BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos
 
Strasse Wheels
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-28-2009, 06:49 PM   #1
M3_WC
Colonel
29
Rep
2,242
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

New S4 has underrated HP numbers

Just like the 335i, the new 2010 Audi S4 is underrated.


"Audi tuner APR stuck a 2010 Audi S4 on an AWD-dyno and discovered the following. Instead of the 333 hp and 325 torques Audi is claiming, they pulled 331 hp and 336 pound-feet of torque... at the wheels! Figuring that AWD cars have about a 20% parasitic drivetrain power loss, the actual crank output of the S4 is huge. How huge? By our calculations just about 400 horsepower/torques."


Link:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/28/r...is-underrated/
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2009, 07:05 PM   #2
JoosyJoos
Major
JoosyJoos's Avatar
United_States
22
Rep
1,292
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335i Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Johns Creek, GA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to JoosyJoos
Shit just got real...
__________________

1998 M3 Vert
1995 M3 Track Car
2008 335i - Retired
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2009, 08:12 PM   #3
Ender514
General
Ender514's Avatar
United_States
210
Rep
20,999
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E92 335i
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philly

iTrader: (0)

humm...thats a pretty big discrepancy
__________________
09' E92 335i | 6MT | Montego Blue | Black Dakota Leather | Dark Burl Walnut | Premium | Sport | Cold Weather | Nav | Sirius | Comfort Access | iPod and USB adapter
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2009, 08:24 PM   #4
Nikolas
Colonel
20
Rep
2,068
Posts

 
Drives: 996 TT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sierra Mountains

iTrader: (0)

I figured it was underrated but not by that much. Cool!
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2009, 09:02 PM   #5
TwinTurboXI
Major
40
Rep
1,390
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 135i
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pittsburgh

iTrader: (9)

Hmm, factory freak?

We'll see soon enough when more stock dynos start to show up.
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2009, 09:03 PM   #6
lib
Major
lib's Avatar
37
Rep
1,405
Posts

 
Drives: <This space for rent>
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ATX

iTrader: (0)

I'm willing to bet it's coming in at less than 20% drive-train loss.

With the massive push towards fuel efficiency, manufacturers are doing everything in their power to reduce wastes of that type.
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2009, 09:08 PM   #7
Muffnbluff
Redline Addict
Muffnbluff's Avatar
11
Rep
783
Posts

 
Drives: '12 BMW 335is
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: STL

iTrader: (0)

Holy fuck, those are some big numbers for a stock 3.0L engine. That would explain why DTM was able to get 430hp from a tune and exhaust...they were starting out with huge numbers already.
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2009, 09:23 PM   #8
TMNT
Captain
41
Rep
875
Posts

 
Drives: 330ci ZHP
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoosyJoos View Post
Shit just got real...
This.
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2009, 10:16 PM   #9
Nikolas
Colonel
20
Rep
2,068
Posts

 
Drives: 996 TT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sierra Mountains

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lib View Post
I'm willing to bet it's coming in at less than 20% drive-train loss.

With the massive push towards fuel efficiency, manufacturers are doing everything in their power to reduce wastes of that type.
Well technically this would be a negative loss. Yes that would be some awesome engineering!
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2009, 10:32 PM   #10
domobrown
Banned
Austria
6
Rep
512
Posts

 
Drives: Audi RS5 S-Tronic
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Salzburg, Austria

iTrader: (0)

Whoa, if only it were lighter! That extra weight is holding back a potential beast
Appreciate 0
      10-28-2009, 11:30 PM   #11
335fourdoor
Captain
7
Rep
671
Posts

 
Drives: 335 e90
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: west

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Just like the 335i, the new 2010 Audi S4 is underrated.


"Audi tuner APR stuck a 2010 Audi S4 on an AWD-dyno and discovered the following. Instead of the 333 hp and 325 torques Audi is claiming, they pulled 331 hp and 336 pound-feet of torque... at the wheels! Figuring that AWD cars have about a 20% parasitic drivetrain power loss, the actual crank output of the S4 is huge. How huge? By our calculations just about 400 horsepower/torques."


Link:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/28/r...is-underrated/
for reeaalz?
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2009, 12:42 AM   #12
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
160
Rep
7,507
Posts

 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
I've always claimed that the S4 was under rated, in much the same way as the 335 does. But the claimed drivetrain lose is wrong, quattro is incredibly hard to figure, plus all FI engines are designed to develop there quoted output at close on 40 degree, less temp will produce more power.
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2009, 01:10 AM   #13
Garduna
Brigadier General
Garduna's Avatar
Canada
51
Rep
4,009
Posts

 
Drives: 128i Sedona Red
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoosyJoos View Post
Shit just got real...
Got FOCKING REAL!
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2009, 03:51 AM   #14
Deda
Major General
Deda's Avatar
Croatia
74
Rep
6,520
Posts

 
Drives: BMW X6 35d
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Croatia

iTrader: (0)

That is lot of power!
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2009, 08:08 AM   #15
lyndon_h
Lieutenant Colonel
lyndon_h's Avatar
20
Rep
1,920
Posts

 
Drives: e90
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Madagascar

iTrader: (2)

why is it taking this long for this information to drop? I'm sure other media companies have dyno'd the car...
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2009, 10:29 AM   #16
ianbiz
4th E90
ianbiz's Avatar
United_States
67
Rep
5,136
Posts

 
Drives: German
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Melbourne/Orlando, Florida

iTrader: (7)

Send a message via AIM to ianbiz
im not going to lie, if these cars are reliable in like 4 years, i want one.
__________________
Ian
06 325 06 330 06 330 07 335 11 335 Msport
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2009, 10:35 AM   #17
Berduderunner
drk one
Berduderunner's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
792
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 135i
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tampa/Orlando

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 e90 335i  [0.00]
2008 135i  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to Berduderunner
even @ 15% that is massively underrated... No wonder the pig that is the S4 beat out the 335i in that last comparo...
__________________
Jet Black | Coral | HighGlossBlack | Steptronic | Premium | Sport | Comfort | ActiveSteering | Navi | HiFi | HD | iPod | SAT
BMS JB3 v2.0 | BMS DCI | Berk Tech Sport Exhaust | UR * DPs | CoolingMist Meth Kit w/ CMGS | H&R OE Sport Springs | Breyton GTS-R | Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Specs | GP Thunder 8000K Low Beams/Angel Eyes/Cornering Lights | LED Interior Light Kit | Window Tint | Smoked Tail Lights | Smoked License Plate Cover
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2009, 10:59 AM   #18
Sniz
Lieutenant General
Sniz's Avatar
190
Rep
10,572
Posts

 
Drives: e92 335 - gone // e36 M3 turbo
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ellicott City, MD

iTrader: (1)

love to see a few more dyno's before I get a hard on.....but i'm going to start off w a little chub.


lol
__________________
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2009, 11:30 AM   #19
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
160
Rep
7,507
Posts

 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berduderunner View Post
even @ 15% that is massively underrated... No wonder the pig that is the S4 beat out the 335i in that last comparo...
Are you forgetting that the 335i is also massively underrated itself.

BTW, I think your 15% or there abouts is spot on.

There would mean the S4 was underrated by 15% and the 335i which has been clocked (if your believe dyno figures) at 350hp which is in itself an underrating of about 15%.
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2009, 11:40 AM   #20
Ender514
General
Ender514's Avatar
United_States
210
Rep
20,999
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E92 335i
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philly

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Are you forgetting that the 335i is also massively underrated itself.

BTW, I think your 15% or there abouts is spot on.

There would mean the S4 was underrated by 15% and the 335i which has been clocked (if your believe dyno figures) at 350hp which is in itself an underrating of about 15%.
from what i noticed of members post (correct me if im wrong), it seems that most are getting in the neighborhood of 270hp at the wheels...maybe a little more. with a drivetrain loss of 15%, which amounts to 40hp, thats only 310 crank hp. at 20%, its 324 crank hp.
__________________
09' E92 335i | 6MT | Montego Blue | Black Dakota Leather | Dark Burl Walnut | Premium | Sport | Cold Weather | Nav | Sirius | Comfort Access | iPod and USB adapter
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2009, 11:53 AM   #21
TSM330i
2006 330i, TSM, Black, manual, sport
TSM330i's Avatar
United_States
74
Rep
3,134
Posts

 
Drives: E90 330i, E86 Z4 3.0si
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester Springs, PA

iTrader: (2)

There is a big problem with chassis dyno's. It depends on what type of dyno they're using. The only way to truely test hp figures is to pull the engine out and put it on a bench dyno. Chassis dyno are usually used to measure a gain for aftermarket parts to gauge the increase of the stock output.
I had a long discussion with Katech Engineering at Corvettes @ Carlisle a few years back. My stock Z06 dynoed at 445 rwhp on the dyno, with a 15% powertrain loss that is 524 crank hp. When I told him this he said that all the engines from GM that they've dynoed on a bench dyno come in right about 505hp. He said the difference is the way the chassis dyno measure hp.
Don't put too much credit to these numbers. Dyno a 335 back to back with the S4 and see the difference.
__________________
2006 330i, TSM, Black, Sport, JIC Cross Coil-Overs, UUC Sways, 18" Advan RS, Mich PSS 255/265, BMW Electric Steering Wheel, Rogue shifter, M-Tech front, CF emblems, Dinan TB, Intake, exhaust, strut bar, Stoptech BBK, LSD, M3 susp., LUX 5, CF Hood and CSL, Sparco Seats, AA tune, CF Roof
Appreciate 0
      10-29-2009, 12:42 PM   #22
Muffnbluff
Redline Addict
Muffnbluff's Avatar
11
Rep
783
Posts

 
Drives: '12 BMW 335is
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: STL

iTrader: (0)

Seeing as APR has a pretty long history of tuning cars, I'd assume that they'd be able to get fairly accurate estimates based on how previous cars have dynoed.

Regardless, 330whp on any dyno makes it pretty obvious that the car is underrated, whether it's actually around 400hp or 375hp...the point of the matter is that it's clearly a lot more than 333.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:36 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST