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      06-27-2014, 05:47 PM   #309
Petros
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Here is my second one. Had this oil since January and through a nasty freezing cold. I'm still bothered by the high iron. Anyone know what it means? Blackstone keeps saying it's no big deal.
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      06-28-2014, 04:39 AM   #310
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Wear of the camshaft lobes?...its the point of highest load on the oil film.
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      06-28-2014, 11:55 AM   #311
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Iron was elevated but you ran the oil longer. I wouldn't worry. Looks like 7-10k is a good interval, with a slight preference towards 7k (your consumption seemed to go up with the longer run).

Pay for TAN and TBN next time. TBN by itself doesn't tell you much.
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      06-29-2014, 12:32 PM   #312
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Here is a sample that was just taken on my 2013 M3. The car had 13,482 miles on it when the sample was taken. I have an ESS VT2 625 kit on the car. The blower was installed at 1,200 miles. Break in procedure was followed and oil was changed at 1,100 miles. Oil was changed again at 6,500 miles and again currently at 13,482. This is the first sample that I have taken of the car's oil though.

Just wanted to see what you guys think.
Iron, copper, and molybdenum seemed high. However, correct me if im wrong but being that my car is a 13' this shouldnt be too alarming. I should be more concerned with aluminum, tin, and silicon? Another thing that seemed interesting was aluminum, tin, and molybdenum were all at or below universal averages. Also lead was 0 which I thought was interesting and I guess a good thing.

Just some background info on the car. All oil changes were done with oem 10-60 oil. 1/2 quart was added every 2,000ish miles roughly depending on driving style. The car is daily driven and has seen temperatures as low as single digits and as high as triple digits. I put about 70 miles of highway driving per day on the car.

Look forward to hearing any and all input.
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      06-29-2014, 02:22 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dillon733 View Post
Here is a sample that was just taken on my 2013 M3. The car had 13,482 miles on it when the sample was taken. I have an ESS VT2 625 kit on the car. The blower was installed at 1,200 miles. Break in procedure was followed and oil was changed at 1,100 miles. Oil was changed again at 6,500 miles and again currently at 13,482. This is the first sample that I have taken of the car's oil though.

Just wanted to see what you guys think.
Iron, copper, and molybdenum seemed high. However, correct me if im wrong but being that my car is a 13' this shouldnt be too alarming. I should be more concerned with aluminum, tin, and silicon? Another thing that seemed interesting was aluminum, tin, and molybdenum were all at or below universal averages. Also lead was 0 which I thought was interesting and I guess a good thing.

Just some background info on the car. All oil changes were done with oem 10-60 oil. 1/2 quart was added every 2,000ish miles roughly depending on driving style. The car is daily driven and has seen temperatures as low as single digits and as high as triple digits. I put about 70 miles of highway driving per day on the car.

Look forward to hearing any and all input.
The moly belongs there. I'm not sure on the other two; I can't recall seeing UOA with that unique higher-than-normal combination.
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      06-29-2014, 02:41 PM   #314
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iron is probably from the engine breaking in. Not sure about the copper. Definitely not the bearings since you have the newer version. Maybe some brass seals wearing in?
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      06-29-2014, 03:14 PM   #315
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Your engine is still new enough that some elevated wear metals are to be expected. I would keep doing what you're doing. Remember, a single UOA doesn't tell us much. You need to establish a baseline and watch trends.
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      06-30-2014, 05:15 PM   #316
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My previous is TWS Edge Professional. This latest is from a 3.5k change using 0w-40 (I had to change to replace a failing oil sensor.)
Car: 08, not driven daily, weekends maybe once per month now, aside from exhaust, it's bone stock, esp the air filter, 3.5k represents a year's worth of driving.

The noticeable things during this cycle with 0w-40
  1. Needed to add oil (this is NOT a bad thing)
  2. Engine was a tad louder (not always a bad thing)
  3. Oil temp fluctuations cooled faster (needle moves more, TWS needle rarely moved from 215F or so in the summer)
  4. Iron and aluminum are higher (slightly, as in line with others using 0w-40)
  5. Lead is down (again, slightly, my lead values have never been above 3, I have to log into blackstone to find my other 2 reports for TWS)

Suffice to say I went back to TWS Edge Pro since this is a very small difference and in my climate, TWS makes more sense. Maybe for those in freezing, sub-zero climates, it will. For now, looks like I got a good "one".

EDIT: I spoke with my Indy mechanic about the higher iron, his two-word response: "iron camshafts", said he'd rather sacrifice the rod bearings as opposed to "going topside" with head work in the S65.
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Last edited by thekurgan; 06-30-2014 at 06:48 PM. Reason: spoke with Indy mechanic
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      06-30-2014, 06:51 PM   #317
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So it seems like a trend has been formed with lighter grades of oil reducing bearing metals but increasing iron. Anyone have any idea why this would be and if the increased iron is something to be concerned about?
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      06-30-2014, 06:51 PM   #318
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So it seems like a trend has been formed with lighter grades of oil reducing bearing metals but increasing iron. Anyone have any idea why this would be and if the increased iron is something to be concerned about?
camshaft wear is what I was told to suspect
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      06-30-2014, 07:36 PM   #319
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A small elevation in iron is nothing to be alarmed about, IMO. People are way too fast to panic when they see something slightly above average. Remember, we've seen engines have major problems that had "clean" UOAs, and motors that hummed along for a very long time with spiking particulates in the UOAs.
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      06-30-2014, 09:00 PM   #320
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Dparm, agreed it may be nothing to panic about but it still seems to be a trend. For one reason or another, lighter grades seem to be producing reports with an increase in iron.
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      06-30-2014, 09:03 PM   #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
A small elevation in iron is nothing to be alarmed about, IMO. People are way too fast to panic when they see something slightly above average. Remember, we've seen engines have major problems that had "clean" UOAs, and motors that hummed along for a very long time with spiking particulates in the UOAs.
LOL, it's not a panic, it's just an observation based on a baseline. For me, 0w-40 doesn't make much sense for my climate.
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      06-30-2014, 09:56 PM   #322
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One mistake made by Blackstone, added 4 qts. Switched from 10W60 to 0W40 this sample.
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      06-30-2014, 10:37 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannys M3 View Post
One mistake made by Blackstone, added 4 qts. Switched from 10W60 to 0W40 this sample.
You're doing 15k oil changes?
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      07-01-2014, 12:36 AM   #324
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Danny you look like you'll need new bearings soon. that lead is crazy high, and with such a high mileage, those bearings are no doubt on their last leg.
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      07-01-2014, 02:30 AM   #325
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Re: Danny M3s: Myself I would cut the mileage between changes.....and definitely watch for a spike in copper if you didn't want to change the bearings as a precaution.

General: Camshaft wear was one of the subjects that came up in the discussion I had with Castrol's advanced technical support in the UK on changing away from the OEM 10W60 oil. You would want to be absolutely sure that any oil you went with can withstand the load on the oil film between the lobe and the lifter. The S65 requires extra strong valve springs to stop valve bounce at high rpms = extra load.
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      07-01-2014, 02:40 AM   #326
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Danny you look like you'll need new bearings soon. that lead is crazy high, and with such a high mileage, those bearings are no doubt on their last leg.
I think you're wrong. If you could disclose your oil analysis training, we'll discuss this last leg theory you have.

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You're doing 15k oil changes?
I have since day 1. Until the copper trend rises I don't plan to change the interval.

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      07-01-2014, 03:07 AM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
A small elevation in iron is nothing to be alarmed about, IMO. People are way too fast to panic when they see something slightly above average. Remember, we've seen engines have major problems that had "clean" UOAs, and motors that hummed along for a very long time with spiking particulates in the UOAs.
A voice of reason, go figure that amongst the crowd of panic. People don't realize that a steady trend is more favorable verses catastrophic failure especially in jet aircraft.
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      07-01-2014, 04:47 AM   #328
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Quote:
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A small elevation in iron is nothing to be alarmed about, IMO. .
But it is a trend that is becoming common...a change to 0W40 Mobil 1 is followed by a slight drop in lead and a slight increase in iron.
If the drop in lead is portrayed as a benefit then the increase in iron should draw equal concern. Can't have it both ways.
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      07-01-2014, 06:18 AM   #329
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Aside from the very high lead, Dannys report doesnt look all that bad for a 15k mile interval. Viscosity held up pretty well too.
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      07-01-2014, 09:23 AM   #330
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Quote:
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LOL, it's not a panic, it's just an observation based on a baseline. For me, 0w-40 doesn't make much sense for my climate.

Sure it does. The higher VI and better cold start performance is beneficial in any climate. Even though "cold" for you might be 50 degrees, the oil is still VERY thick at that temperature.
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