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      09-22-2009, 12:35 AM   #1
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Climate change is happening, whether you think it's getting colder or warmer; sorry.

I am curious as to everyones' thoughts on global warming. Let me hear your thoughts on global warming. Debates are always fun

Global warming is SCIENCE, NOT POLITICS.

Denying climate change is like denying that the Earth is round.

Anyone that gets their data from CNN, Rush Limbaugh, fucking Al Gore, or ANY "news" organization that's been tainted by the unbelievable fact-skewing phenomenon knows as politics needs to get in touch with reality.

There's this amazing little thing that no one does anymore called "critical thinking." What is critical thinking? Exactly how news SHOULD be, but it isn't: drawing conclusions for yourself from raw data.

Look at the raw data from the IPCC. The IPCC is specifically there to study climate change. You CANNOT argue with raw data, period; that is, unless you have other raw data against it that is statistically significant enough to prove the other data to be incorrect. Go onto their website and begin reading their data and studies - it may take you three months to do, but hey, critical thinking requires hard work. It's time people fucking do some.

There are millions of years worth of data that we have at our disposal - published, we have up to 600,000 BC worth of data about the content of the air and temperature based upon ice-core drillings. The next 400,000 or so will be published once a quite large scientific panel has deemed the entire set of data 100% accurate, unbiased (both statistically and politically), and correct. 100%; not 2/3 vote, but 100%. Not even 98% will cut it. Gotta be all or none.

Not to mention, we've got 1.2 million temperature monitors and CO2 monitors constantly providing data throughout the Earth. What have we found over the past 50-100 years? Temperature has been increasing. That's a fact. Yes, it is a cycle, that is very true; however, we've gone well above and beyond the 300PPM of CO2 that the Earth's natural cycle has never exceeded. We are currently at 400PPM; that is a record high in literally over one million years.

To all those saying CO2 is not harmful to the atmosphere, here, let me put this in very simple terms for you:

Our atmosphere is about 20 miles deep. That's what is keeping heat in. Some can escape, but much gets absorbed into things. Those things are you, plants, trees, rocks, the ocean, etc. Matter cannot escape naturally, but heat can. Now, take a look at Venus. Venus is farther from the sun than Mercury, yet its temperature is hotter; why would that be? It is approximately 155 miles deep in its atmosphere. The atmosphere is approximately 97% CO2. Any heat that gets into that planet stays there; it cannot escape. The atmosphere is simply too thick for it to get out and full of CO2 which helps to keep heat in.

The r^2 value between CO2 and temperature is probably pretty damn near close to one given a sinusoidal correlation. That kind of correlation doesn't come up often in statistics at all. I am actually curious as to how low the p-value is on that correlation, too.

The point is, yes, climate change is happening whether you like it or not.

I challenge everyone to go read the raw data yourself. Go check out the IPCC and other governmental data or university data; read both the facts for and against global warming. I have. I've seen the raw data and I can draw a conclusion that global warming is happening at a very increased rate and is continuing to increase given our current consumption rate of the world.

DO NOT READ A STATISTICAL SUMMARY ONLY. Check it with the raw data from a non-news or politics website. Read how the experiment was performed and check with what they did.

I am ready to change my mind about global warming at any given moment in time. I really will; so long as someone gives me the raw data and a significant amount of it that will suggest that there is a statistically significant difference between the data types such that climate change really is not happening.

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      09-22-2009, 01:06 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Zell View Post
There's this amazing little thing that no one does anymore called "critical thinking."
That's because this topic has become the latest new religion.

Those who believe in it are trying to convert the non-believers before they perish for their sins.
Those who don't believe in it are trying to convince the believers that their god isn't real.
Good luck with that...

Is there a rational way to have this discussion? Absolutely. Will you see that rational thought? Doubtful.
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      09-22-2009, 08:59 AM   #3
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Dude, the Earth's climate has been changing for millions of years. How about the previous ice ages? Did hydrocarbon emmissions cause those? Go away and play with your chemistry set or do statistical analysis. There's nothing you can do about it anyway. Why do some humans think that the world cares about their pathetic little life cycles?

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      09-22-2009, 09:06 AM   #4
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Global warming is nothing more then a tree hugging liberal democratic movement to increase government control over us.
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      09-22-2009, 09:44 AM   #5
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You title the thread Climate Change -which nobody would disagree our climate is changing, but then you made a justification for man-caused Global Warming in some of your points which is what other folks and scientist would tend to disagree on.

The temperature on Mars has increased at the same rate as the earth since the 1970s as published the Journal Nature (You can't call them mainstream media) by lead researcher Lori Fenton (source). There aren't many highways or H2 Hummers on Mars that I know of that can be attributed to this change but it does cast aspersion on the 'man-caused' issue or at least put it in suspect.

Before the libs go apeshit and put their panties in a wad, Anti-GlobalWarming /= AntiConservation or AntiCommonSense. Reliable conservation and use of renewable fuels should continue to be developed, just not at the expense of our economy, our livelihood, or mandating behavior detrimental to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
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      09-22-2009, 04:04 PM   #6
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So, I read this much of your message:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
Climate change is happening, whether you think it's getting colder or warmer; sorry.
I am curious as to everyones' thoughts on global warming. Let me hear your thoughts on global warming. Debates are always fun

Global warming is SCIENCE, NOT POLITICS.

Denying climate change is like denying that the Earth is round.
Here is my response:

The science is very much left up to interpretation.

The only way to make the radical environmentalists happy would be to eliminate the use of many of our natural resources. Then they would jump on the next thing they can make controversial for political gain.

The only way to rightly deal with implementing a solution that will keep everybody happy is to totally drop the story that we are making the planet warm up, or that we are causing climate change. Just drop that story entirely. Come up with alternative means of fueling our vehicles, powering our houses, continuing our businesses, helping the third world to emerge from poverty... Means that are competitive and take the place of the status quo not by deception and edict, but by competition and profit. If you can pull it off, then there should be little controversy.
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      09-22-2009, 06:29 PM   #7
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Manbearpig FTW!

Oh, and OP, loving that kool-aid I see...

Q: Do I need winter tires to drive my car across the glaciers near Chicago?

A: NO you f'g idiot because they all melted when the last ice age subsided. You know well before cars, factories and blow-hard liberals spewing shit all day!
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