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      03-09-2010, 07:45 PM   #287
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Chris,
Any thoughts?


Will the rear OEM 18s clear the front AP BBK with out a spacer?
18x9.5 et23.
Im will most likely get style 260, not style 219(EU VS NA), so it might have a touch more clearance, if any at all.
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      03-09-2010, 07:51 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robwe46m3 View Post
So there are more E9x owners that choose AP over Brembo? Are AP cheaper?
Brembo 365/355 list prices -- Front: US$3995.00, Rear: US$3295.00. All four wheels: US$7290.00. Brembo kits use standard floating discs assemblies.

AP Racing 368/356 list prices -- Front: US$3945.75, Rear: US$3349.75. All four wheels: US$7295.50. The AP system uses a strap drive front disc assemblies.

I'm sure people can to better on either when shopping around, but that is what the price lists say.

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      03-09-2010, 08:58 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
Chris,
Any thoughts?


Will the rear OEM 18s clear the front AP BBK with out a spacer?
18x9.5 et23.
Im will most likely get style 260, not style 219(EU VS NA), so it might have a touch more clearance, if any at all.
I have not had a chance to check that one. We have a car coming into our shop next week, but it has OE 19's. I'll see if I can find a rear 18" locally before it gets here.

The front 18" wheel that fits the 368mm kit without a spacer is a Euro model non-run flat version. It looks the same, but is made by a different supplier. I don't even know if the N.A. dealers can get this P/N, but I can check with my local BMW parts counter guru tomorrow if you are interested. If it is at all possible, he seems to be able to find a way to get it done.

While I generally don't like spacers, I would definitely consider 5mm or less for winter wheels a reasonable exception. That is -- IF -- it were a quality, flat and parallel spacer, not one of those crappy cast aluminum ones that most tire stores seem to have on hand. For track use, I suggest choosing a wheel that works without a spacer.

Chris
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      03-09-2010, 09:20 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP Racing - Chris_B View Post
I have not had a chance to check that one. We have a car coming into our shop next week, but it has OE 19's. I'll see if I can find a rear 18" locally before it gets here.

The front 18" wheel that fits the 368mm kit without a spacer is a Euro model non-run flat version. It looks the same, but is made by a different supplier. I don't even know if the N.A. dealers can get this P/N, but I can check with my local BMW parts counter guru tomorrow if you are interested. If it is at all possible, he seems to be able to find a way to get it done.

While I generally don't like spacers, I would definitely consider 5mm or less for winter wheels a reasonable exception. That is -- IF -- it were a quality, flat and parallel spacer, not one of those crappy cast aluminum ones that most tire stores seem to have on hand. For track use, I suggest choosing a wheel that works without a spacer.

Chris
European ones are style 260
Part numbers are:
36102283750, fronts
36102283751, rears

The rears are 18x9.5 with a et23, so I think they should clear the front AP brakes.
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      03-10-2010, 01:17 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
European ones are style 260
Part numbers are:
36102283750, fronts
36102283751, rears

The rears are 18x9.5 with a et23, so I think they should clear the front AP brakes.
The North American Style 219 8.5" Fronts require a 10mm spacer (minimum) to clear the AP front kit.

The Style 219 North American rims have a slightly smaller barrel than the Euro Style 260 rims. My opinion is that it's because the NA rims have to accommodate the TPMS sensor, while the Euro rims don't.

For those of you who are interested, North American 18" Style 219 9.5" Rears will fit both front and rear without spacers.
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      03-10-2010, 07:30 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
The North American Style 219 8.5" Fronts require a 10mm spacer (minimum) to clear the AP front kit.

The Style 219 North American rims have a slightly smaller barrel than the Euro Style 260 rims. My opinion is that it's because the NA rims have to accommodate the TPMS sensor, while the Euro rims don't.

For those of you who are interested, North American 18" Style 219 9.5" Rears will fit both front and rear without spacers.
Most of what you state is correct, but the real reason the Style 219 wheel doesn't fit (without spacers), is not due to TPMS concerns.

The AP Engineers in the UK designed the AP Racing BBK for the E9x M3 (sold by STILLEN here in the U.S. market) around the Euro-spec Style 260 18" OEM wheels. They fit the E9x M3 18x8.5" OEM front wheels without spacers.

The only problem is...the UK engineers didn't realize (until late last year) that BMW actually built the 18" OEM wheels with 2 different wheel specifications for different world markets. (Style 219 & Style 260)

The AP Racing BBK is built to fit the Style 260 18x8.5 OEM front wheels sold on all Euro-spec E9x M3's. (without spacers) They do not fit the U.S.-spec Style 219 18x8.5 OEM front wheels sold here. (without using 10mm spacers)

This is because the Style 219 18" OEM wheels were originally designed to accommodate RUN FLAT TIRES (not because of TPMS modules), so they have a different internal rim design compared when compared to the non-run flat 18" wheels.

The non-run flat (Style 260) wheels will of course clear the AP Racing BBK up front, but the run-flat designed 18" OEM wheel will have spoke clearance issues.

Also,

Stalker,

If you ever have any technical questions about a BMW OEM wheel (or any aftermarket wheel for that matter), and you're concerned about a wheel/tire fitment issue, please don't hesitate to PM me for the correct answer.
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      03-10-2010, 08:50 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
The AP Racing BBK is built to fit the Style 260 18x8.5 OEM front wheels sold on all Euro-spec E9x M3's. (without spacers) They do not fit the U.S.-spec Style 219 18x8.5 OEM front wheels sold here. (without using 10mm spacers)
I'd like to add that the Style 260 front wheels were discontinued for the Euro-spec M3s in August 2009. We're also getting the Style 219 wheels now.


Best regards,
south
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      03-10-2010, 09:23 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
I'd like to add that the Style 260 front wheels were discontinued for the Euro-spec M3s in August 2009. We're also getting the Style 219 wheels now.


Best regards,
south
Interesting...

So all 2010 production E9x M3's going forward (including the Euro-spec models) will only use the 219 model OEM 18's that require spaers on the front 18x8.5 wheels. (presumably until the end of production).

So they finally decided to go with one 18" OEM wheel model worldwide.

Thanks for the update on the OEM 18's for the Euro-spec fitment cars Southlight.

That's a bummer for those who wanted to get the OEM 18x8.5 fronts that fit without spacers, but they can always use four 18x9.5 rears on every corner as an alternative.
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      03-10-2010, 03:54 PM   #295
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When I spoke to Tischer BMW they said they could get the 260s direct from Germany, the part numbers are still active.
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      03-10-2010, 06:49 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Most of what you state is correct, but the real reason the Style 219 wheel doesn't fit (without spacers), is not due to TPMS concerns.

The AP Engineers in the UK designed the AP Racing BBK for the E9x M3 (sold by STILLEN here in the U.S. market) around the Euro-spec Style 260 18" OEM wheels. They fit the E9x M3 18x8.5" OEM front wheels without spacers.

The only problem is...the UK engineers didn't realize (until late last year) that BMW actually built the 18" OEM wheels with 2 different wheel specifications for different world markets. (Style 219 & Style 260)

The AP Racing BBK is built to fit the Style 260 18x8.5 OEM front wheels sold on all Euro-spec E9x M3's. (without spacers) They do not fit the U.S.-spec Style 219 18x8.5 OEM front wheels sold here. (without using 10mm spacers)

This is because the Style 219 18" OEM wheels were originally designed to accommodate RUN FLAT TIRES (not because of TPMS modules), so they have a different internal rim design compared when compared to the non-run flat 18" wheels.

The non-run flat (Style 260) wheels will of course clear the AP Racing BBK up front, but the run-flat designed 18" OEM wheel will have spoke clearance issues.
Great clarification LMB! You are correct in that the UK base did not know last spring about the wheels for the run-flats as they were not sold into Europe. We found out about it on this side of the pond. Either way, the rotor is set inboard as far as possible, so even if they did have a Style 219 wheel in hand to work with, it still would not been possible to clear the spokes with the components chosen to do the job.

Chris
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      03-11-2010, 03:16 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Most of what you state is correct, but the real reason the Style 219 wheel doesn't fit (without spacers), is not due to TPMS concerns.

The AP Engineers in the UK designed the AP Racing BBK for the E9x M3 (sold by STILLEN here in the U.S. market) around the Euro-spec Style 260 18" OEM wheels. They fit the E9x M3 18x8.5" OEM front wheels without spacers.

The only problem is...the UK engineers didn't realize (until late last year) that BMW actually built the 18" OEM wheels with 2 different wheel specifications for different world markets. (Style 219 & Style 260)

The AP Racing BBK is built to fit the Style 260 18x8.5 OEM front wheels sold on all Euro-spec E9x M3's. (without spacers) They do not fit the U.S.-spec Style 219 18x8.5 OEM front wheels sold here. (without using 10mm spacers)

This is because the Style 219 18" OEM wheels were originally designed to accommodate RUN FLAT TIRES (not because of TPMS modules), so they have a different internal rim design compared when compared to the non-run flat 18" wheels.

The non-run flat (Style 260) wheels will of course clear the AP Racing BBK up front, but the run-flat designed 18" OEM wheel will have spoke clearance issues.

Also,

Stalker,

If you ever have any technical questions about a BMW OEM wheel (or any aftermarket wheel for that matter), and you're concerned about a wheel/tire fitment issue, please don't hesitate to PM me for the correct answer.
Thanks bud.
Im having Tischer double check on their availability, the 260s.
Im gonna order them if I can get my hands on them, for my winter set up.
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      03-12-2010, 01:02 PM   #298
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Chris, thanks for the all the support and your help on the forums.
It has certainly made our job of offering AP Racing brakes a lot easier!

for All those interested, we did a physical check of the AP Racing kit on the Advan RS 18" and they will work. I have also confirmed that they will work with such wheels as the new Volk vR G2.
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      03-12-2010, 06:04 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius@WSTO View Post
Chris, thanks for the all the support and your help on the forums.
It has certainly made our job of offering AP Racing brakes a lot easier!

for All those interested, we did a physical check of the AP Racing kit on the Advan RS 18" and they will work. I have also confirmed that they will work with such wheels as the new Volk vR G2.
No sweat. Just don't tell anyone I'm looking forward to an E90 M3 in the future. The "other" guys I help might not like it! I miss the feeling of pushing my old E28 M5 around corners and the E60 M5 does not do it for me. Hell, the E90 is LARGER AND HEAVIER than the E28.

Thanks for posting the wheel fit checks. I've made a few notes for future reference.

Chris
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      03-12-2010, 06:06 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julius@WSTO View Post
Chris, thanks for the all the support and your help on the forums.
It has certainly made our job of offering AP Racing brakes a lot easier!

for All those interested, we did a physical check of the AP Racing kit on the Advan RS 18" and they will work. I have also confirmed that they will work with such wheels as the new Volk vR G2.
Nice.
Advan RS, TE37 or G2s would be ideal track set up.
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      03-21-2010, 07:06 AM   #301
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STALKER,
any feedback on this AP kit at the track?
if not, any 'spirited' street use feedback?

what pads (make, model, compound) did the front kit come with?

and which track pads do u plan on running .... if u havent already?
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      03-22-2010, 05:52 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
STALKER,
any feedback on this AP kit at the track?
if not, any 'spirited' street use feedback?

what pads (make, model, compound) did the front kit come with?

and which track pads do u plan on running .... if u havent already?
We will be running our E92 M3 with the AP Brakes on the track during Mfest, so we should be getting our own review up as well. Just keep your eyes peeled
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      03-23-2010, 11:37 AM   #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jurrian @ eas View Post
We will be running our E92 M3 with the AP Brakes on the track during Mfest, so we should be getting our own review up as well. Just keep your eyes peeled

What track
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      03-23-2010, 11:40 AM   #304
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Does anyone know if changing the pads is difficult on these?

Is there a top load bridge release like on the StopTechs?
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      03-23-2010, 11:55 AM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
What track
It's actually at the Las Vegas MotorSpeedway. This isn't the best picture but here's what the track looks like from above:



Hopefully in the future we could put up some times at Streets of Willow as well.
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      03-23-2010, 01:21 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
Does anyone know if changing the pads is difficult on these?

Is there a top load bridge release like on the StopTechs?
They couldn't be a whole lot easier. Just two bridge bolts on the front caliper. The rears use two pad pins that a punch and a hammer will quickly knock out. Bring a set of channel locks to pull the pads out when hot!

NOTE: For both front and rear, I recommend NOT running the anti-rattle clip at the track. If they get hot enough for a sustained period of time, they will start to temper back and lose their effectiveness on the street.


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      03-23-2010, 03:20 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
STALKER,
any feedback on this AP kit at the track?
if not, any 'spirited' street use feedback?

what pads (make, model, compound) did the front kit come with?

and which track pads do u plan on running .... if u havent already?
Sorry I did not post sooner, I was out of town.
No track use yet.
I have been up to the mountains twice and they were great. The pedal feel is like stock, just a touch firmer at the bottom of the pedal range.

Can't really give a good review till I get it out to the track though, but so far so good.
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      04-17-2010, 08:59 PM   #308
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First I want to thank Chris at AP racing for helping me solve a minor brake groan problem with my brakes. Nice to know someone is there to help if issues arise. Problem solved.

Yesterday was my first track day with my new AP BBK. I am a B group driver and have only been doing this for 2 years so I do not proclaim to be an expert by any means. All I have to say is that the brakes worked flawlessly. They did exactly what I wanted them to do when I wanted them to do it. I was able to brake later, and I was able to modulate the brakes much better. There is one area on the track which you need to brake lightly and previously I would unsettle the car. My feeling is that the stock brakes (in comparison to the AP brakes) are like an on-off switch. Much better brake modulation with the AP brakes.

Anyway I had a great day. At the end of the day my instructor, who last year was the driving event coordinator, said I could move up to the A group. I respectfully declined. Just can't believe how much fun I had and the brakes were a large part of it.
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