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      10-07-2009, 05:26 PM   #1
gonzo
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B8 S4 & e92 M3

Sorry for link only.

Oh well, here.

M3 manual.
S4 DCT w/ MTM ECU.

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      10-07-2009, 06:47 PM   #2
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whoa, pretty close! M3 has a monster top end. S4 pulled well though. Any vids of this S4 vs chipped 335i?
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      10-07-2009, 09:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domobrown View Post
whoa, pretty close! M3 has a monster top end. S4 pulled well though. Any vids of this S4 vs chipped 335i?
I'm sure there will be plenty vids of the S4 vs 335 once more of them hit the road.

This will probably be my next car...ha and I say that with 1300 miles on my 135i. I'm going to enjoy having a small, fast fun car, but the next one will prob have to be a sedan in about 3-4 years. That or I could just keep the 135i along with the STi. I have a problem giving up cars, I get too attached.
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      10-07-2009, 09:41 PM   #4
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I think we just found my wife's next car...

She loves the new A4, and this one has balls.
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      10-07-2009, 09:57 PM   #5
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That went as expected, the M3 is a car built to be driven in the high RPM range and pulled hard once it was there.
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      10-07-2009, 10:07 PM   #6
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The S4 has 430HP, it is far from stock.
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      10-07-2009, 10:48 PM   #7
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That went as expected, the M3 is a car built to be driven in the high RPM range and pulled hard once it was there.
Yep. The race was from a 50 km/h (31 mph) roll, putting the M3 right in no man's land between 1st and 2nd gear, which was a pretty big disadvantage. The M3 driver started in 2nd gear, which made for a bad start. I probably would have started in 1st in that situation.

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Originally Posted by DirtBag335 View Post
The S4 has 430HP, it is far from stock.
The MTM tune is amazing. Costs a pretty penny though.
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      10-07-2009, 10:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtBag335 View Post
The S4 has 430HP, it is far from stock.
A simple ECU tune isn't that far from stock.
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      10-07-2009, 11:23 PM   #9
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like I said in the other thread.

A. ROFLMAO at the M3 Driver no skill whatsoever started in the wrong gear and shifts slow. (thats why he loses every race on M5board)

B. Despite The S4 having about 100hp over stock and a Dual Clutch tranny advantage it still lost.
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      10-07-2009, 11:26 PM   #10
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A simple ECU tune isn't that far from stock.
I would say 100hp difference is far from stock.
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      10-08-2009, 01:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonmartin View Post
like I said in the other thread.

A. ROFLMAO at the M3 Driver no skill whatsoever started in the wrong gear and shifts slow. (thats why he loses every race on M5board)

B. Despite The S4 having about 100hp over stock and a Dual Clutch tranny advantage it still lost.
That's what people don't realize with the M3. They say "it doesn't have enough torque", well, mostly newbs like persian54 say that, but that's ignoring the fact that the M3 was geared towards running in the higher RPM range since it is based off an actual CUP car. Since most people drive in the lower-mid RPM range, they will rarely, if ever, touch the sweet spot for the M3.

But trust me when I say, once you get there, you definitely want to stay there as long as possible and it's more exciting than any 335i I've been in (tuned or not).
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      10-08-2009, 11:44 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewSong View Post
That's what people don't realize with the M3. They say "it doesn't have enough torque", well, mostly newbs like persian54 say that, but that's ignoring the fact that the M3 was geared towards running in the higher RPM range since it is based off an actual CUP car. Since most people drive in the lower-mid RPM range, they will rarely, if ever, touch the sweet spot for the M3.

But trust me when I say, once you get there, you definitely want to stay there as long as possible and it's more exciting than any 335i I've been in (tuned or not).


What people don't realize is how comfortable the M3 is in the upper reaches of its rpm range. The 335 feels strained between 4k and 5k rpm when not at WOT (i.e., when cruising around town with light throttle application). On the other hand, the M3 is VERY comfortable cruising around town in that rev range (though not exactly fuel efficient), and the instant you goose the throttle, it pretty much launches into hyperspace.

For those people who'd rather just putz around town without thinking about it and have gobs of torque on call down low, the 335 is probably the better choice. If you drive an M3 though, you'll find yourself changing your driving style, and you won't want to go back.
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      10-08-2009, 01:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewSong View Post
That's what people don't realize with the M3. They say "it doesn't have enough torque", well, mostly newbs like persian54 say that, but that's ignoring the fact that the M3 was geared towards running in the higher RPM range since it is based off an actual CUP car. Since most people drive in the lower-mid RPM range, they will rarely, if ever, touch the sweet spot for the M3.

But trust me when I say, once you get there, you definitely want to stay there as long as possible and it's more exciting than any 335i I've been in (tuned or not).
My 335 will still kick your butt :P
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      10-08-2009, 01:58 PM   #14
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Cool

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My 335 will still kick your butt :P
Bring it baby! A true track car doesn't start gasping for air at 5,000 RPM.

jk

Seriously though, I've been karting twice since June and haven't had one 335i really come close.

Those Mazda Miata's on the other hand...
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      10-08-2009, 02:13 PM   #15
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Guys, you have to still remember that though this S4 has an extra 95hp it's still weighs close on 1800kgs compared to the M3 at about 1625kgs (according to an Autocar weight test) so while they are closely matched for power the S4 is still trailing the M3 in power to weight, the most important thing in acceleration. So in my opinion what ever advantage the DSG was giving would have been more than cancelled out by it's weight disadvantage. Torque is the only thing that the S4 would have an advantage and it was evident at the early stages on the race, while the M3's gearing and torque that held strong nearer peak revs help it regain control but only towards the end of the race.

Power to weight
M3 (255hp) vs MTM S4 (230hp)

Torque to weight
M3 (246Nm) vs MTM S4 (286Nm)

Given the data is it not understanding that it was still a close race.
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      10-08-2009, 08:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonmartin View Post
like I said in the other thread.

A. ROFLMAO at the M3 Driver no skill whatsoever started in the wrong gear and shifts slow. (thats why he loses every race on M5board)

B. Despite The S4 having about 100hp over stock and a Dual Clutch tranny advantage it still lost.
Not every race. Losing to M5s and M6s doesn't surprise me. But for a heavy car, the S4 actually did well. No denying the top end of the M3 though.
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      10-08-2009, 08:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Guys, you have to still remember that though this S4 has an extra 95hp it's still weighs close on 1800kgs compared to the M3 at about 1625kgs (according to an Autocar weight test) so while they are closely matched for power the S4 is still trailing the M3 in power to weight, the most important thing in acceleration. So in my opinion what ever advantage the DSG was giving would have been more than cancelled out by it's weight disadvantage. Torque is the only thing that the S4 would have an advantage and it was evident at the early stages on the race, while the M3's gearing and torque that held strong nearer peak revs help it regain control but only towards the end of the race.

Power to weight
M3 (255hp) vs MTM S4 (230hp)

Torque to weight
M3 (246Nm) vs MTM S4 (286Nm)

Given the data is it not understanding that it was still a close race.
Weight will not cancel out the advantage over the manual. If it was a Manual S4 it would have done worse thats a fact. Also if the M3 would have been a DCT it also would have done better. And lastly had the M3 driver started in the proper gear (1st) alot of that initial jump the Audi got would have been absorbed easily and thats IF the Audi would have even been ahead at anypoint after that.
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      10-08-2009, 08:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonmartin View Post
Weight will not cancel out the advantage over the manual. If it was a Manual S4 it would have done worse thats a fact. Also if the M3 would have been a DCT it also would have done better. And lastly had the M3 driver started in the proper gear (1st) alot of that initial jump the Audi got would have been absorbed easily and thats IF the Audi would have even been ahead at anypoint after that.
How does weight not affect performance? Regardless of S tronic or not, weight will still be there.
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      10-08-2009, 08:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domobrown View Post
Not every race. Losing to M5s and M6s doesn't surprise me. But for a heavy car, the S4 actually did well. No denying the top end of the M3 though.
I still havent seen a race this particular M3 has ever won HONESTLY (and I dont mean by .5-1cl at the very end). Also I'm not surprised it lost to M5/M6's either but not by the amount he lost by no way in hell lol. I've been beaten by an M6 when I was stock by about 2-3 cars at 150mph not too bad imo but iirc this guy lost by about 10+ its rediculous the guy should trade in his car for a car he can drive better like Automatic luxury sedan.
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      10-08-2009, 08:58 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domobrown View Post
How does weight not affect performance? Regardless of S tronic or not, weight will still be there.
I never said it didnt affect it, I said it wouldn't cancel out the advantage of the DCT.
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