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      09-16-2009, 04:02 PM   #89
chumpion
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Originally Posted by OneHump View Post
There would be a problem if it were the best feature of an M3, but it was certainly among the top two features of my IS 350.

When there's a problem is when people are too afraid of folding mirrors because it adds weight. This isn't a race car folks. In most cases it's a daily driver. For that reason, it should have amenities. I know a lot of you can't handle the extra 2 oz. of weight a backup camera will add, but it's a useful feature.

I'll bet that most of you could either stand to lose a few inches of waist line to compensate for the weight of your amenities, or perhaps washing out some of that hair gel would compensate.
Bravo! I created an account because I liked this reply so much and it's so spot on for this thread. This isnít a race car...it's a daily driver bully. I'll take my M3 out on a Sunday on some of the roads upstate, but I donít look at it as something that I need to strap into (and I drive the hell out of the thing). Sorry if that disappoints some or if I donít "get it," but that is the way it is and that is the way this car is now being marketed in the states.

That said, some of the common features that I could get on a car that is 50% of the price should be standard without exception. In my mind, this is a car that is meant to be blasted through Germany/NY/CA/etc and enjoyed in comfort. You should be smiling as you blow by Mercs and Audis trying to keep up with you. It is sophisticated and aggressive in one affordable package.

A backup camera being provided at additional cost is just cheeky and goes against that mentality.
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      09-16-2009, 06:37 PM   #90
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I may be out on a limb, but I don't view it as a status symbol at all. A 911, yes. An M3 (and only an M3), no.

Most people dont know what it is on the road and think it's a 3 and dismiss it. Those that know, know it's more than the average car. It can still have the comforts while flying under the radar.

When I see other M3's, I know the driver picked a car that is fun to drive without the flashy nature that comes with a 911.
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      09-16-2009, 06:53 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by stingray23 View Post
I too believe the M3 is NOT a track car, but a very capable DD. I guess I'm just upset with the fact that once apon a time the M3 was praised for not having a lot of trendy gizmos and was a more focused car. Now, its just a status thing more then ever. It used to be the true enthusiasts car. A lot of it has to do with BMW M division abandoning the original game plan that made the M3 an iconic car.Now there are M's for the X5 and X6. what a joke. Instead of leading the way, they are now followers. I cant tell you how much this has bothered me. It would have been much better to have a CSL M3 or a CSL version of the M6. That would have been more M than a bunch of useless SUV or whatever.
IMHO, the current M3 is truly one of the most special performance vehicles in the world today. And I'm not just saying that to satisfy myself.
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      09-16-2009, 08:37 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by chumpion View Post
I may be out on a limb, but I don't view it as a status symbol at all. A 911, yes. An M3 (and only an M3), no.

Most people dont know what it is on the road and think it's a 3 and dismiss it. Those that know, know it's more than the average car. It can still have the comforts while flying under the radar.

When I see other M3's, I know the driver picked a car that is fun to drive without the flashy nature that comes with a 911.
I agree. 3 series are a dime a dozen, and most people haven't a clue that the M badge means something more.
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      09-17-2009, 02:27 AM   #93
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As I've read through the various posts here there seems to be a few common threads:
  • The current M3 is a very good platform to "work" from
  • Some folks want a more luxury oriented form of that platform (and are okay with more weight, less focus)
  • Some folks want a more focused/hardcore version (less weight, HP bump, etc.--Technic's vision)
  • The current set of options "bundles" are crazy; something more ala carte is desired (including multiple "delete" options)--something that seems to resonate in both camps
It strikes me that with the amount of customization one can do these days (like mix/match custom-configured tennis shoes) that BMW could satisfy both camps with the same base platform. After all, the M3 is based on the 3 series. Why not extend that paradigm a bit further? That would pull in more sales while retaining the more hardcore/focused heritage while at the same time expanding to those who want a more luxury based focus. Maybe an Ml3 (l/luxury) and an Mt3 (t/track). It wouldn't take much in terms of exterior cosmetics (lowering, bumper, etc.) to differentiate the two either.

The "thin" (focused) version of the car, with BBK, exhaust, ECU, gadget delete, multiple weight delete items, might not be the CSL holy grail, but it would allow folks to get much closer to that ideal. I seriously doubt BMW is going to do a CSL about face, but this might be feasible within their current production options w/o much, if any, re-tooling or R&D.

Sales are what drives a company's decisions about future direction, so adding to the M3's sales through a more luxury oriented version, while probably distasteful to some, might be the price to pay to allow us to have the more hardcore version. BMW isn't Porsche--and their direction seems to be to expand their base. We may not like it, but that's the way it is, and I think one could argue that given their total product line it's how they will survive.

Given that, if BMW could produce a more focused version (or allow you to order it that way) would folks balk if there were a way to make it more luxury oriented as well? Would this concept just further alienate the performance enthusiasts? I can't gauge how deep the division is here--maybe it's so deep that this approach would totally alienate the "focused" camp. (I have less worry, on a gut basis, that the luxury camp would care about there being a more focused version). The answers here would be interesting in terms of the other reflection (below).

The other reflection I have is that this whole "debate" about what "M" means--how far above the rest of the base series (3, 5, 6) M sits (the 335 factor if you will), the general direction of BMW (specifically as it applies to M)--is a very big deal to the enthusiast crowd that BMW can't afford to ignore. Sticky started a similar discussion (about what M and the M3 "are") when he planned to sell his car and the thread really captivated folks. (It was on another board, don't go searching for it here, 15K+ views in a short time until closed.) And look at the view count on the "CEO...next M3...Turbo" thread! Almost 22K views.

Folks have a strong reaction about what "M" means: it's focus, far above the other models in the same series in performance, performance above luxury, and certainly NOT AN SUV (or SAV or whatever label is in this week). The enthusiast crowd, the performance oriented folks, and the cars they go for, really give luster to the entire brand. M + hardcore/performance drivers make M M--M doesn't stand on its own--it's a symbiotic relationship. That relationship puts the "Ultimate" in the Ultimate Driving Machine.

Tamper with that (e.g alienate the enthusiast crowd) and I think the sporting/performance character of the entire brand takes a hit. That's a big deal. Even if BMW goes "hybrid" or "green" keeping M M (which means retaining the folks who support to the brand) is key to in what differentiates BMW from, say, Toyota. BMW means, to many (or used to) hardcore performance. Not luxury--yes, luxury was/is part of it--but the essence and soul of BMW was/is performance. So M, and all that goes with it, and the crowd it supports, and who support it are, it would seem, rather integral to long-term success of BMW.

BMW, are you listening? If you are, and you fail to act, you do so at your own peril.

Last edited by Finnegan; 09-17-2009 at 03:03 AM.
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      09-17-2009, 09:30 AM   #94
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A BACKUP CAMERA? YOU ARE HAVING A FREAKING LAUGH

IF YOU CAN'T PARK YOUR FREAKING CAR WITHOUT A CAMERA YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN A CAR!

Next you'll want active cruise control! lol

+1 on the WTF are BMW making M versions of the X5/6

///M is about driving and motorsport. its not about anything else. Gimme the V8, gimme the MDiff, gimme MDM, gimme EDC, gimme the extra track width and the carbon fibre roof, those things should be included as the MINIMUM and thats where the spec should start.

bluetooth should be mandatory on all cars, fed up with twats driving whilst on the phone.

If you want anything else it should be an option or you should buy the 335i/335d.

Oh and yes I've got some comfort options on my M3 but I'd rather the car was stripped out to start with and you add things you want, so I'd be ticking:

Comfort seats and leather and heat
Media system including nav, premiuim audio, aux and ipod and digital radio.
folding mirrors
19inch wheels
nice shiney piano black interior
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      09-17-2009, 10:43 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneHump View Post
There would be a problem if it were the best feature of an M3, but it was certainly among the top two features of my IS 350.

When there's a problem is when people are too afraid of folding mirrors because it adds weight. This isn't a race car folks. In most cases it's a daily driver. For that reason, it should have amenities. I know a lot of you can't handle the extra 2 oz. of weight a backup camera will add, but it's a useful feature.

I'll bet that most of you could either stand to lose a few inches of waist line to compensate for the weight of your amenities, or perhaps washing out some of that hair gel would compensate.
I love my folding mirrors....
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      09-17-2009, 11:33 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil McRae View Post
A BACKUP CAMERA? YOU ARE HAVING A FREAKING LAUGH

IF YOU CAN'T PARK YOUR FREAKING CAR WITHOUT A CAMERA YOU SHOULDN'T BE IN A CAR!

Next you'll want active cruise control! lol
Based on your thought process, BMW should provide a crank out on the grill so you can start your car. I mean, really, if you can't start your car you shouldn't be in one.

I don't recall saying that a backup camera is needed to park. What I recall saying is that it allows you to fit into tighter spaces. While you're looking for your next $2,000 ceramic exhaust mod, I'm simply asking for a $50 upgrade that actually has some practical function.

There's something about this whole reply that reminds me about this joke I've heard about BMWs. It had to do with the difference between BMWs and Porcupines.
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      09-17-2009, 12:01 PM   #97
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comfort access should be standard, even the damn nissan sentra has it...
+ ipod port


also i weep when i get into my family accord sedan, after you buy the nav you get everything else standard, heated seats, upgraded system, heated mirrors

also i think the driver aids should be standard, as they can always be turned off
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      09-17-2009, 12:07 PM   #98
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      09-18-2009, 11:26 AM   #99
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Quote:
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-1 on the Brembo brakes...who cares about expensive bling, make it an option for anyone who wants to track their car.
Add options for lightweight seats, manual mirrors, and lightweight exhaust.
F-ck these are exactly the options I was gonna suggest!
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      09-18-2009, 12:01 PM   #100
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I have no problem with having to buy options. That is why they're called options. Porsche is even worse.

But even some of the most rudimentary sports cars have HUD, or the option of having it. This is a safety feature and should be included as an option. Kinds BS that is not.

You people have to understand, if the options are standard, the price of the car will rise commensurately.
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      09-18-2009, 12:22 PM   #101
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I'd change the steering wheel a bit. Heated (Live in Canada) and all the buttons on the steering wheel should be for driving functions, not radio and other bs.
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      09-18-2009, 12:27 PM   #102
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MDM as standard.
+1. It is ridiculous that it is part of $3250 package
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      09-18-2009, 03:29 PM   #103
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+1. It is ridiculous that it is part of $3250 package
I agree, MDM SHOULD be standard!
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      09-18-2009, 05:55 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by chumpion View Post
I may be out on a limb, but I don't view it as a status symbol at all. A 911, yes. An M3 (and only an M3), no.

Most people dont know what it is on the road and think it's a 3 and dismiss it. Those that know, know it's more than the average car. It can still have the comforts while flying under the radar.

When I see other M3's, I know the driver picked a car that is fun to drive without the flashy nature that comes with a 911.
I don't know abouy NY, but in Cali, EVERYONE know's what an M3 is, and knows is a pretty special car. IMO, it gets too much attention for a $70k car since there are a ton of $150k cars. 911's are also a dime a dozen out here and don't get any attention until you get a turbo or a GT3.

Even when we were in Vegas, the M3 got a lot of attention in the parking lot or Valet by people who were just walking by or waiting for their car.

I think part of the attraction is it's just a little out of reach for many, but still something many people can dream about realistically owning some day. I don't think it's a status symbol, but there are a LOT of people who buy it just because it's an M, but have no idea what an //M is suppose to represent.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      09-19-2009, 01:34 PM   #105
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      09-19-2009, 02:04 PM   #106
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Wish there was a backup camera, with two baby seats in the back it's hard to see.
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      10-12-2009, 02:57 AM   #107
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Here in India the M3 comes pretty much loaded. It would have been nice if we could spec a HUD, climate comfort windscreen (it's hot here, year 'round) and perhaps cooled seats (not sure I'd pay extra for them, but options are always good). The air conditioning in the M3 is sub-standard as far as Indian temperatures are concerned.

Quote:
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Don't judge others because they use the car for something different or have different expectations.
This is the smartest thing I've read in this entire thread. We all love our cars for different reasons. I can't bear when people think they have the right to tell someone else why they should or shouldn't buy a car. Why you buy it and what you expect from it is your look out.

For instance, I paid MORE for my car here than a 911 S, because I did NOT want a flashy car and I like the fact that most people here don't give my car a second look. In India the M3 costs what a F430 costs in the U.S. and people make all sorts of assumptions about you based on what car you drive. The anonymity, every day usability (on crap roads) and overall performance / practicality balance the M3 afforded was a big plus for me.
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      10-12-2009, 03:02 AM   #108
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a german chick



or a group of them.

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      10-12-2009, 07:11 AM   #109
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folding mirrors a must
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      10-12-2009, 07:12 AM   #110
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a german chick



or a group of them.

i agree a whole bunch of them
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