be middle of the pour out, not the beginning or end

Thanks guys
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      12-12-2013, 08:26 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exclusivs View Post
Questions:

How fresh does the oil sample need to be?

and

How important is it to be middle of the pour out, not the beginning or end

Thanks guys
Ideally you should sample the oil directly as it drains from the block mid stream. This gives the best sense as to the particulates that are in the oil and circulating. If you were to sample the oil after it is in the collection pan, you might get a slightly skewed sample as things settle.
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