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      02-13-2015, 05:37 PM   #1
Flying Ace
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Imperfect oil analysis comparison of TWS vs Edge Pro vs M1

Got my first M1 report back with positive results.

Summary:
On 10k change interval and using Castrol TWS Motorsport, I had an alarmingly high lead level count.

On a 5k change interval and using Castrol Edge Professional (reformulated TWS), lead came down, but still have an elevated amount. Also note the Edge Pro has a lot more Moly (& other additives) that have anti-wear properties.

On a 5k change interval and using Mobil 1 0-40, all numbers back to universal averages.

Tons of variables to list that can result in the same analysis over the last 10k miles:

1. TWS was changed at the high mileage interval, whereas all others were changed at half the interval. There is a hypothesis that low change intervals regardless of M1 or TWS would help prevent excess wear. This is a possible variable, it's hard to conclude as I don't have a 5k TWS report to show.

2. The lead was worn down completely from rod bearings by 37k miles. This is also a possible variable that supports this analysis, however, I would also expect copper to start wearing at a more elevated rate during the Edge Pro and M1 change if I indeed exhausted my lead coating.

3. A grandma hijacked my car and going easy on the bearings. Possible. Very Possible.

Regardless, I drank the M1 Kool-Aid, it didn't poison me or take me to my starship, and I am sleeping well tonight.

btw, on M1, I had to add 1.25 to 1.50 L of oil in 5k, wow.
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      02-13-2015, 06:25 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace
Got my first M1 report back with positive results.

Summary:
On 10k change interval and using Castrol TWS Motorsport, I had an alarmingly high lead level count.

On a 5k change interval and using Castrol Edge Professional (reformulated TWS), lead came down, but still have an elevated amount. Also note the Edge Pro has a lot more Moly (& other additives) that have anti-wear properties.

On a 5k change interval and using Mobil 1 0-40, all numbers back to universal averages.

Tons of variables to list that can result in the same analysis over the last 10k miles:

1. TWS was changed at the high mileage interval, whereas all others were changed at half the interval. There is a hypothesis that low change intervals regardless of M1 or TWS would help prevent excess wear. This is a possible variable, it's hard to conclude as I don't have a 5k TWS report to show.

2. The lead was worn down completely from rod bearings by 37k miles. This is also a possible variable that supports this analysis, however, I would also expect copper to start wearing at a more elevated rate during the Edge Pro and M1 change if I indeed exhausted my lead coating.

3. A grandma hijacked my car and going easy on the bearings. Possible. Very Possible.

Regardless, I drank the M1 Kool-Aid, it didn't poison me or take me to my starship, and I am sleeping well tonight.

btw, on M1, I had to add 1.25 to 1.50 L of oil in 5k, wow.
I buy short OCIs reduce wear
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      02-13-2015, 06:32 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by 330indy View Post
I buy short OCIs reduce wear
hmmm..
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      02-13-2015, 07:10 PM   #4
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Great info between the big three
About M1 I know about increased metal wear and consumes more oil than the the other two.
My BMW/Dealer changed last year from TWS to EDGE and I felt and heard the difference and I'm thinking the TWS is dated !
Engine runs a lot smoother with EDGE and adding oil is no longer required ,color is different too .
But you know it's realy hard to tell and personal I'm thinking when seeing the Blackstone comparison between the three....it's also about how you was driving your car !
For exampe...Maybe you was redlining more with one oil vs others ? And driving behavior when cold is still in the game ......
So.... Personal I'll stick with EDGE because my S65 seems to like it a lot .
Thanks for sharing ! Realy appreciate it
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      02-13-2015, 09:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Great info between the big three
About M1 I know about increased metal wear and consumes more oil than the the other two.
My BMW/Dealer changed last year from TWS to EDGE and I felt and heard the difference and I'm thinking the TWS is dated !
Engine runs a lot smoother with EDGE and adding oil is no longer required ,color is different too .
But you know it's realy hard to tell and personal I'm thinking when seeing the Blackstone comparison between the three....it's also about how you was driving your car !
For exampe...Maybe you was redlining more with one oil vs others ? And driving behavior when cold is still in the game ......
So.... Personal I'll stick with EDGE because my S65 seems to like it a lot .
Thanks for sharing ! Realy appreciate it
I've got a couple of reports of M1 with the car driven much much much harder than it ever was with 10W60 (track day, and so many mountain runs) and the lead ppm was 3.

Mike, looks better for sure. Are you planning to do rod bearings eventually?
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      02-13-2015, 09:12 PM   #6
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The other thing to consider is a shorter change interval may not indicate lower wear. If the lead is half and so is the interval what does that tell you?
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      02-13-2015, 10:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I've got a couple of reports of M1 with the car driven much much much harder than it ever was with 10W60 (track day, and so many mountain runs) and the lead ppm was 3.

Mike, looks better for sure. Are you planning to do rod bearings eventually?
Mmm...That's a short but difficult question..
First... I've 32K miles on it ,and never had any problems .
Biggest thing was at 30K and changed Pentosin preventive .
You know my car is actualy a garage queen and always clean , never driven in winter and is charging now on my CTEK from before Christmas waiting for nice weather and roads without roadsalt .
Even in summer it's only running in weekends when I'm not working and she only gets wet when I wash her ,and when it rains she stays in my garage.
So it's not my DD !
But once when she's out on the road and warmed up ...believe me I step on it !
About changing the bearings...
I'm very doubtful because my S65 runs just perfect and need to say for now because from what we are seeing on here....who knows ?
So one day I'm thinking...Yes I have to change them , and the other day I feel realy no need to do the bearings...
Open up my S65 when she sounds and runs just perfect...man that's really hard !
I don't saw any blow engine or bearing failure over here , and of course I know we have only a hand full of S65 compared to the US .
But when I'm hearing the quietest and not as usual ticking or rattle noise...and I know how the S65 not should sound , at that moment I'm 100% sure to replace them and hopefully it's not to late .
But at this moment right now... it's more no than yes .
And I know I'm the one all over the place in blown engine thread because it's not a matter of $$$$$ for me , but I realy feel for all those people all over the World in trouble caused by lack of our brand and te more because I know more...the more it makes me angry !
BTW....I'm not sure someone ever changed the bearings of the S65 here in Belgium , but when it's needed I'm going to change them just over the border , and after only 20 minutes I'm there....In Germany !
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Last edited by ///M Power-Belgium; 02-14-2015 at 09:19 AM.
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      02-15-2015, 05:56 PM   #8
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You can try adding a can and a half of MoS2, it should help your M1 oil consumption, it sure helped mine.
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      02-17-2015, 01:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
The other thing to consider is a shorter change interval may not indicate lower wear. If the lead is half and so is the interval what does that tell you?
If you look at the report, it shows his last change with Edge TWS was the same interval as the Mobil 1. It is a reduction in lead with the same oil change interval.
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      02-17-2015, 01:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
If you look at the report, it shows his last change with Edge TWS was the same interval as the Mobil 1. It is a reduction in lead with the same oil change interval.
True I was speaking in general not about this specific example. I have seen people reduce their interval and be excited that levels are lower. It should go without saying that the shorter the interval the lower almost all wear levels will be.
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      02-17-2015, 02:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
If you look at the report, it shows his last change with Edge TWS was the same interval as the Mobil 1. It is a reduction in lead with the same oil change interval.
yeah, I think this is very significant and shows that M1 is likely the proper oil to use to prevent further wear on the internals.
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      02-17-2015, 02:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Great info between the big three
About M1 I know about increased metal wear and consumes more oil than the the other two.
My BMW/Dealer changed last year from TWS to EDGE and I felt and heard the difference and I'm thinking the TWS is dated !
Engine runs a lot smoother with EDGE and adding oil is no longer required ,color is different too .
But you know it's realy hard to tell and personal I'm thinking when seeing the Blackstone comparison between the three....it's also about how you was driving your car !
For exampe...Maybe you was redlining more with one oil vs others ? And driving behavior when cold is still in the game ......
So.... Personal I'll stick with EDGE because my S65 seems to like it a lot .
Thanks for sharing ! Realy appreciate it
I understand what you're saying, but I have been driving it even harder on Edge and M1 than TWS.

I firmly believe a long change interval and the use of TWS is detrimental to the engine. I would advise all owners to at least go to a shorter change interval regardless off the oil they use.
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      02-17-2015, 02:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
I understand what you're saying, but I have been driving it even harder on Edge and M1 than TWS.

I firmly believe a long change interval and the use of TWS is detrimental to the engine. I would advise all owners to at least go to a shorter change interval regardless off the oil they use.
Question about oil...
What would you do in case when the oil gets old ?
For example...Last year I was running only about 3K miles ...you know no time and always working...ect..
So now I'm running the Edge with only 3K on it , but the oil is soon more than one year old...
Oil change or not is this situation ?.... ( I know the car will remember me only after two years )
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      02-17-2015, 11:02 PM   #14
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Flying Ace, you need to do a motor flush on your vehicle, stat!
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      02-17-2015, 11:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
yeah, I think this is very significant and shows that M1 is likely the proper oil to use to prevent further wear on the internals.
No, M1 0W40 @ 5K oil intervals will reduce wear on specifically, the bearings, but will have the reciprocal effect on other wear metals after 5K miles.
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      02-18-2015, 08:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Flying Ace, you need to do a motor flush on your vehicle, stat!
Why?
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      02-18-2015, 08:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
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No, M1 0W40 @ 5K oil intervals will reduce wear on specifically, the bearings, but will have the reciprocal effect on other wear metals after 5K miles.
What evidence is there to support this
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      02-18-2015, 08:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
What evidence is there to support this
Who the hell knows. This is SFP Part 2 I guess
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      02-18-2015, 09:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Who the hell knows. This is SFP Part 2 I guess
Woah there fella....just because I disagree with what you think doesn't mean you have to be a DB about it.
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      02-18-2015, 09:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
No, M1 0W40 @ 5K oil intervals will reduce wear on specifically, the bearings, but will have the reciprocal effect on other wear metals after 5K miles.
Where did this magical 5k mile interval come from. Sounds like Prophecy!
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      02-18-2015, 09:24 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Woah there fella....just because I disagree with what you think doesn't mean you have to be a DB about it.
Isn't he saying the exact same thing that you are saying? That running M1 is going to destroy the S65? Don't see the need to get butt hurt over it, it's a forum. It was supposed to be a light joke.

Good day sir
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      02-18-2015, 09:51 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Isn't he saying the exact same thing that you are saying? That running M1 is going to destroy the S65? Don't see the need to get butt hurt over it, it's a forum. It was supposed to be a light joke.

Good day sir
Ah OK my mistake....I thought we were all grown ups here.
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