BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-30-2009, 10:27 AM   #1
mklimis
Private First Class
mklimis's Avatar
6
Rep
114
Posts

 
Drives: Italian and German
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

2010 S4 vs C63 AMG vs IS-F vs RS-4

[u2b]<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/irFK8VJ_vDs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/irFK8VJ_vDs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>[/u2b]
__________________

"Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise."
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2009, 11:49 AM   #2
Vince@ V K Motorwerks
Lieutenant Colonel
Vince@ V K Motorwerks's Avatar
51
Rep
1,739
Posts

 
Drives: 01 Black 911 Turbo, 09 X5
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bloomingdale, IL

iTrader: (0)

who ever covered the lexus license plate did a poor job it shows up in one frame: SC-4442E, LOL anyways nice video.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2009, 01:40 PM   #3
dirtyylicous
Swagger on a trillion
dirtyylicous's Avatar
8
Rep
370
Posts

 
Drives: IS300
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (0)

Nice vid, 4 cars i would love to own.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2009, 02:41 PM   #4
EmPower
Captain
EmPower's Avatar
United_States
36
Rep
901
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 X5 xdrive 35i
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

The B8 S4 seems to be the quickest in there.. any truth in the matter? I would not be surprised if its only quicker to 60 since its a SC engine and 4-wd, although it seems to be considerably quicker than even the RS-4
__________________
e92 Schwartz/Koralle Rot/Pappel Grau/ZSP/Sitzheizung

Real Men drive BMW
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2009, 03:19 PM   #5
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
157
Rep
7,507
Posts

 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmPower View Post
The B8 S4 seems to be the quickest in there.. any truth in the matter? I would not be surprised if its only quicker to 60 since its a SC engine and 4-wd, although it seems to be considerably quicker than even the RS-4
I highlighted that same thing in another thread about this video, on a starting start the RS4 should hold the advantage but didn't here, maybe it's clutch had taken a battering and slipping slightly.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2009, 03:26 PM   #6
EmPower
Captain
EmPower's Avatar
United_States
36
Rep
901
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 X5 xdrive 35i
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

I think this is something that needs to be highlighted. A few months ago I had started this thread about the M5 I drove. I was actually planning to trade my car in for an M5, but walked away a little dissappointed. I guess I am hooked onto forced induction, and feel that a 335i (or rather an xi) could keep up with this pack
__________________
e92 Schwartz/Koralle Rot/Pappel Grau/ZSP/Sitzheizung

Real Men drive BMW
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2009, 08:32 PM   #7
mklimis
Private First Class
mklimis's Avatar
6
Rep
114
Posts

 
Drives: Italian and German
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
I highlighted that same thing in another thread about this video, on a starting start the RS4 should hold the advantage but didn't here, maybe it's clutch had taken a battering and slipping slightly.
There is a pretty good chance that the DCT S4 is just as fast if not faster then the manual RS4.

Now the new C&D article that pits the S4 vs 335i sedan (both manual) could only squeeze out a 4.9 sec to 60 and 13.4 1/4mile at 106mph.
__________________

"Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise."
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2009, 12:14 PM   #8
Crisp
Lieutenant Colonel
Crisp's Avatar
Albania
41
Rep
1,570
Posts

 
Drives: E60 M5 6 Speed
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NYC

iTrader: (1)

The way that S4 is moving, I can't help but think that it's tuned.

It slaughtered the RS4 even though the RS4 got a much better launch.

That thing has to have at least 400hp, but it says all cars are stock doesn't it?
__________________
Past BMWs: 2009 E93 335i -2010 E60 535i -2008 E60 M5 - 2013 M3
Current BMWs:2008 E64 M6 - 2014 F30 320i
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2009, 01:01 PM   #9
gonzo
Brigadier General
gonzo's Avatar
United_States
132
Rep
4,994
Posts

 
Drives: as many as possible
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: TeXXXas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mklimis View Post
There is a pretty good chance that the DCT S4 is just as fast if not faster then the manual RS4.

Now the new C&D article that pits the S4 vs 335i sedan (both manual) could only squeeze out a 4.9 sec to 60 and 13.4 1/4mile at 106mph.
Who knows with these companies.

Watch someone toss their car (B8 S4) on a good dyno and see 348 or something from the crank.
__________________
Crazy Diamond
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2009, 01:19 PM   #10
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
157
Rep
7,507
Posts

 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
I'm almost sure the true figure of the S4 is closer to 360hp and not the quoted 335hp that Audi claim. But then the same is true from the 335i, the Golf GTI and Imperza.

Maybe it's a FI thing.
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2009, 10:34 PM   #11
Turbo>NA
xbox gamertag: HuGeBluEmOnKeY
Turbo>NA's Avatar
Armenia
85
Rep
3,762
Posts

 
Drives: M-Sport LCI
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: SoCal (626)

iTrader: (2)

According to that video

RS4 sucked balls, S4 was super quick off the line, and the C63 owned everyone
__________________

E92 335i alpine white | black dokota | auto | zpp | zsp | heated | iPod
- ltbmw : vorsteiner : linea corsa : h&r : k&n : e92-lighting : expectalot-vinyl -
--GONE--
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2009, 11:05 PM   #12
sokdo
Lieutenant
sokdo's Avatar
11
Rep
582
Posts

 
Drives: 335i E92
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Fullerton, CA

iTrader: (0)

I didn't know IS-F was that much slower than the c63 especially because of the gearing and up top speed.
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2009, 12:31 AM   #13
mklimis
Private First Class
mklimis's Avatar
6
Rep
114
Posts

 
Drives: Italian and German
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisp View Post
The way that S4 is moving, I can't help but think that it's tuned.

It slaughtered the RS4 even though the RS4 got a much better launch.

That thing has to have at least 400hp, but it says all cars are stock doesn't it?


It's a good point but the RS4 has a few disadvantages;
- its heavier by a couple hundred pounds over the new S4
- the strongest stock RS4 to date (that I know of) was Automobile Mag's test ride which only dyno-ed 331whp/ 276lb-ft on 93oct. And there are a few RS4 that dyno-ed as low as 280whp on 91oct.


So with the new S4 being lighter and probably well under-rated I wouldn't be surprised that it's showing its older sibling its taillights.
__________________

"Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise."
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2009, 12:44 AM   #14
mklimis
Private First Class
mklimis's Avatar
6
Rep
114
Posts

 
Drives: Italian and German
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mLGrJjJpcSA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mLGrJjJpcSA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]

^good reference point
__________________

"Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise."
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2009, 01:53 AM   #15
Nawaaz
Brigadier General
United_States
69
Rep
4,643
Posts

 
Drives: .
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Exciting vid!
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2009, 02:13 AM   #16
the infamous...
Relapsed Bimmerpost Addict
the infamous...'s Avatar
United_States
435
Rep
17,533
Posts

 
Drives: like I'M BOUT THAT LIFE
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: PARADISE aka CANES COUNTRY

iTrader: (0)

German pova yah.
Attached Images
 
__________________


"simple is clean" -The ///ModFather
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2009, 05:27 AM   #17
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
157
Rep
7,507
Posts

 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mklimis View Post
It's a good point but the RS4 has a few disadvantages;
- its heavier by a couple hundred pounds over the new S4
- the strongest stock RS4 to date (that I know of) was Automobile Mag's test ride which only dyno-ed 331whp/ 276lb-ft on 93oct. And there are a few RS4 that dyno-ed as low as 280whp on 91oct.


So with the new S4 being lighter and probably well under-rated I wouldn't be surprised that it's showing its older sibling its taillights.
This is nothing personal or fanboy stuff from me but everyone here has to get a grip on themselves when they start quoting and believing the BS figures by dynos on Quattro cars.

The fuel quality difference would only account for only 5% at most (I'm being generous here) so I have one question I need to ask you here, do you seriously believe that in the manufacturing and assembly process that the RS4 could have a 10% output variation? This is so absurd that it's beyond the point where it's laughable.

I have witnessed both the M3 and RS4 being tested and the difference between the times each car produced left me in no doubt that the drivetrain loss differences were a lot smaller than most people believe.

An example of this is Autocar tested both cars, admittedly on different days which were both dry but it was on the same surface, both were within a tenth of each other at the 1/4mile and only 0.5mph difference in speed. The M3 was actually the quicker to 60mph so traction wasn't an issue and through each segment of 10mph speed increase they swapped the lead at the end of data they were only 2 tenths difference at the 150mph mark which can easily explained by their differing aerodynamics.
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2009, 11:05 AM   #18
mklimis
Private First Class
mklimis's Avatar
6
Rep
114
Posts

 
Drives: Italian and German
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
This is nothing personal or fanboy stuff from me but everyone here has to get a grip on themselves when they start quoting and believing the BS figures by dynos on Quattro cars.

The fuel quality difference would only account for only 5% at most (I'm being generous here) so I have one question I need to ask you here, do you seriously believe that in the manufacturing and assembly process that the RS4 could have a 10% output variation? This is so absurd that it's beyond the point where it's laughable.
Nope but I have yet to find any reasonable explenation for this large variance(this excluding any improper dyno calibrations). All im saying is that far too many RS4 owners had there hearts broken
__________________

"Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise."
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2009, 12:18 PM   #19
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
157
Rep
7,507
Posts

 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
My point was every RS4 should be posting either 331hp or 280hp but not everything from one extreme to the other. Does BMWs produce this variation? I doubt it so the logical answer is dynos have a lot of trouble figuring for the Torsen quattro system that Audi use.

At a guess I would say that the Torsen system should produce drivetrain loses some where between BMW's loses and Nissan's GTR. The M3's figures are roughly 12% and the GTR at 18-20%. I would reckon something like 15%, since it has only one shaft going to the rear and the Nissan has one going to the rear and the other going back to the front. The actual transfer box will be sapping less than you think.
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2009, 12:31 PM   #20
mklimis
Private First Class
mklimis's Avatar
6
Rep
114
Posts

 
Drives: Italian and German
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IL

iTrader: (0)

But thats the crazy part! The WHP numbers are all over the place! As far as drivetrain loss using 331whp to get Audi's claimed numbers you are looking at 25% loss
__________________

"Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise."
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2009, 12:52 PM   #21
footie
Major General
footie's Avatar
No_Country
157
Rep
7,507
Posts

 
Drives: ????????????
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: BMW M3 will get a V6TT

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mklimis View Post
But thats the crazy part! The WHP numbers are all over the place! As far as drivetrain loss using 331whp to get Audi's claimed numbers you are looking at 25% loss
That's my point, the dynos are giving false readings all over the place.
Appreciate 0
      10-02-2009, 01:05 PM   #22
Year's_End
RWD only.
Year's_End's Avatar
United_States
334
Rep
12,336
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Pete, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmPower View Post
I think this is something that needs to be highlighted. A few months ago I had started this thread about the M5 I drove. I was actually planning to trade my car in for an M5, but walked away a little dissappointed. I guess I am hooked onto forced induction, and feel that a 335i (or rather an xi) could keep up with this pack
Is your sole purpose in judging speed based on whether or not your car is as fast/faster than others?
__________________
E92 335i: Space Grey|Coral Red|Aluminum Trim

Future Ride: 2015 Mustang GT Premium |Guard|401A|PP|Recaros|6MT
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:58 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST