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      10-03-2009, 06:57 PM   #45
Peanuto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpimping View Post
Depends on ur build. If you aren't 200 pounds muscular then get a 20 gauge.
Good point. Reminds me of the time when I had an old Browning where the firing pin jacked out on me in the middle of a solid snow geese flock. Went back to the car, grabbed my backup. A Browning featherweight Citori 525 featherweight. I am a big guy. 6'0" 210, 36 inch waist. I keep myself in shape. But I took my backup gun, which I only use for upland shoting and loaded her up with 3 inch BB's. My first shot the stock jumped clean off my shoulder and came right back down on my cheek. Gave me a decent black eye. Lesson learned. I've been shoting waterfowl/upland for 12 years since I was about !! so I know what I'm doing. But this was a solid lesson learned.
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      10-04-2009, 12:07 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpimping View Post
Depends on ur build. If you aren't 200 pounds muscular then get a 20 gauge.
I'd still suggest a 12 gauge, regardless of your build. There is far more ammunition options for the 12 gauge, including reduced recoil loads, and far greater availability. I bet you could walk into any town, regardless of size, in the USA and find 12 gauge ammo, but 20 gauge would be more questionable.

The 12 gauge would give you the ability to run 2 3/4" reduced recoil loads up to 3" Magnum slug loads.

But no matter what you choose, be sure to shoot it a lot and develop "muscle memory" on how it operates. You don't want to be fumbling with the safety in an "OH SHIT!!" moment.

My friends and I would hone our shotgun skills on the trap range. We called it "Tactical Trap" because we were all shooting 18.5" Benelli M1 Super 90 Combat shotguns. You'll get some odd looks from the Citori guys, but when you break 20+ out of 25, they'll come around. Basic 12 gauge ammo is also pretty cheap at Wal*Mart (even though I hate the place.....)


I'd recommend this bad boy:
Remington 870 Express Tactical 12ga 18" Ghost Ring Sights for $413
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      10-05-2009, 03:11 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scollins View Post
I'd still suggest a 12 gauge, regardless of your build. There is far more ammunition options for the 12 gauge, including reduced recoil loads, and far greater availability. I bet you could walk into any town, regardless of size, in the USA and find 12 gauge ammo, but 20 gauge would be more questionable.

The 12 gauge would give you the ability to run 2 3/4" reduced recoil loads up to 3" Magnum slug loads.

But no matter what you choose, be sure to shoot it a lot and develop "muscle memory" on how it operates. You don't want to be fumbling with the safety in an "OH SHIT!!" moment.

My friends and I would hone our shotgun skills on the trap range. We called it "Tactical Trap" because we were all shooting 18.5" Benelli M1 Super 90 Combat shotguns. You'll get some odd looks from the Citori guys, but when you break 20+ out of 25, they'll come around. Basic 12 gauge ammo is also pretty cheap at Wal*Mart (even though I hate the place.....)


I'd recommend this bad boy:
Remington 870 Express Tactical 12ga 18" Ghost Ring Sights for $413
Hook me up with one of those Scott
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      10-05-2009, 03:27 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital.James View Post
Hook me up with one of those Scott
PM sent with some details.
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      10-05-2009, 07:00 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuto View Post
Benelli M4 http://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/benelli_m4.php

I have a Benelli super black eagle 2 and love the thing.
Yeah and theyre about $1,400.00 compared to buying a Rem 870 or Moss 500 for $400 ish... And the benelli only has a 4 shell capacity...
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      10-05-2009, 07:51 PM   #50
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Quote:
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Yeah and theyre about $1,400.00 compared to buying a Rem 870 or Moss 500 for $400 ish... And the benelli only has a 4 shell capacity...
Yes. And nowhere did I see the post stating a price limit? 4 shell capacity. Ok. So other guns that are legal in most areas can hold 5 without plug. One more shell. If you need more than 4 shells you are probably fucked in the first place because either you are not a good enough shot to hit your target with 4 attempts, or there are multiple intruders which changes everything. Also, my Benelli isn't a home protection gun. It is made for waterfowl and that is what I use it for. I was merely stating their M4 shotgun, used by the United States Marine Corps, is a gun I would recommend.
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      10-05-2009, 07:52 PM   #51
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      10-05-2009, 08:45 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Past9 View Post
Yeah and theyre about $1,400.00 compared to buying a Rem 870 or Moss 500 for $400 ish... And the benelli only has a 4 shell capacity...
Your comparing apples and oranges; the M4 is a semi-automatic shotgun whereas the Remmington and Mossberg both a pump-action shotguns. If money is no object, get the M4. I have a 590 myself, but I know the sound of me racking that gun when the BG comes through the door will hopefully be more than enough of a deterrent to make them shit their pants and run out the same way they came in...
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      10-05-2009, 08:55 PM   #53
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I've made up my mind already. Mossberg 500 "Tacti-cool" it is. Just $315 from galleryofguns.com. Now that 2 weeks waiting period is another subject by itself.......
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      10-05-2009, 08:56 PM   #54
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Psychological advantage actually plays a big role in these situations, in war, and anywhere. A pump action shotgun's distinct sound is enough most of the time to scare the shit out of someone so a shot doesn't NEED to be fired.

Scenario:

You're the intruder, trying to rob, kill and or both... You THINK you have the element of surprise until you hear SHKK SHKK!... think again, better bounce your ass out of there because I bet your life you aren't as well armed or as trained as I am. Game over.
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      10-05-2009, 09:11 PM   #55
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I see your point in the psychological aspect. But I would feel a lot more comfortable with a semi-auto. Should the weapon have to be fired, it is much easier to keep a bead on a target with a semi-auto rather than having to pump a new shell in. Been hunting since I was 11. I know dick all about rifles and pistols. But I do know shotguns from an active use point of view, not just shoot at a non-moving paper target.
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      06-28-2010, 05:54 PM   #56
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Get a benelli super black eagle 2, some machine....!
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      06-28-2010, 06:46 PM   #57
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Get a benelli super black eagle 2, some machine....!
Already have one
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      06-28-2010, 07:05 PM   #58
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shotguns are legal in CA and you don't need a license. easiest to obtain. get a 12 gauge no slugs so if someone enters your hallway at night- you can't miss.
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      06-28-2010, 07:11 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoturboz View Post
shotguns are legal in CA and you don't need a license. easiest to obtain. get a 12 gauge no slugs so if someone enters your hallway at night- you can't miss.
That's a common misconception really. You still have to aim, even using buckshot.
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      06-29-2010, 09:13 AM   #60
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Mossburg 500 with door breacher and no shoulder stock. My favorite piece by far!!!
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      06-29-2010, 10:05 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radix View Post
That's a common misconception really. You still have to aim, even using buckshot.

You can shoot from the hip and easily hit a person in a house. Obviously you're not going to do any damage with it pointed completely away from them, but I wouldn't call it "aiming" exactly.

If you pull the trigger on a 12 gauge inside a house, no matter where it's pointed, everyone in the place is going to have a VERY strong desire to GTFO in the fastest way imaginable, and that's really the intended result.
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      06-29-2010, 03:25 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
You can shoot from the hip and easily hit a person in a house. Obviously you're not going to do any damage with it pointed completely away from them, but I wouldn't call it "aiming" exactly.

If you pull the trigger on a 12 gauge inside a house, no matter where it's pointed, everyone in the place is going to have a VERY strong desire to GTFO in the fastest way imaginable, and that's really the intended result.
Aim means to point the weapon at.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aim

Quote:
Main Entry: 1aim
Pronunciation: \ˈām\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French aesmer & esmer; Anglo-French aesmer, from a- (from Latin ad-) + esmer to estimate, from Latin aestimare
Date: 14th century
intransitive verb
1 : to direct a course; specifically : to point a weapon at an object
2 : aspire, intend <aims to reform the government>
transitive verb
1 obsolete : guess, conjecture
2 a : point <aim a gun> b : to direct to or toward a specified object or goal <a program aimed at reducing pollution>
So to point a shotgun is to aim it. Personally, I'd fire from the shoulder and not the hip, if nothing else because it's tactically easier to move with the weapon forward of the body, it allows you to make yourself a smaller target, and it allows for greater accuracy. Shotguns were designed to be a shoulder fired weapon.
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      06-29-2010, 05:13 PM   #63
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If it's strictly home defense, you don't need anything more than a .12 gauge 870.

If you plan to actually shoot the gun outside of the house (trap,skeet, whatever), then you may want to explore other options.

The bottom line is, for home defense all you need it something that will:

A.) Load the shells
B.) Safely fire

You don't need some police-spec, door-breaching, laser-sighted, tactical shotgun.
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      06-29-2010, 06:59 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radix View Post
Aim means to point the weapon at.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aim

.
Split hairs much? You know damn well what he was talking about with the earlier comment, and don't pretend like you don't. Do you really think anyone here believed they were going to be able to hit someone with a shotgun without actually even pointing it?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by radix View Post
So to point a shotgun is to aim it. Personally, I'd fire from the shoulder and not the hip, if nothing else because it's tactically easier to move with the weapon forward of the body, it allows you to make yourself a smaller target, and it allows for greater accuracy. Shotguns were designed to be a shoulder fired weapon.

Spare me the education. I spent my last two years in the Marine Corps as a PMI (primary marksmanship instructor) teaching combat arms. I've got a pretty firm grasp on what shotguns were designed for and how to handle them, thanks.
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      06-29-2010, 08:47 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
Split hairs much? You know damn well what he was talking about with the earlier comment, and don't pretend like you don't. Do you really think anyone here believed they were going to be able to hit someone with a shotgun without actually even pointing it?!
You were trying to differentiate between pointing the weapon and aiming it, so it's you that was splitting hairs not me. Remember when you wrote this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
You can shoot from the hip and easily hit a person in a house. Obviously you're not going to do any damage with it pointed completely away from them, but I wouldn't call it "aiming" exactly.
That is splitting hairs. The content of the video below is what I meant when I said you have to aim, and demonstrates positively why:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
You can shoot from the hip and easily hit a person in a house. Obviously you're not going to do any damage with it pointed completely away from them, but I wouldn't call it "aiming" exactly.
could be considered "loose" advice at best, and for the record I would call it "aiming" exactly, that is if you want to hit what you're shooting at. If you want to squabble about sight alignment or where your eyes are focused, and use that to say it's not aiming then fine, but it is according to the commonly accepted meaning of the word.




So yeah, you have to be pretty accurate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
Spare me the education. I spent my last two years in the Marine Corps as a PMI (primary marksmanship instructor) teaching combat arms. I've got a pretty firm grasp on what shotguns were designed for and how to handle them, thanks.
The "education" was oriented more toward the fact that you were splitting hairs over the meaning of the word aim, and the fact that you don't consider it '"aiming"' exactly, I do and I wouldn't shoot from the hip. For the record, I was in the Marine Corps eight years. The fact that you were a PMI doesn't mean you ever taught a course on shotguns, but for the sake of this argument I'll assume you did.

Last edited by radix; 06-29-2010 at 09:00 PM.
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      06-29-2010, 09:00 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twoturboz View Post
shotguns are legal in CA and you don't need a license. easiest to obtain. get a 12 gauge no slugs so if someone enters your hallway at night- you can't miss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radix View Post
That's a common misconception really. You still have to aim, even using buckshot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radix View Post
Remember when you wrote this?


That is splitting hairs. The is what I meant when I said you have to aim. .

Did I really need to remind you what was said?

It was pretty obvious what the person you were contradicting there was talking about. If you point a shotgun down a hallway at night, and someone is standing in it, you WILL NOT miss. If you want to consider pointing it down the hallway "aiming" then way to you make the statement that "you sill need to aim"?

And where did you even come up with buckshot as the ammunition? He said "no slugs" and made no mention of buckshot.
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