BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Coding / ConnectedDrive / Audio-Video / Electronics / Bluetooth / I-Drive & Nav
 
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-19-2009, 09:19 PM   #1
dolby
Second Lieutenant
dolby's Avatar
26
Rep
262
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

My Hifi system upgrade.

Next week I should pick up my new e90 M3 and have been putting together a system. Here is the list....


Amp - JL Audio HD900/5
Speakers - Focal 100 VRS Components - Front and rear.
Subs - Earthquake SWS-8
Line driver - AudioControl Matrix
Processor - Rockford Fosgate 3SIXTY.2

Any reason that I might have any problems with these integrating with the car?

Dolby
__________________
- 1998 E36M3/4 (retired)
- 2005 E46 330i ZHP (totaled)
- 2007 E90 335i Black/Blk/Alu Trim (retired)
- 2009 E90 M3 - Jet Blk on Blk mDCT
- 1987 E30 325is - track car conversion in progress

Last edited by dolby; 09-19-2009 at 10:39 PM.
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2009, 10:02 PM   #2
808MGuy
Colonel
808MGuy's Avatar
114
Rep
2,341
Posts

Drives: 2009 E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oahu, Hawaii

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dolby View Post
Next week I should pick up my new e90 M3 and have been putting together a system. Here is the list....


Amp - JL Audio HD900/5
Speakers - Focal 100 VRS Components - Front and rear.
Subs - Earthquake SWS-8
Processor - Rockford Fosgate 3SIXTY.2

Any reason that I might have any problems with these integrating with the car?

Dolby
Should be fine as long as the RF 3sixty.2 can take a balanced differential input.
__________________
2016 Porsche Cayman GTS - Sapphire Blue / Black Full Leather Interior / Carrera S Wheels
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2009, 10:29 PM   #3
dolby
Second Lieutenant
dolby's Avatar
26
Rep
262
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 808MGuy View Post
Should be fine as long as the RF 3sixty.2 can take a balanced differential input.
Good point....in a bit of research on google, it looks like it does even though it does not mention it in the manual.

EDIT...in reading further, it does not have differential inputs.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=399832

dolby
__________________
- 1998 E36M3/4 (retired)
- 2005 E46 330i ZHP (totaled)
- 2007 E90 335i Black/Blk/Alu Trim (retired)
- 2009 E90 M3 - Jet Blk on Blk mDCT
- 1987 E30 325is - track car conversion in progress
Appreciate 0
      09-20-2009, 02:00 AM   #4
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
601
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dolby View Post
Good point....in a bit of research on google, it looks like it does even though it does not mention it in the manual.

EDIT...in reading further, it does not have differential inputs.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=399832

dolby
It does accept differential signals, my issue was the E46 OEM HK speed sensitive volume changing the input levels making the 3SIXTY.2 calibration unstable. It seems that Rockford Fosgate made some changes to this device years ago (my three units were very early production) that apparently solved this input level issue.

Regardless, you will be using a Matrix line driver (what I used to fix my particular issue) so the inputs to the 3SIXTY.2 will be non-differential anyways.
Appreciate 0
      09-20-2009, 08:58 AM   #5
dolby
Second Lieutenant
dolby's Avatar
26
Rep
262
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
It does accept differential signals, my issue was the E46 OEM HK speed sensitive volume changing the input levels making the 3SIXTY.2 calibration unstable. It seems that Rockford Fosgate made some changes to this device years ago (my three units were very early production) that apparently solved this input level issue.

Regardless, you will be using a Matrix line driver (what I used to fix my particular issue) so the inputs to the 3SIXTY.2 will be non-differential anyways.
Technic,

I have yet to buy anything except for the subs. If the 3SIXTY.2 does have balanced inputs, why would I still need to use the line driver?

BTW, have you seen the mObridge Preamp DA1000? Is it still vaporware? It looks like a good solution to bypass the outout stage of the head unit.

dolby
__________________
- 1998 E36M3/4 (retired)
- 2005 E46 330i ZHP (totaled)
- 2007 E90 335i Black/Blk/Alu Trim (retired)
- 2009 E90 M3 - Jet Blk on Blk mDCT
- 1987 E30 325is - track car conversion in progress
Appreciate 0
      09-20-2009, 10:15 AM   #6
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
601
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dolby View Post
Technic,

I have yet to buy anything except for the subs. If the 3SIXTY.2 does have balanced inputs, why would I still need to use the line driver?

BTW, have you seen the mObridge Preamp DA1000? Is it still vaporware? It looks like a good solution to bypass the outout stage of the head unit.

dolby
You do not have to use it, I used it because of my particular issues. You should not have any input issues with the 3SIXTY.2 if its brand new.

Those mObridge pramps are only for the MOST sound systems (Logic7 and Enhanced Premium Audio), they cannot be used with the HiFi systems (non-MOST). These devices are supposed to be out, but only for Porsche and Audi applications so far.
Appreciate 0
      09-20-2009, 10:27 AM   #7
dolby
Second Lieutenant
dolby's Avatar
26
Rep
262
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
You do not have to use it, I used it because of my particular issues. You should not have any input issues with the 3SIXTY.2 if its brand new.

Those mObridge pramps are only for the MOST sound systems (Logic7 and Enhanced Premium Audio), they cannot be used with the HiFi systems (non-MOST). These devices are supposed to be out, but only for Porsche and Audi applications so far.
Thanks! The 3SIXTY.2 will be new.

I thought that I read somewhere that the mObridge could be used with the HiFi system if you had the head unit re-coded at your local service center. I have looked, but can not find where I read that. The gains in going that route would probably not be worth it anyway.

I'm really looking forward to tearing into this install. Although a very simple one, it will be the first in years for me.

dolby
__________________
- 1998 E36M3/4 (retired)
- 2005 E46 330i ZHP (totaled)
- 2007 E90 335i Black/Blk/Alu Trim (retired)
- 2009 E90 M3 - Jet Blk on Blk mDCT
- 1987 E30 325is - track car conversion in progress
Appreciate 0
      09-20-2009, 08:59 PM   #8
dolby
Second Lieutenant
dolby's Avatar
26
Rep
262
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

It is all ordered and will be installed before the end of the month. I will try and post some pictures and RTA graphs of the before and after.

Dolby
__________________
- 1998 E36M3/4 (retired)
- 2005 E46 330i ZHP (totaled)
- 2007 E90 335i Black/Blk/Alu Trim (retired)
- 2009 E90 M3 - Jet Blk on Blk mDCT
- 1987 E30 325is - track car conversion in progress
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2009, 05:20 AM   #9
MrHarris
yodog
MrHarris's Avatar
United_States
116
Rep
5,034
Posts

Drives: '86 Corolla
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Diamond Bar, Ca

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2009 BMW  [5.00]
Send a message via AIM to MrHarris
Your car have premium sound or no premium sound?
__________________

2009 E92 M3 | Alpine White | Black Extended | Advan RS | Turner Test Pipes | Dinan Axle-Back | OETuning | Eibach Springs | UUC SSK | VRS Front Lip | VRS Type I Diffuser | Matte Black | RPi Scoops | MS Filter | Yokohama AD08 | F1 Pinnacle
Special Thanks: Gintani | OETuning | eAs
Appreciate 0
      09-21-2009, 11:22 AM   #10
dolby
Second Lieutenant
dolby's Avatar
26
Rep
262
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post
Your car have premium sound or no premium sound?
HiFi(non Premium)
__________________
- 1998 E36M3/4 (retired)
- 2005 E46 330i ZHP (totaled)
- 2007 E90 335i Black/Blk/Alu Trim (retired)
- 2009 E90 M3 - Jet Blk on Blk mDCT
- 1987 E30 325is - track car conversion in progress
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2009, 06:53 PM   #11
dolby
Second Lieutenant
dolby's Avatar
26
Rep
262
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

The system is all installed and completely looking stock again. The processor is installed in the spare tire area and the amp is in stock amp location with a custom bracket that was quickly welded together.

The new sound is worlds better with much more headroom. One mistake made was ordering the 2 ohm 8" drivers. In parallel the load would have been too much for the JL Audio amp so I wired them in series. 4 ohms/500watts...not much of a compromise. Maybe I won't have to worry about the amp overheating now.

After smoothing out the system and setting crossover points with a RTA the sound was even better. The system did not need much EQ to get a smooth curve within 2-3db. The only dip in the system is in the 125hz range and if I let the subs carry any more, they are too easily localized.

Once the EQ was all set up, I time aligned all the drivers with a tape measure and then tweaked by ear to bring the center stage in front of my face. Now the imaging is pretty clear with only a little bit of wandering in the extreme HF and low mids.

Overall I am very pleased with the way it turned out. More tweaking to come, of course. And there is a slight alternator noise now present although I think a good filter on the 3sixty will get rid of that.


Dolby
__________________
- 1998 E36M3/4 (retired)
- 2005 E46 330i ZHP (totaled)
- 2007 E90 335i Black/Blk/Alu Trim (retired)
- 2009 E90 M3 - Jet Blk on Blk mDCT
- 1987 E30 325is - track car conversion in progress
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2009, 07:01 PM   #12
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
601
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dolby View Post
The system is all installed and completely looking stock again. The processor is installed in the spare tire area and the amp is in stock amp location with a custom bracket that was quickly welded together.

The new sound is worlds better with much more headroom. One mistake made was ordering the 2 ohm 8" drivers. In parallel the load would have been too much for the JL Audio amp so I wired them in series. 4 ohms/500watts...not much of a compromise. Maybe I won't have to worry about the amp overheating now.

After smoothing out the system and setting crossover points with a RTA the sound was even better. The system did not need much EQ to get a smooth curve within 2-3db. The only dip in the system is in the 125hz range and if I let the subs carry any more, they are too easily localized.

Once the EQ was all set up, I time aligned all the drivers with a tape measure and then tweaked by ear to bring the center stage in front of my face. Now the imaging is pretty clear with only a little bit of wandering in the extreme HF and low mids.

Overall I am very pleased with the way it turned out. More tweaking to come, of course. And there is a slight alternator noise now present although I think a good filter on the 3sixty will get rid of that.


Dolby
Nice...

Did you end up getting the Matrix?
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2009, 07:49 PM   #13
dolby
Second Lieutenant
dolby's Avatar
26
Rep
262
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Nice...

Did you end up getting the Matrix?
Nope...took your advice. Works great without it. Thanks. The alt noise is originating from the output stage of the 3sixty. I think a good choke on the the 2v line will clear it up.
__________________
- 1998 E36M3/4 (retired)
- 2005 E46 330i ZHP (totaled)
- 2007 E90 335i Black/Blk/Alu Trim (retired)
- 2009 E90 M3 - Jet Blk on Blk mDCT
- 1987 E30 325is - track car conversion in progress
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2009, 07:56 PM   #14
Technic
Lieutenant General
Technic's Avatar
United_States
601
Rep
12,208
Posts

Drives: 2015 320i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

iTrader: (18)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dolby View Post
Nope...took your advice. Works great without it. Thanks. The alt noise is originating from the output stage of the 3sixty. I think a good choke on the the 2v line will clear it up.
What are you using as the 12V/ground of the 3SIXTY.2?
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2009, 08:01 PM   #15
dolby
Second Lieutenant
dolby's Avatar
26
Rep
262
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

the 12v for the 3sixty is from the stock amp B+ line and the ground for the JL amp and 3sixty is the ground point on the driver's side rear wheel well.

Dolby
__________________
- 1998 E36M3/4 (retired)
- 2005 E46 330i ZHP (totaled)
- 2007 E90 335i Black/Blk/Alu Trim (retired)
- 2009 E90 M3 - Jet Blk on Blk mDCT
- 1987 E30 325is - track car conversion in progress
Appreciate 0
      10-04-2009, 03:51 PM   #16
quality_sound
8 tracks of madness
United_States
44
Rep
2,735
Posts

Drives: Slowly
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: At home

iTrader: (1)

You ned to fix the problem, not band-aid it with a choke. I had one of the early (read: crap) 3Sixty.2s and it never had any noise issues. If the POS I had didn't have noise issues it's got to be install related.

Also, there's no reason you can't run your 8s higher. In my car (08 GTI but equally crappy location) my 8s are running 100Hz-300Hz and you can't locate them. Now that you've got the T/A set, play with the XO settings some more. You should be able to move the 8s lowpass up considerably. I'd start around 250Hz and try moving it up and down and see how you like it.
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2009, 08:23 AM   #17
10M3MAN
Lieutenant Colonel
10M3MAN's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
1,500
Posts

Drives: 2006 Nissan Altima SER
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Wharton, TX

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via Skype™ to 10M3MAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolby View Post
The system is all installed and completely looking stock again. The processor is installed in the spare tire area and the amp is in stock amp location with a custom bracket that was quickly welded together.

The new sound is worlds better with much more headroom. One mistake made was ordering the 2 ohm 8" drivers. In parallel the load would have been too much for the JL Audio amp so I wired them in series. 4 ohms/500watts...not much of a compromise. Maybe I won't have to worry about the amp overheating now.

After smoothing out the system and setting crossover points with a RTA the sound was even better. The system did not need much EQ to get a smooth curve within 2-3db. The only dip in the system is in the 125hz range and if I let the subs carry any more, they are too easily localized.

Once the EQ was all set up, I time aligned all the drivers with a tape measure and then tweaked by ear to bring the center stage in front of my face. Now the imaging is pretty clear with only a little bit of wandering in the extreme HF and low mids.

Overall I am very pleased with the way it turned out. More tweaking to come, of course. And there is a slight alternator noise now present although I think a good filter on the 3sixty will get rid of that.


Dolby

By mistake do you mean that you should have gotten a larger amp/different amp or different speakers? or is it just a wiring issue to deal with since you wired in series... Nice info I think I want to go with this same setup..
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2009, 09:39 AM   #18
dolby
Second Lieutenant
dolby's Avatar
26
Rep
262
Posts

Drives: 2009 e90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10M3MAN View Post
By mistake do you mean that you should have gotten a larger amp/different amp or different speakers? or is it just a wiring issue to deal with since you wired in series... Nice info I think I want to go with this same setup..

I should have ordered the 4ohm versions of the speakers. Using a bigger amp would have been overkill with no benefits. Wiring the subs in series sounds great and I will probably have less heat issues next summer since the JL amp is in the stock amp location.

Good luck with your install.

Dolby
__________________
- 1998 E36M3/4 (retired)
- 2005 E46 330i ZHP (totaled)
- 2007 E90 335i Black/Blk/Alu Trim (retired)
- 2009 E90 M3 - Jet Blk on Blk mDCT
- 1987 E30 325is - track car conversion in progress
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2009, 11:04 AM   #19
quality_sound
8 tracks of madness
United_States
44
Rep
2,735
Posts

Drives: Slowly
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: At home

iTrader: (1)

If you'd run the 4 ohms and wired in parallel for a 2 ohm load yes it would have been more power but the difference would have barely audible, if at all. You're all good.
Appreciate 0
      10-22-2009, 06:53 PM   #20
roller
Private First Class
roller's Avatar
4
Rep
164
Posts

Drives: E92
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: OC, CA

iTrader: (0)

Did you really need the 3SIXTY.2? Doesn't the HD900/5 take balanced differential input?

Also, can I ask how much you spent on everything?
Appreciate 0
      10-23-2009, 11:20 AM   #21
quality_sound
8 tracks of madness
United_States
44
Rep
2,735
Posts

Drives: Slowly
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: At home

iTrader: (1)

The 3Sixty.2 is NOT an LOC. It serves that purpose but it's a crossover/eq/time alignment processor. Adding it into the chain has drastically improved the potential sound quality of the system.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:27 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST