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      10-18-2009, 07:38 AM   #23
MrHarris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
A breif overview and a few questions about these two setups...

The Riss HFC x-pipe & Gintani axle back exhaust made 377.4 whp.

That's more whp than the new full Gintani catless exhaust on the video.

Are you happier now, or do you think you should have just kept the Riss racing/Gintani setup you had on the car before?

Or was the sound of the full Gintani exhaust what you were after?

The power gains don't seem to be all that different between the two setups.

I was expecting to see a bigger performance boost by deleting the cats from the Gintani x-pipe...but the whp numbers don't back that up.

Any input on why this occurred?

Removal of the cats from the exhaust path, should have boosted your whp numbers a good bit, but it didn't really improve the bottom line performance very much at all.

I'd be disappointed if I bought another x-pipe, and the power ended up being nearly identical to what I had before.

Well...unless I was after the sound more than the power...

BTW: Who's idea was it to change out the x-pipe? Was it all your idea, or were you convinced by guys on the forum? (or maybe Gintani?)

I only ask, because it seems that at least part of your decision must have been based on the potential power bump you assummed would materialize.

I'm really curious to hear your reply to these these questions, as I think its important for everyone to know your honest impressions of the two different setups. It would really help the community to hear whether you would do it all over again? And if not...why?

Remember, most of us aren't filthy rich, and we can't keep buying the same parts over and over again.

The Riss HFC x-pipe & Gintani axle back exhaust made 377.4 whp.

That's more whp than the new full Gintani catless exhaust on the video.


-The Riss setup made 377.4whp max, most of the time was making 367-371. It was 78-80 degrees when I dyno'd the Riss. The Gintani setup was dyno'd at 93 degrees and made 373-378, maxed at 381.7whp.

Are you happier?

-Overall yes I am much happier. I'll be honest with the reasons why I switched. The Riss sounded very good, but combined with the Gintani mufflers it created drone in weird areas. 0-2600rpm major bassy drone. 2600-2700 livable drone (just noise not really drone). 2700-3300 very high pitch annoying drone, must drive in 5th on the freeway. The Gintani drones under 2500 and at 2950-3050rpm. From 2500-2950 the car is very livable when cruising. From 3050-3300 the noise is slightly high pitched on the freeway but with music you cannot hear it which again makes it more livable.

The Riss Racing x-pipe as far quality the of welds cannot be compared to Gintani's. Riss Racing also had fitment issues but I fixed that by custom installing resonators (I told them this at the beginning but they shrugged my discovery off saying "it's not off"). Also their x-pipe does NOT use the center brace which I find important for long term stability.

BTW the full Gintani setup has a much cleaner sound. Down low it sounds MUCH meaner while up top sounds more exotic.

The one thing I do miss about the Riss setup were the HFC's. They did it's job in making the car not smell. I'm still testing to see if I can live going catless, but if it really gets to me I will go with Gintani's HFC solution (easy to switch out because their cat/catless section unbolts off like Riss Racing's).

It was my idea to change out the x-pipe. I decided AFTER I had Gintani tune my car to the Riss Racing x-pipe. Gintani has been nice enough to put up with my finicky ways as I've been changing many things. Even so, I may end up changing out the catless section for HFC's. I will be doing a final dyno on a nice cool day on a dynojet to see what kind of generous numbers my car can put out

I forgot to say, my torque went up 7ft lbs at the wheels pretty much across the board w/ the Gintani x-pipe even though it was 13-15 degrees hotter. The Riss put out 273.x, the Gintani put out 280.x which is also something I can feel I too don't have money growing on trees but this was necessary to me (inconvenient drone) to fix and was well worth it.
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      10-18-2009, 08:17 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post

The Riss HFC x-pipe & Gintani axle back exhaust made 377.4 whp.

That's more whp than the new full Gintani catless exhaust on the video.


-The Riss setup made 377.4whp max, most of the time was making 367-371. It was 78-80 degrees when I dyno'd the Riss. The Gintani setup was dyno'd at 93 degrees and made 373-378, maxed at 381.7whp.

Are you happier?

-Overall yes I am much happier. I'll be honest with the reasons why I switched. The Riss sounded very good, but combined with the Gintani mufflers it created drone in weird areas. 0-2600rpm major bassy drone. 2600-2700 livable drone (just noise not really drone). 2700-3300 very high pitch annoying drone, must drive in 5th on the freeway. The Gintani drones under 2500 and at 2950-3050rpm. From 2500-2950 the car is very livable when cruising. From 3050-3300 the noise is slightly high pitched on the freeway but with music you cannot hear it which again makes it more livable.

The Riss Racing x-pipe as far quality the of welds cannot be compared to Gintani's. Riss Racing also had fitment issues but I fixed that by custom installing resonators (I told them this at the beginning but they shrugged my discovery off saying "it's not off"). Also their x-pipe does NOT use the center brace which I find important for long term stability.

BTW the full Gintani setup has a much cleaner sound. Down low it sounds MUCH meaner while up top sounds more exotic.

The one thing I do miss about the Riss setup were the HFC's. They did it's job in making the car not smell. I'm still testing to see if I can live going catless, but if it really gets to me I will go with Gintani's HFC solution (easy to switch out because their cat/catless section unbolts off like Riss Racing's).

It was my idea to change out the x-pipe. I decided AFTER I had Gintani tune my car to the Riss Racing x-pipe. Gintani has been nice enough to put up with my finicky ways as I've been changing many things. Even so, I may end up changing out the catless section for HFC's. I will be doing a final dyno on a nice cool day on a dynojet to see what kind of generous numbers my car can put out

I forgot to say, my torque went up 7ft lbs at the wheels pretty much across the board w/ the Gintani x-pipe even though it was 13-15 degrees hotter. The Riss put out 273.x, the Gintani put out 280.x which is also something I can feel I too don't have money growing on trees but this was necessary to me (inconvenient drone) to fix and was well worth it.
Ok cool.

I see why you switched from the Riss racing HFC x-pipe/Gintani axle back, to the Full Gintani setup.

It's important to highlight the fact that one setup had cats, and the other did not. (to put the two sets of dyno numbers in there proper perspective.

So the gains you are getting now aren't directly comparable to what you had before...

It will be very interesting to see the dyno pulls of the full Gintani exhaust setup (with their HFC cats installed) vs. the Riss racing HFC/Gintani axle back setup you replaced.

Those numbers will be directly comparable, and we can see the actual performance differences between the two setups on the same car.

BTW: I tried to live with a 'catless' car (my second E36 M3 in the late 90's), and the pungent smell of raw gasoline constantly made me nausous.
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      10-18-2009, 02:14 PM   #25
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Good call on the X pipe switch man. I saw ur Riss Racing X pipe and man was that one of the worst X pipes I have seen. Quality, welding, fitment, the whole thing just look like it was trying to imitate Gintanis design but they did a horrible job at it.

Well I really cant smell the catless fumes when im driving but I honestly kinda like the smell. Ive been around race fuel and catless cars since I was young so I guess thats y i love the smell of race fuel and the catless smell doesnt get to me. But yeah you can always at Gintanis HFC section.
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      10-18-2009, 03:05 PM   #26
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The difference in quality alone is worth making the change. Gintani > Riss Racing any day of the week in my book .

Quote:
Originally Posted by niterider View Post
Good call on the X pipe switch man. I saw ur Riss Racing X pipe and man was that one of the worst X pipes I have seen. Quality, welding, fitment, the whole thing just look like it was trying to imitate Gintanis design but they did a horrible job at it.

Well I really cant smell the catless fumes when im driving but I honestly kinda like the smell. Ive been around race fuel and catless cars since I was young so I guess thats y i love the smell of race fuel and the catless smell doesnt get to me. But yeah you can always at Gintanis HFC section.
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      10-18-2009, 04:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niterider View Post
Good call on the X pipe switch man. I saw ur Riss Racing X pipe and man was that one of the worst X pipes I have seen. Quality, welding, fitment, the whole thing just look like it was trying to imitate Gintanis design but they did a horrible job at it.

Well I really cant smell the catless fumes when im driving but I honestly kinda like the smell. Ive been around race fuel and catless cars since I was young so I guess thats y i love the smell of race fuel and the catless smell doesnt get to me. But yeah you can always at Gintanis HFC section.
+1

Love the smell too. It's so addicting LOL jk man
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      10-18-2009, 04:31 PM   #28
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the only time i smell mine is if i am sitting at idle for long periods. other then that a little smell hear or there is well worth the sound and power you get
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      10-18-2009, 05:27 PM   #29
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Sounds great!
I'd would get this setup for the sound alone,the added hp/torque is nice too,hee hee.
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