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      09-21-2009, 04:46 PM   #23
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For the most part, Obama just cozies up to the commies, so it is no surprise if he just "gives away the farm". I'll bet that Obama will start dismantling more of our nuclear warheads and probably other technologies and policies the U.S. put into place over the years...
It didn't take very long.
Obama 'demands' more nuclear cuts
Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:20:16 GMT

Obama has demanded big changes to the US nuclear arsenal, a move that could ultimately accomplish his goal of abolishing nuclear arms totally, European officials say.

"Obama is now driving this process. He is saying these are the president's weapons, and he wants to look again at the doctrine and their role," one official said according to The Guardian.

According the report, the goal to redraw the nuclear blueprint for the US nuclear doctrine included: Reconfiguring the US nuclear force to allow for an arsenal measured in hundreds rather than thousands of deployed strategic warheads; redrafting nuclear doctrine to narrow the range of conditions under which the US would use nuclear weapons; exploring ways of guaranteeing the future reliability of nuclear weapons without testing or producing a new generation of warheads.
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      10-09-2009, 08:09 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by DaveO View Post

Regardless, back to the 101 part. The reason for this decision is simple. Russia has made it very clear that they are in no way shape or form interested in an adversarial relationship with the USA or returning to the cold war. They have made it clear they will not encroach in the least bit on any American spheres of influence and have asked us to respect the same.
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Russia is not re-asserting anything.

I assume you get all of your news from the New York Times. Russia has been very busy pushing into our sphere of influence.
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      10-10-2009, 01:50 PM   #25
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Russia as an ally... why didn't I think of that? I know it was things like their invasion of an ally, natural gas extortion of others, and the sale of advanced weapons to Iran that threw me off.

You really are not too bright. What has Russia done in the past 5 years to be an ally, never mind a better one than the Poles or Czechs?

Please try to actually *think* here.

We"re in Iraq and we're in Afghanistan. Iran is about to have a nuke. Israel is about to attack Iran. We're already asking for more troops in Afghanistan.

There is zero coincidence with dropping the missle shield and getting more troops in Afghanistan with the development of the Iran nuke capability. I dont think more troops in Afghanistan is about Afghanistan. Thats just the sales job.

Our ground forces are already stressed. We cant fight everyone.
1) Israel attacks Iran
2) Iran calls for a religious uprising in Iraq

There is a potential for the US, right now, to get f'd. Brings to mind how roman legions were lost. They too thought they could defeat anyone, anywhere, anytime, in foreign lands. History - its not just a book you didnt care to read in high school.

I think we're scared shitless about the possibility.

We're not in the cold war anymore. We're in the "war on terror," and of energy and oil. So lets save the high school rhetoric of abandoning our so called friends and allies, Poland, Czech, Georgia, etc. They were pawns in the cold war and of dismantaling of the soviet union.

The so called military assistance of these countries is worthless to us today. They are more of an albatross. Times change. The value of these relationships change.

Russia has much, much more to offer us as a real ally in our so called war on terror and Iran containment. Imagine Russia and the US working together in a meaningful way in the middle east. Hell, lets carve up the world between us instead of fighting with each other. If they want to invade whatever piss-ant country (Georgia), I say fine. We go in to Iraq and Afghanistan. Our pretense is "nation building" and the "war on terror." George Orwell 1984 anyone?

Or, remain closed minded and believe that Obama himself sets foreign policy. Continue to parrot entertainment news. Every president has countless military, strategic and diplomatic advisors whose profession are these very issues. Many are the same that advised Bush.

The recent announcement of Iran nuke capability would not have taken place without the just as recent Russian-American agreements.
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      11-09-2009, 12:48 AM   #26
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We need Israel. Who else is going to help us go into Iran to get the oil?
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      11-09-2009, 01:23 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Mighty M View Post
Please try to actually *think* here.

We"re in Iraq and we're in Afghanistan. Iran is about to have a nuke. Israel is about to attack Iran. We're already asking for more troops in Afghanistan.

There is zero coincidence with dropping the missle shield and getting more troops in Afghanistan with the development of the Iran nuke capability. I dont think more troops in Afghanistan is about Afghanistan. Thats just the sales job.

Our ground forces are already stressed. We cant fight everyone.
1) Israel attacks Iran
2) Iran calls for a religious uprising in Iraq

There is a potential for the US, right now, to get f'd. Brings to mind how roman legions were lost. They too thought they could defeat anyone, anywhere, anytime, in foreign lands. History - its not just a book you didnt care to read in high school.

I think we're scared shitless about the possibility.

We're not in the cold war anymore. We're in the "war on terror," and of energy and oil. So lets save the high school rhetoric of abandoning our so called friends and allies, Poland, Czech, Georgia, etc. They were pawns in the cold war and of dismantaling of the soviet union.

The so called military assistance of these countries is worthless to us today. They are more of an albatross. Times change. The value of these relationships change.

Russia has much, much more to offer us as a real ally in our so called war on terror and Iran containment. Imagine Russia and the US working together in a meaningful way in the middle east. Hell, lets carve up the world between us instead of fighting with each other. If they want to invade whatever piss-ant country (Georgia), I say fine. We go in to Iraq and Afghanistan. Our pretense is "nation building" and the "war on terror." George Orwell 1984 anyone?

Or, remain closed minded and believe that Obama himself sets foreign policy. Continue to parrot entertainment news. Every president has countless military, strategic and diplomatic advisors whose profession are these very issues. Many are the same that advised Bush.

The recent announcement of Iran nuke capability would not have taken place without the just as recent Russian-American agreements.
Kind of surprising of you to talk about other countries losing their independence to foreign powers considering that's what republican agenda is all about. Expected something more moral from you.
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      11-09-2009, 07:18 PM   #28
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Kind of surprising of you to talk about other countries losing their independence to foreign powers considering that's what republican agenda is all about. Expected something more moral from you.
Correction: That is what the American agenda is all about. I am less worried about Iran than I am about who is pulling the strings to change the laws in this country.

Why hasn't the Federal Reserve™ ever been audited?
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      11-16-2009, 09:03 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Negotiator View Post
Kind of surprising of you to talk about other countries losing their independence to foreign powers considering that's what republican agenda is all about. Expected something more moral from you.
More moral? Confused. Countries losing their independence is a republican foreign policy agenda?

The known republicans on this thread were all up in arms about abandoning our piss poor good for nothing allies like Georgia. Which had something like 2000 guys in Iraq - and then used that as leverage to try to draw us in a war with Russia? Granted, alot of retard things going on. I say piss on Georgia. Let the Russians have at it. Who gives a flying $hit what their political system is.
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      05-19-2011, 11:48 PM   #30
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Obama tells Israel: Go back to 1967 borders

What happened to Israel's security being sacrosanct?

Obama shut down Hillary Clinton's advantage in a debate with this: "I have been a stalwart friend of Israels. I think they are one of our most important allies in the region, and I think that their security is sacrosanct, and that the United States is in a special relationship with them."
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      05-19-2011, 11:55 PM   #31
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US has enough of its own problems, last thing we need is spend more money on sharks with lasers defending another country.

Poland needs to get their shit together and build a defense system of their own.
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      05-20-2011, 11:02 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
Obama tells Israel: Go back to 1967 borders

What happened to Israel's security being sacrosanct?

Obama shut down Hillary Clinton's advantage in a debate with this: "I have been a stalwart friend of Israels. I think they are one of our most important allies in the region, and I think that their security is sacrosanct, and that the United States is in a special relationship with them."


Why did you dig up THIS thread? To remind us that Obama successfully cleared up that silly tiff with the Russians that Bush started with Bush's plan to build part of the European missile defense shield in Poland? To remind us that instead of putting US soldiers into yet another country (like we aren't in enough countries already), that Obama implemented a more effective, more mobile solution by putting a sea-based system in the region?
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      05-20-2011, 12:06 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by scottwww View Post
Obama tells Israel: Go back to 1967 borders

What happened to Israel's security being sacrosanct?

Obama shut down Hillary Clinton's advantage in a debate with this: "I have been a stalwart friend of Israels. I think they are one of our most important allies in the region, and I think that their security is sacrosanct, and that the United States is in a special relationship with them."

I'm looking forward to a partisan debate between the US providing deaf, dumb, mute, blind support of whatever a foreign power demands (position coming from the right).

Or if US support of Israel will be based upon rational policy that promotes peace and is based in US national interests (Obama position).
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      05-20-2011, 01:03 PM   #34
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I haven't read up on this issue, but it brought to mind Jimmy Carter and his means of dealing with issues. I would expect that those who liked Carter policies will like this.

On the other hand, I happened to catch a little bit of the Michael Savage radio show yesterday. He was speculating that withdrawing the missile defense shield plan was in exchange for something. He explained that Israel had a meeting in Moscow the other day. He estimated that the Russians agreed to not take forcible action against Israel when Israel attacks Iran to destroy their nuclear program in exchange for not deploying the missile shield.

I don't buy it, but it is a thought.

For the most part, Obama just cozies up to the commies, so it is no surprise if he just "gives away the farm". I'll bet that Obama will start dismantling more of our nuclear warheads and probably other technologies and policies the U.S. put into place over the years. Obama is an America hater. Remember "Not God bless America. God DAMN America!" That was pounded into his feeble skull all his life.

Having said all of that, I am torn between differing ideas. I have always favored a strong America. However, we have too many entanglements with other nations. Perhaps it all needs to be reexamined. But I do not trust Mr. Obama in the slightest.
With this post, you have just lost all credibility.

Calling Obama an "America hater" puts you on par with that woman who yelled at a McCain rally that Obama is an "arab."

Living in New York, I know many Americans who have spent parts of their lives overseas, Indonesia included . Does that make them America haters, too?

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      05-20-2011, 01:39 PM   #35
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Obama got bitch-slapped for adultery with Hamas.

link
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rebuffed President Obama today over using the 1967 Israeli-Palestinian borders as a basis for a peace agreement.


Speaking after an Oval Office meeting that went nearly two hours longer than scheduled, Netanyahu said any deal "cannot go back to the 1967 lines, because these lines are indefensible, because they don't take into account certain changes that have taken place on the ground."

Between 1948 and 1967, Netanyahu said, "These were not the boundaries of peace. They were the bounds of repeated wars."

His comments represented a setback for Obama, who proposed in a speech Thursday that Israeli-Palestinian peace talks resume with the 1967 lines -- plus agreed-upon "swaps" -- forming the basis for a deal.

"Obviously, there are some differences between us, the precise formulations and language," Obama said. "That's going to happen between friends."
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      05-20-2011, 01:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
Why did you dig up THIS thread? To remind us that Obama successfully cleared up that silly tiff with the Russians that Bush started with Bush's plan to build part of the European missile defense shield in Poland? To remind us that instead of putting US soldiers into yet another country (like we aren't in enough countries already), that Obama implemented a more effective, more mobile solution by putting a sea-based system in the region?
I dug up this thread because of the thread title:

So much for standing with your allies

This thread was not limited to discussion of missiles in Poland. As you can see it had dealt with Israel along the way. It is positioned well enough for dealing with the U.S. relationship with all her allies, not limited to Europeans only.

If you want to discuss the missile shield with me, I would have to review what had happened. If you want to discuss the missile shield generally, this is a good place for it.
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      05-20-2011, 01:54 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 11Series View Post
I'm looking forward to a partisan debate between the US providing deaf, dumb, mute, blind support of whatever a foreign power demands (position coming from the right).

Or if US support of Israel will be based upon rational policy that promotes peace and is based in US national interests (Obama position).
Are you saying that it is in US national interest for Israel to be more vulnerable?

For the record, I advocate ending the Jimmy Carter administration's payments for peace to both Israel and Egypt. The US should just GTFO of paying both sides (or one side for that matter). Also, the US should not be advocating for Hamas to take land that belongs to Israel.

Who the hell was it that said, "I have been a stalwart friend of Israels. I think they are one of our most important allies in the region, and I think that their security is sacrosanct, and that the United States is in a special relationship with them."

Do you think that Obama has treated Israel's security as sacrosanct? Or do you concede that he is a liar, a fraud, and willing to say in a campaign anything that benefits himself for the moment. Naked, self-serving, idiocy. He is the liar in chief and needs to be called out.
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      05-20-2011, 01:59 PM   #38
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With this post, you have just lost all credibility.

Calling Obama an "America hater" puts you on par with that woman who yelled at a McCain rally that Obama is an "arab."

Living in New York, I know many Americans who have spent parts of their lives overseas, Indonesia included . Does that make them America haters, too?
Obama is an America hater. That conclusion has no relationship to any other person's love of country, except maybe Michelle and their Czars.
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      05-20-2011, 02:09 PM   #39
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Are you saying that it is in US national interest for Israel to be more vulnerable?

For the record, I advocate ending the Jimmy Carter administration's payments for peace to both Israel and Egypt. The US should just GTFO of paying both sides (or one side for that matter). Also, the US should not be advocating for Hamas to take land that belongs to Israel.

Who the hell was it that said, "I have been a stalwart friend of Israels. I think they are one of our most important allies in the region, and I think that their security is sacrosanct, and that the United States is in a special relationship with them."

Do you think that Obama has treated Israel's security as sacrosanct? Or do you concede that he is a liar, a fraud, and willing to say in a campaign anything that benefits himself for the moment. Naked, self-serving, idiocy. He is the liar in chief and needs to be called out.

First off, Obama isn't backing Hamas, he directly spoke out against Hamas right in yesterday's speech. So drop that stupid crap, alright?

The two state solution based on 67+swaps that Obama backs is also backed by England, Germany, Spain, the rest of the EU, Russia, China, etc. It has been the basis of negotiations since the 1980's under Rabin, Sharon, Bush, and everyone else who has ever worked on the issue. Are they all backing Hamas? No.

Stop using the issue of Israel as a naked, self-serving, idiotic partisan attack against a political opponent, and start acting like a rational human being.

Obama is acting like a rational human being who is promoting the only rational solution to the problem. He's promoting the same rational solution that has been proposed and worked on by every US President, rational Israeli leader, and rational world leader that has touched the issue of peace in the last 3 decades. There is nothing new about this position.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5162537.ece


IF NOT 67+swaps, what is YOUR solution?

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      05-20-2011, 02:14 PM   #40
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Obama is an America hater. That conclusion has no relationship to any other person's love of country, except maybe Michelle and their Czars.

These are the kinds of statements that excludes you from rational conversation. It's the same as all your stupid birther crap you spew.

Your arguments are nothing more than the arguments of an anti-Obama attack dog from the right, and they bring nothing of value to any conversation.

IF NOT 67+swaps, what is YOUR solution?

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      05-20-2011, 02:40 PM   #41
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Obama got bitch-slapped for adultery with Hamas.


link
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rebuffed President Obama today over using the 1967 Israeli-Palestinian borders as a basis for a peace agreement.


Speaking after an Oval Office meeting that went nearly two hours longer than scheduled, Netanyahu said any deal "cannot go back to the 1967 lines, because these lines are indefensible, because they don't take into account certain changes that have taken place on the ground."

Between 1948 and 1967, Netanyahu said, "These were not the boundaries of peace. They were the bounds of repeated wars."

His comments represented a setback for Obama, who proposed in a speech Thursday that Israeli-Palestinian peace talks resume with the 1967 lines -- plus agreed-upon "swaps" -- forming the basis for a deal.

"Obviously, there are some differences between us, the precise formulations and language," Obama said. "That's going to happen between friends."[/indent]

Do you even bother to read your OWN links? Your link to USA Today continues on to say about Hamas:

"Both men agreed that another pre-requisite for peace talks must be the Palestinian Authority's rejection of Hamas, which Netanyahu called "the Palestinian version of al-Qaeda." He said his counterpart in peace talks, Mahmoud Abbas, must choose between Hamas and Israel.

Obama agreed. He called it "very difficult for Israel to be expected to negotiate in a serious way with a party that refuses to recognize its right to exist."

Do you ever spent a single second of time actually thinking about the issues, instead of spending all your time trying to twist every single issue into an attack on Obama?

So much for your claim that Obama was backing Hamas. Your own link proved you wrong.

Do you even know what the position of Hamas is? You do realize that Hamas is violently opposed to peace based upon 67+swaps that Obama supports, right?

IF NOT 67+swaps, what is YOUR solution?

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      05-20-2011, 03:40 PM   #42
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Nobama is an idealistic amateur, surrounded by advisors cut from the same cloth. None of this comes as a surprise. He thinks he can earn the love of the moslem world but it won't happen.
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      05-20-2011, 06:12 PM   #43
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Do you even bother to read your OWN links? Your link to USA Today continues on to say about Hamas:

"Both men agreed that another pre-requisite for peace talks must be the Palestinian Authority's rejection of Hamas, which Netanyahu called "the Palestinian version of al-Qaeda." He said his counterpart in peace talks, Mahmoud Abbas, must choose between Hamas and Israel.

Obama agreed. He called it "very difficult for Israel to be expected to negotiate in a serious way with a party that refuses to recognize its right to exist."
I don't usually post an entire article. In this case, I did post the entire article (what it was at the time). USA Today added to their article after that. Updated at 3:28 p.m. ET
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      05-20-2011, 06:17 PM   #44
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I don't usually post an entire article. In this case, I did post the entire article (what it was at the time). USA Today added to their article after that. Updated at 3:28 p.m. ET
Great, so under the discovery of new evidence, you should feel no harm to your pride in fully retracting your false accusation of Obama backing Hamas.

Or will you double down on the idiocy like you did with Obama's birth certificate and still pound your fists and cry that Obama backs Hamas, no matter what your own link says?



IF NOT 67+swaps, what is YOUR solution?
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