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      09-08-2009, 10:23 PM   #45
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And if the senate doesnt act accordingly? Then what? Is there any politician that does what he is suppose to? I hate politics. I shouldnt even know who the president is. He should just be some guy that makes sure all my rights are managed properly.

Go to work, pay my bills, do what I want to myself without hurting others and thats it. No one should decide my healthcare or anything else............damn it, I started to rant.
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      09-08-2009, 10:36 PM   #46
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And if the senate doesnt act accordingly? Then what? Is there any politician that does what he is suppose to? I hate politics. I shouldnt even know who the president is. He should just be some guy that makes sure all my rights are managed properly.

Go to work, pay my bills, do what I want to myself without hurting others and thats it. No one should decide my healthcare or anything else............damn it, I started to rant.
Then we can elect new members of the Senate. In the end, it is up to the voters.
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      09-08-2009, 10:44 PM   #47
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Then we can elect new members of the Senate. In the end, it is up to the voters.
We should only have to vote on proper candidates. We should not have to wait until whenever the election is......then make sure that all the millions of people know the truth......fighting against all the propaganda.....just to get an official who belongs in office.

If an official goes against the rules he should be out, immediately.
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      09-08-2009, 10:44 PM   #48
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What do think a court could do? Remove him from office? Sorry but that is a job the Constitution gives ONLY to the Senate.
It is a difficult situation. It should have been settled before the guy was able to accept his party's nomination. But the courts at time (with McCain - not sure about Obama) said that the time to address it would be after the election when a party would have standing. The public itself has no standing. But an opposing party's candidate may.

Alan Keyes is one candidate who may be able to show standing. But with our crazy mixed up hodge podge of injustice and cronyism no amount of standing will get this thing done. What would get something done would be an uprising of the people, like "The peasants are revolting!"

Some great things start with just a little tea party.
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      09-08-2009, 10:58 PM   #49
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why wont they just release his real orginal birth certificate?
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      09-08-2009, 11:01 PM   #50
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why wont they just release his real orginal birth certificate?
lol. Thats the whole point.....they wont. Sounds suspicious doesnt it?
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      09-08-2009, 11:05 PM   #51
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It is a difficult situation. It should have been settled before the guy was able to accept his party's nomination. But the courts at time (with McCain - not sure about Obama) said that the time to address it would be after the election when a party would have standing. The public itself has no standing. But an opposing party's candidate may.

Alan Keyes is one candidate who may be able to show standing. But with our crazy mixed up hodge podge of injustice and cronyism no amount of standing will get this thing done. What would get something done would be an uprising of the people, like "The peasants are revolting!"

Some great things start with just a little tea party.
It is NOT a legal issue. It is a POLITICAL issue. The courts have no role to play. If you do not believe a candidate is qualified, don't vote for him. Why would you want or need a judge to be involved.
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      09-08-2009, 11:08 PM   #52
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It is NOT a legal issue. It is a POLITICAL issue. The courts have no role to play. If you do not believe a candidate is qualified, don't vote for him. Why would you want or need a judge to be involved.
You need a judge or some type of arbitrator when the candidate lies. How is the average citizen suppose to verify his citizenship? Most dont even consider that. Going against the constitution is definitely an issue whether legal or political makes no difference. Its the foundation of this country. There are times when the system is so corrupt that voting doesnt work. Those times are referred to as revolutions.
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      09-08-2009, 11:11 PM   #53
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You need a judge or some type of arbitrator when the candidate lies. How is the average citizen suppose to verify his citizenship? Most dont even consider that. Going against the constitution is definitely an issue whether legal or political makes no difference. Its the foundation of this country. There are times when the system is so corrupt that voting doesnt work. Those times are referred to as revolutions.
What? Now you need a judge between you and your candidate? That is sad. If you cannot properly evaluate candidates, don't vote.

The Constitution empowers you and me to evaluate candidates, not judges.
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      09-08-2009, 11:14 PM   #54
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What? Now you need a judge between you and your candidate? That is sad. If you cannot properly evaluate candidates, don't vote.

The Constitution empowers you and me to evaluate candidates, not judges.
No, I need the constitution between me and the candidate. A bunch of uneducated people POSSIBLY voted for someone thats ineligible. Thats not my fault. If my candidate lost fairly then so be it, but the candidate is not qualified that changes things.

And how can we evaluate the candidate when they dont provide their birth certificate. The government is allowing this to go on.

I should not have to check on the judges and police and presidents etc myself. If they are in that position to be voted on then someone should have already checked their qualifications. The politicians failed to verify obamas info or covered it up. Either way its not the citizens fault that our leaders are not doing their job.
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      09-08-2009, 11:20 PM   #55
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No, I need the constitution between me and the candidate. A bunch of uneducated people POSSIBLY voted for some thats ineligible. Thats not my fault. If my candidate lost fairly then so be it, but the candidate is not qualified that changes things.

And how can we evaluate the candidate when they dont provide their birth certificate. The government is allowing this to go on.
OMG... If the voters are incapable of making this determination, then we are no longer capable of self government.

He DID present a birth certificate. The document he provided is what Hawaii issues to prove that a person was born there. The fact that they call it a "Certificate of Live Birth" is irrelevant. It is a legal document that clearly states he was born in the US. End of Story!!
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      09-08-2009, 11:20 PM   #56
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What?! Thats the evidence, lol. Come on now. Case not closed man. Presidents can be impeached, are you serious? A public voting when they dont have all the facts is not right.

See my point stands. There is no evidence presented to the citizens of this country that obama is legitimate. Election results are not evidence or proof.
Obama produced the ONLY legal and lawful public record that Hawaii's computerized system now produces for public proof of birth within that state.

When Hawaii joined the rest of the world in computerizing their paper records, lawmakers said Hawaii SHALL provide the computer-generated document that has been provided to the public instead of the original or copy of the paper original.

So when you say Obama has produced no evidence, you are dead wrong. In fact Obama has produced THE authoritive piece of evidence that Hawaii law mandates. The fact that YOU reject Hawaii law and wish to substitute your own reality doesn't change the fact that Obama already met exactly 100% of his burden.

The truth is that even if God himself came down and played his home movies of Obama being born in Hawaii, there would be a group of Birthers who would deny their own eyes the truth.

The Birthers aren't asking just for a birth certificate. They have a whole laundry list of garbage they are asking for. And frankly, I don't trust what they would do with the laundry list if they got it, considering what they've already done to slander and lie. The only way to deal with people like this are to lock them out 100%. Any toe hold they get they will exploit.

Once Obama published Hawaii's ONLY lawful document certifying his birth (along with sworn written testimony that it was valid as so was the original) and the Birthers STILL came back requesting a long laundry list of junk, the only choice Obama had was to chop these nutters off at the nuts.

They already have received more than ample lawful proof that would be more than adequate in any court of law to prove Obama's eligiblity. The fact that they rejected this lawful proof is EXACTLY why Obama must cut them off completely. Since they rejected the lawful proof, they have shown that no further proof will ever satisfy these people. So that is exactly what they should get. No further proof. No nothing.
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      09-08-2009, 11:23 PM   #57
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OMG... If the voters are incapable of making this determination, then we are no longer capable of self government.

He DID present a birth certificate. The document he provided is what Hawaii issues to prove that a person was born there. The fact that they call it a "Certificate of Live Birth" is irrelevant. It is a legal document that clearly states he was born in the US. End of Story!!
Wrong wrong wrong. Hawaii gave out certificate of lives birth to ANY child regardless of what country they were born in. You need to check your facts. A COLB just stated that a child was there, not where he was born. lol Any child including foreigners could get a colb.

Anybody can get a colb from that time. It is not proof in anyway that he was born there. If he was born there, then there is no reason to spend 1 MILLION dollars hiding the birth certificate.
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      09-08-2009, 11:23 PM   #58
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What? Now you need a judge between you and your candidate? That is sad. If you cannot properly evaluate candidates, don't vote.

The Constitution empowers you and me to evaluate candidates, not judges.
There were many who failed.
  • The popular press utterly failed to treat the matter respectfully.
  • The schools failed to educate the populace about the constitutional requirement.
  • The populace failed to care.
  • The political parties failed to properly qualify their candidates.
  • The US Senate failed to consider the most basic qualifications.
  • The lower courts failed to see the voter has standing in the case.
  • The electoral college failed to consider Constitutional qualifications.
  • The Chief Justice of the Supreme Court failed to consider the Constitutional qualifications before the swearing in ceremony.
  • And finally, the candidate, nominee, president elect, and president failed to produce satisfactory evidence to support him.
It is one big, miserable failure. No solution will come easy. Ignoring it further will not change the fact of the failure.

Time for a tea party?
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      09-08-2009, 11:27 PM   #59
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They already have received more than ample lawful proof
Did you just call a COLB "more than ample lawful proof"? One paper which does not verify the country of birth or even the doctors name or hospital is not ample proof. Our definitions of ample proof are way way different.
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      09-08-2009, 11:45 PM   #60
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Did you just call a COLB "more than ample lawful proof"? One paper which does not verify the country of birth or even the doctors name or hospital is not ample proof. Our definitions of ample proof are way way different.
It is clear from your post that you have not even seen the document, so I'm not surprised you don't find a document you have never seen to be "ample proof".

Here it is. Unless you think there is another city named Honolulu on the island of Oahu, in the county of Honolulu, this document most certainly DOES idenify his place of birth to be in the United States.

And yes, this same DOCUMENT can be used by Hawaiians to document the birth of their children when the mother happens to be overseas, but that is not how this document was used in this case. In this case is was used for a Hawaii birth. As shown on the document. But don't believe me, listen to an actual official from the state of Hawaii:

"And, as Janice Okubo, director of communications for the Hawaii Department of Health, explains, no-one who was born abroad could get a certificate saying they were born in Hawaii.

"If you were born in Bali, for example," Ms Okubo told the Washington Independent, "you could get a certificate from the state of Hawaii saying you were born in Bali. You could not get a certificate saying you were born in Honolulu. The state has to verify a fact like that for it to appear on the certificate." "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8171314.stm
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      09-08-2009, 11:52 PM   #61
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Like it or not, this case is not dead. It's just getting interesting.







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      09-09-2009, 12:03 AM   #62
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The silliest part of all this is that not only has Obama provided 100% of the proof he needs to show he was born in Hawaii, he doesn't even NEED to prove that.

The Supreme Court has already spoken on the definition of "Natural-Born Citizen" in a case unrelated to the Presidency. The operative part is where the court issued their opinion on what the definition means:

from FindLaw: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...=169&invol=649

"The constitution of the United States, as originally adopted, uses the words 'citizen of the United States' and 'natural-born citizen of the United States.' ... and 'no person except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this constitution, shall be eligible to the office of president.' Article 2, 1. ....

The constitution nowhere defines the meaning of these words, either by way of inclusion or of exclusion ... In this, as in other respects, it must be interpreted in the light of the common law, the principles and history of which were familiarly known to the framers of the constitution...

The interpretation of the constitution of the United States is necessarily influenced by the fact that its provisions are framed in the language of the English common law, and are to be read in the light of its history.'...

II. The fundamental principle of the common law with regard to English nationality was birth within the allegiance-also called 'ligealty,' 'obedience,' 'faith,' or 'power'-of the king. The principle embraced all persons born within the king's allegiance, and subject to his protection. Such allegiance and protection were mutual,-as expressed in the maxim, 'Protectio trahit subjectionem, et subjectio protectionem,'-and were not restricted to natural-born subjects and naturalized subjects, or to those who had taken an oath of allegiance; but were predicable of aliens in amity, so long as they were within the kingdom. Children, born in England, of such aliens, were therefore natural-born subjects. But the children, born within the realm, of foreign ambassadors, or the children of alien enemies, born during and within their hostile occupation of part of the king's dominions, were not natural-born subjects, because not born within the allegiance, the obedience, or the power, or, as would be said at this day, within the jurisdiction, of the king....

It thus clearly appears that by the law of England for the last three centuries, beginning before the settlement of this country, and continuing to the present day, aliens, while residing in the dominions possessed by the crown of England, were within the allegiance, the obedience, the faith or loyalty, the protection, the power, and the jurisdiction of the English sovereign; and therefore every child born in England of alien parents was a natural-born subject, unless the child of an ambassador or other diplomatic agent of a foreign state, or of an alien enemy in hostile occupation of the place where the child was born...



'It is universally admitted, both in the English courts and in those of our own country, that all persons born within the colonies of North America, while subject to the crown of Great Britain, were natural-born British subjects.'"





Whether you are convinced by the lawful records of Hawaii that Obama was born in Hawaii or not, it doesn't matter. The Supreme Court has already addressed the definition of "Natural Born Citizen, and unless you can prove that Obama's father was an ambassador of a foreign state, or that Kenya was in hostile occupation of Hawaii, you are completely and utterly out of gas.
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      09-09-2009, 12:05 AM   #63
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Oh man thats funny Nixon! You just showed the fake COLB. They did not use the word "African" in the 60's they used the word "Negro". You showed me a fake COLB and want to use that as proof of the president. Surely you can do better.

Theres also the birth certificate from kenya. The fact that his grandmother said she was at the birth in kenya. The fact that kenya made a plaque in the hospital and a holiday celebrating that obama was born there. And what proof does he have for his american birth........a colb......lol.

His father was a foreigner and his mother was too young to give her citizenship to the child. Even if he was born in hawaii, he is not natural born. Sorry.
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      09-09-2009, 12:06 AM   #64
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Gee, the same person who presented a proven forgery to the court once before submits yet another forgery.

Not interesting at all.


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Like it or not, this case is not dead. It's just getting interesting.
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      09-09-2009, 12:14 AM   #65
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Oh man thats funny Nixon! You just showed the fake COLB. They did not use the word "African" in the 60's they used the word "Negro". You showed me a fake COLB and want to use that as proof of the president. Surely you can do better.

Theres also the birth certificate from kenya. The fact that his grandmother said she was at the birth in kenya. The fact that kenya made a plaque in the hospital and a holiday celebrating that obama was born there. And what proof does he have for his american birth........a colb......lol.
Man, you are a complete nutter. No, the certificate of live birth is NOT A COPY of the original. When Hawaii computerized their records, they most certainly did drop objectionable terms like "Negro" from the computer generated forms they now produce out of their database.

This is called "data norming" and is nothing surprising at all, nor does it invalidate the certificate.

This is the real thing, as has been certified over and over.

The fact that you don't accept it as valid is exactly why you should get NOTHING more. If you can't accept 100% valid documents, and instead twist them around into something they are not, producing the long laundry list of documents that are being requested will only give you more stuff to twist up and screw up.
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      09-09-2009, 12:18 AM   #66
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Man, you are a complete nutter. No, the certificate of live birth is NOT A COPY of the original. When Hawaii computerized their records, they most certainly did drop objectionable terms like "Negro" from the computer generated forms they now produce out of their database.

This is called "data norming" and is nothing surprising at all, nor does it invalidate the certificate.

This is the real thing, as has been certified over and over.

The fact that you don't accept it as valid is exactly why you should get NOTHING more. If you can't accept 100% valid documents, and instead twist them around into something they are not, producing the long laundry list of documents that are being requested will only give you more stuff to twist up and screw up.
Actually my original concern was that the president spent 1 million dollars to keep his birth certificate hidden. Why wont he release his birth certificate and college records and passport info? He choose to run for president so his life is no longer private. We have a right to know who is running the country. It doesnt matter where he was born, he HAS covered up his documents and that makes no sense.

And im not sure what the name calling was about, but that was rude. If you are fine with a president who hides his records and only releases a colb, then thats fine. Im not a blind follower however. Every other president has released their info, obama has not. You cannot dispute that, sorry.

You have not provided proof of the hospital he was born in, or the doctor, or given explanation for his grandmother and the government in kenya. You have resorted to name calling. Classy.

And you want me to believe a colb that by your own admission has been altered by a computer....thats funny. A computer generated document. Yeah, those cant be faked.
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