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      09-07-2009, 10:02 PM   #1
bayerische009
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BMWNA racist?

No fan of Jesse Jackson but this reads uber sketchy on BMW's part. I understand the purely demographic part of it but I know many blacks that roll BMW's and MINI's...

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BMW KEEPS CERTAIN ADS FROM BLACK MEDIA: And Rev. Jesse Jackson is on the case.

*Rev. Jesse Jackson is trying to figure out why BMW issued a "Non Urban Dictate (NUD)" (a.k.a. no ad spots in urban media) for an upcoming advertising campaign surrounding one of its vehicle brands.

The Westside Gazette is reporting that the civil rights leader sent a letter to the automaker expressing concern over the NUD stamp on future ads touting the MINI Cooper.

NUD basically means that a company does not want their marketing and advertising materials placed in media outlets that target urban (African American) audiences. Tom Joyner spoke out about the practice on his radio show in 2004, when CompUSA was discovered using it. At the time, he called out more than 20 other companies who had a NUD policy in effect – including Lexus, Starbucks, Ethan Allan, Northwest Airlines and even Life Savers.

In his letter to BMW Chairman and CEO Jim O’ Donnell, Jackson called the exclusion of urban radio stations "disturbing," according to The Westside Gazette. His letter further stated: “This issue, along with many others, continues to boycott communities of color and excludes us from participating on a level economic playing field even when we fully embrace and purchase your vehicles.”

Jackson also questioned BMW’s commitment to diversity by claiming the company ignored earlier Rainbow PUSH requests for information and participation in discussions.

“Because diversity and inclusion are so important to the automotive industry, each year Rainbow PUSH Automotive Project hosts a symposium whose mission and programs include a multitude of topics on diversity,” wrote Jackson. “The symposium’s purpose is to facilitate substantive dialogue, open communication on diversity opportunities and to prevent this type of behavior recently demonstrated by BMW.

"However, you have repeatedly declined to participate in these dialogues. This speaks to your lack of transparency of your business practices as they relate to diversity.”

Jackson's letter comes on the heels of similar correspondence sent to BMW’s O’Donnell from the National Association of Black Owned Broadcasters (NABOB) requesting a meeting to discuss “a corporate culture that condones discriminatory practices.”

Both NABOB and Rainbow PUSH have questioned the role of BMW’s African-American ad agency of record, The Matlock Group, and whether it was using the expertise of the agency to avoid the exclusion of urban radio stations and other African-American media outlets in the placement of advertising.

Thus far, both organizations say they are still awaiting a response from BMW executives.
http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur55687.cfm
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      09-07-2009, 10:15 PM   #2
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Advertising strategy, they are spending money where buyers of their products will see their ads.

Jesse Jackson needs to shut the f*ck up.
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      09-07-2009, 10:28 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask View Post
Advertising strategy, they are spending money where buyers of their products will see their ads.

Jesse Jackson needs to shut the f*ck up.
+1
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      09-07-2009, 10:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Bryan0102 View Post
+1.

The majority of blacks are lower income. racist =/= fact
While that is basically true, I'd love to see the actual distribution of it. The median out of 14,000 African American homes is about $30,000 while the white median is around $50,000. There are significantly more datapoints for the whites than blacks, though. I find that interesting; I wonder why?
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      09-07-2009, 10:41 PM   #5
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If we didnt have the likes of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and all that crap, we wouldnt have racism anymore. They have jobs to promote it, to say they are being held down.

My theory: You cant clain racism anymore. Black's rule sports, our PRESIDENT is Black, we have Black Supreme Court Justices, I mean cmon, can there be racism anymore?
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      09-07-2009, 10:41 PM   #6
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Even if you take income out of the equation, generally speaking black males (particularly in urban areas) are not interested in small cars like the Mini that could be considered less then masculine, I personally like the MCS...but I am not a black urban dweller.
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      09-07-2009, 10:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan0102 View Post
+1.

The majority of blacks are lower income. racist =/= fact
Blatant ignorance, institutionalized racism and stigmatization if I've ever read it. A more appropriate way to have addressed that would have been to say a "'disproportionate' number of blacks are lower income". Seeing as you're from Orange County perhaps I shouldn't be surprised you'd make that sort of comment.

Funny enough both BMW and MINI have quite a few black customers not to mention employees. How do I know? I've both seen and met them.
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      09-07-2009, 10:47 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dackz View Post
If we didnt have the likes of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the NAACP and all that crap, we wouldnt have racism anymore. They have jobs to promote it, to say they are being held down.

My theory: You cant clain racism anymore. Black's rule sports, our PRESIDENT is Black, we have Black Supreme Court Justices, I mean cmon, can there be racism anymore?
B.S. You must be one of these individuals that thinks racism and black history are bunk. An undercover bigot. How do you explain recent build up in activity of the militia in response to fear of Obama (carrying the banner for all blacks, of course) "taking" their country away from white America? How do explain nooses being found in lockers of black students days after the previous presidential election? How do you explain the neo-nazi's busted for a plot to assassinate random blacks and ultimately Obama? It must all have been in the name of love.
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      09-07-2009, 10:55 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask View Post
Even if you take income out of the equation, generally speaking black males (particularly in urban areas) are not interested in small cars like the Mini that could be considered less then masculine, I personally like the MCS...but I am not a black urban dweller.
Do your research before making stupid ass comments like this one. Here, I'll give you a little help:

http://www.motoringfile.com/

http://northamericanmotoring.com/
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      09-07-2009, 10:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bayerische009 View Post
Do your research before making stupid ass comments like this one. Here, I'll give you a little help:

http://www.motoringfile.com/

http://northamericanmotoring.com/
WTF do those links have to do with my comment?
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      09-07-2009, 11:01 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask View Post
WTF do those links have to do with my comment?
I guess you have no idea what "research" means. If you look enough around both sites you'll discover those black male MINI owners you so quickly wrote off in your above display of ignorance.
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      09-07-2009, 11:09 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by bayerische009 View Post
I guess you have no idea what "research" means. If you look enough around both sites you'll discover those black male MINI owners you so quickly wrote off in your above display of ignorance.
I would trust the research done by BMW on their target audience far more then I would trust anecdotal information on the internet. The silent majority of people (in this case of a particular race, living in a particular area) are NOT ON A MINI ENTHUSIAST SITE, or going to Mini meets. Do we know where all of these people live?

Why shouldn't a company be allowed to spend their advertising dollars how they feel it would be most beneficial to them based on their research?
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      09-07-2009, 11:16 PM   #13
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Why shouldn't a company be allowed to spend their advertising dollars how they feel it would be most beneficial to them based on their research?
And discriminate in the process. Perfectly acceptable and probably the preference of many good ol' boy managed corporations in America. Fact is black's are far from the only demographic listening to "urban radio". Something tells me some of you have probably not known much more about any black person or people beyond what you read in news periodicals and see and T.V. Yeah, racism has damn near evaporated into the dustbin of history.
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      09-07-2009, 11:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask View Post
Why shouldn't a company be allowed to spend their advertising dollars how they feel it would be most beneficial to them based on their research?
+1,000,000

If that segment of the market was going to make them enough additional money to justify the expenditure, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Since when did being in a particular advertising market become an inalienable right?

Now, if BMW told their dealerships to refuse sales assistance to a particular ethnic group, or refuse financing on the basis of race, then by all means cry racism - until then, STFU.
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      09-07-2009, 11:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by bayerische009 View Post
B.S. You must be one of these individuals that thinks racism and black history are bunk. An undercover bigot. How do you explain recent build up in activity of the militia in response to fear of Obama (carrying the banner for all blacks, of course) "taking" their country away from white America? How do explain nooses being found in lockers of black students days after the previous presidential election? How do you explain the neo-nazi's busted for a plot to assassinate random blacks and ultimately Obama? It must all have been in the name of love.
There will always be your crazy sects. As a whole, its not need anymore. Jesse Jackson and the like NEED these nuts to keep their paychecks going. Seriously, you dont hear about him until he thinks something is racist.

I think its racist that they have BET and Miss Black America pageants. And yes, I think Black history is bunk. Isnt it "HISTORY?" The fact we categorize it makes it racially biased. Its history, and until its looked at as a WHOLE of HISTORY and not just BLACK history, there will always be racism.
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      09-07-2009, 11:23 PM   #16
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Umm, now that I think about it....BMW is correct in their advertising. I dont think Black people even like BMW's??? When was the last time you really saw a black person driving one, I mean, in general?? I mean, when I am in Denver, I see them driving Caddy's, Dodge chargers, magnums, Hummers, larger cars.

Im not being racist at all, stereotyping totally here. I really havent seen it, I mean there isnt a super large Black population in my area's but I dont see them driving German cars anyways????
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      09-07-2009, 11:23 PM   #17
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I think its racist that they have BET and Miss Black America pageants. And yes, I think Black history is bunk. Isnt it "HISTORY?" The fact we categorize it makes it racially biased. Its history, and until its looked at as a WHOLE of HISTORY and not just BLACK history, there will always be racism.
Let me ask you this, who are all the pretty boys in mainstream media? Who are all the main characters in movies and T.V. shows on mainstream television and film? Why, they're all White. So yeah, it makes perfect sense a business minded, wealthy Black entrepreneur would create a television station that would address the needs of his community, because obviously they weren't given much consideration elsewhere. That my friend was in response to the disenfranchisement and social castigation experience by not only Blacks but other members of the minority community. Nice job on trying to make Blacks look like the bad guys.
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      09-07-2009, 11:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by taliesen View Post
+1,000,000

If that segment of the market was going to make them enough additional money to justify the expenditure, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Since when did being in a particular advertising market become an inalienable right?

Now, if BMW told their dealerships to refuse sales assistance to a particular ethnic group, or refuse financing on the basis of race, then by all means cry racism - until then, STFU.
+1
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      09-07-2009, 11:27 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by bayerische009 View Post
And discriminate in the process. Perfectly acceptable and probably the preference of many good ol' boy managed corporations in America. Fact is black's are far from the only demographic listening to "urban radio". Something tells me some of you have probably not known much more about any black person or people beyond what you read in news periodicals and see and T.V. Yeah, racism has damn near evaporated into the dustbin of history.
If you want to be offended on behalf of a bunch of people who don't give a sh*t go right ahead...Jesse Jackson has made a career out of it.

Using your logic Subaru should be forced to have a NASCAR team, because they are discriminating if they don't. Toyota should be forced to buy ad space for the Prius in Guns and Ammo.

Get real, try to think a little bit before you force yourself to get offended.
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      09-07-2009, 11:27 PM   #20
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Nice job on trying to make them look like the saviors - look, just because they come right out and say that something is 'black only' doesn't make it any more right than the 'unspoken' way it has been done in the past (and to a lesser extent today).

Maybe if the minority pretty boys would pull their pants up, wear their hats straight, and speak properly, then they'd be more accepted in more communities, and television would show more of them.
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      09-07-2009, 11:32 PM   #21
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ohhh god here we go listen guys neither one of you can win this one. BMW can colorblind and then pry the eyes out of their researchers and just have computers do sales data and interest based on area and when it spits out information that tells them to focus on certain areas over others there will always be those that can challenge it based upon the demographic of the areas deemed to not be targeted. the statistics show these areas aren't big mini buyers but they also show these areas are disproportionately of one race and then activists cry foul. I understand all the arguments for the latter position and how the situation has been very true in the past. But, let's face it. BMW is a very sophisticated company and I doubt they would be racist intentionally or even unintentionally. The only color that matters is the color of money, the green. Nobody cries foul like this when there are Spanish advertisements for American brands in heavily hispanic areas or because there are more BET billboards in predominantly African-American communities. Companies target certain ads to certain demographics all the time, it's good business, most companies also try to cater ads to different targets to attract buyers of various backgrounds, races, ethnicities, education, and on and on and on. Sometimes, when companies have had statistically dismal sales in certain areas, they choose to end those ad campaigns or not to fund any more of them. I guess BMW could have been more sensitive in the way they did this but come on people, can't we let statistics guide rational business decisions.

What really gets to me about these types of complaints is that the fire just keeps getting fueled. It reminds me of the Professor Gates/ Obama/ policeman meeting. People crying this way and that about him being discriminated against because of his race. You know what really pissed me off. The cop deprived him of his own property rights in his own home. That to me is worse than any racial violation can ever be. That's what the cop should really be apologizing for, that totally appalled me. Anyway, can we please just let the market takeover. The market is blind to all colors but one, green. Let its forces take over and see what happens. It's horrible business to discriminate for any reason, never mind immoral, hateful and just downright wrong. In a perfect market things like race of customers would be totally irrelevant.

End Rant.
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      09-07-2009, 11:38 PM   #22
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I don't see anything wrong in realizing that a majority of a certain group of people just wont be interested in a certain product. Would you try to sell handbags to men?
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