BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
GTB Performance
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-30-2010, 03:08 PM   #221
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,642
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
That would be a very smart move.

I suspect 18x9.5 +25 front & rear (square setup + 10mm spacers) ?

Or possibly a 18x9.5 +25 front and 18x10 +20 rear?
Advan RS 18x9.5 +25 front and 18x10 +20 rear would be perfect for me.
Want to run 265/35 front and 285/35 rear.
Don't want to run spacers either.
They should clear the BBK.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S

Last edited by STALKER; 01-30-2010 at 03:15 PM.
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2010, 03:25 PM   #222
Jaypod
Brigadier General
 
Jaypod's Avatar
 
Drives: Frozen Silver M3, AM V8V
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 4,934
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
Advan RS 18x9.5 +25 front and 18x10 +20 rear would be perfect for me.
Want to run 265/35 front and 285/35 rear.
Don't want to run spacers either.
They should clear the BBK.
I was thinking of running 18x10 with 275/35 on all 4 corners so they could be rotated.

I think I heard the Advans offer more clearance than the OEM's so clearing the AP's shouldnt be a problem (dont take my word though). I am not sure if they clear a 380MM kit, but wouldnt be surprised if they did.
Jaypod is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2010, 03:30 PM   #223
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
Advan RS 18x9.5 +25 front and 18x10 +20 rear would be perfect for me.
Want to run 265/35 front and 285/35 rear.
Don't want to run spacers either.
They should clear the BBK.
Those track tires sizes are good, but I would actually suggest that you consider upsizing the fronts to a bigger 275/35/18. (and and I'll tell you why...)

The E9x M3 is a bigger and heavier (3600lb) car. If you run a front tire that size it will not yield the same performance you experienced in the E46 M3.

A 265/35/18 tire is a little too small (25.3"), has a shorter sidewall, and a narrower section width. This combination will result in less front grip in the corners on the track.

I would suggest that you consider upsizing to a 275/35/18 tire instead, since that size is nearly identical to the stock 18" tire OD, and you'll have wider tires upfront (that have the necessary sidewall height) to improve your grip and cornering performance.

Just my .02...
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2010, 03:32 PM   #224
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
I was thinking of running 18x10 with 275/35 on all 4 corners so they could be rotated.

I think I heard the Advans offer more clearance than the OEM's so clearing the AP's shouldnt be a problem (dont take my word though). I am not sure if they clear a 380MM kit, but wouldnt be surprised if they did.
The 18" Advan RS wheels do indeed clear a 380mm BBK's from both Brembo & Stop Tech.

So the slightly smaller AP Racing BBK will be no sweat.
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2010, 03:38 PM   #225
Jaypod
Brigadier General
 
Jaypod's Avatar
 
Drives: Frozen Silver M3, AM V8V
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 4,934
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
The 18" Advan RS wheels do indeed clear a 380mm BBK's from both Brembo & Stop Tech.

So the slightly smaller AP Racing BBK will be no sweat.
Thanks Lemans! I knew you would be able to clarify!

Based on your recommendation to Stalker to run the 275/35 on the front, for a staggered setup would you suggest bumping the rear to a 295 to maintain similar handling characteristics in relation to the OEM setup?
Jaypod is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2010, 04:24 PM   #226
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,642
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Those track tires sizes are good, but I would actually suggest that you consider upsizing the fronts to a bigger 275/35/18. (and and I'll tell you why...)

The E9x M3 is a bigger and heavier (3600lb) car. If you run a front tire that size it will not yield the same performance you experienced in the E46 M3.

A 265/35/18 tire is a little too small (25.3"), has a shorter sidewall, and a narrower section width. This combination will result in less front grip in the corners on the track.

I would suggest that you consider upsizing to a 275/35/18 tire instead, since that size is nearly identical to the stock 18" tire OD, and you'll have wider tires upfront (that have the necessary sidewall height) to improve your grip and cornering performance.

Just my .02...
Will it fit with et25, Motons and -2 camber?
I def want a bit more rubber out back, the e9X does not understeer as badly as the e46 M3 did. 275/35 front and 285/35 out back would be nice.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2010, 05:24 PM   #227
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
Thanks Lemans! I knew you would be able to clarify!

Based on your recommendation to Stalker to run the 275/35 on the front, for a staggered setup would you suggest bumping the rear to a 295 to maintain similar handling characteristics in relation to the OEM setup?
A 295/35/18 tire is pretty big for any 18x10 wheel, but for a track setup...YES that would work.

I would recommend that tire size only if you add a little more negative camber in the rear with the 18x10 +20 Advan RS though.

A 18x10 +25 offset rear wheel is actually tailor made for a 295/35/18 tire.

A 18x10 +20 offset rear wheel is a little too aggressive for a 295/35/18 tire IMO.

You might be able to increase the negative camber enough for it to fit, but even then...it will be very close to the outer fender.
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2010, 05:27 PM   #228
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
Will it fit with et25, Motons and -2 camber?
I def want a bit more rubber out back, the e9X does not understeer as badly as the e46 M3 did. 275/35 front and 285/35 out back would be nice.
YES, that front wheel/tire setup with a -2 degrees of negative camber will be just about ideal. (no rubbing issues)
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2010, 06:50 PM   #229
Jaypod
Brigadier General
 
Jaypod's Avatar
 
Drives: Frozen Silver M3, AM V8V
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 4,934
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
A 295/35/18 tire is pretty big for any 18x10 wheel, but for a track setup...YES that would work.

I would recommend that tire size only if you add a little more negative camber in the rear with the 18x10 +20 Advan RS though.

A 18x10 +25 offset rear wheel is actually tailor made for a 295/35/18 tire.

A 18x10 +20 offset rear wheel is a little too aggressive for a 295/35/18 tire IMO.

You might be able to increase the negative camber enough for it to fit, but even then...it will be very close to the outer fender.
Thanks for the info Lemans!
Jaypod is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2010, 09:22 PM   #230
JAJ
Captain
 
Drives: 2014 Shelby GT500
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC

Posts: 924
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Stalker,

I'm curious why you didn't completely remove the factory brake shields, when our cars have such poor factory cooling passages to help reduce heat build up during track sessions? (which was a pre-requisite for you in the purchase of this BBK)

By retaining the factory brake dust shields, it actually hinders the rotors ability to shed heat (on the inside rotor surface) since they act as a barrier that restricts airflow to the swept area of the rotor surface.

Not saying the AP Racing BBK can't overcome this liability, but retaining these shields certainly doesn't do it any favors (too help aid the cooling process)...

Just trying to understand the rationalization of keeping them vs. removing them entirely?

Also,

Do you have any plans to run, brake ducts, hoses, and backing plates to your new front BBK in the near future? (i.e. the GT4 setup)
I do my own mechanical work on the suspension and brakes, so I'm happy to test combinations that might not be easy for others.

Knowing that taking the front backing plates off would be easy if the brakes were too hot, I left them on when I installed my BBK. Then I measured the rotor temps with an IR thermometer at the first track day. Temps were good so I didn't bother to remove the backing plates.

AP also gives you a cross-check on the temperatures. They put thermal paint on the rotors at the factory. Mine changed color exactly to the colors you want to see when the brakes are heating up properly. The red "overheat" paint is still red - it changes to white if they get too hot.
JAJ is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2010, 06:39 AM   #231
mastek
e36s54, F10M5, e70X5d
 
mastek's Avatar
 
Drives: slow
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 1,549
iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Those track tires sizes are good, but I would actually suggest that you consider upsizing the fronts to a bigger 275/35/18. (and and I'll tell you why...)

The E9x M3 is a bigger and heavier (3600lb) car. If you run a front tire that size it will not yield the same performance you experienced in the E46 M3.

A 265/35/18 tire is a little too small (25.3"), has a shorter sidewall, and a narrower section width. This combination will result in less front grip in the corners on the track.

I would suggest that you consider upsizing to a 275/35/18 tire instead, since that size is nearly identical to the stock 18" tire OD, and you'll have wider tires upfront (that have the necessary sidewall height) to improve your grip and cornering performance.

Just my .02...

i run 265/35/18 up front and 285/30/18 rears (BFG R1) ..... and @ 8/10ths on the track the handling was surprisingly neutral and void of any understeer (I was shocked, actually)

and believe me ... i am the 1st to squeeze wider tires @ the front of track cars to try & dial- out understeer .... as I was expecting a ton of it in my 3900 lbs (w me & Fuel) pig.
mastek is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2010, 05:39 PM   #232
aus
Major General
 
Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

Posts: 7,301
iTrader: (5)

STALKER, how much brake fluid did it take for the install?
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
aus is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2010, 06:57 PM   #233
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,642
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
STALKER, how much brake fluid did it take for the install?
I bought 3 bottles, each is 500ml.
You could get away with two, but it might be close.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2010, 07:19 PM   #234
Jaypod
Brigadier General
 
Jaypod's Avatar
 
Drives: Frozen Silver M3, AM V8V
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 4,934
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
I bought 3 bottles, each is 500ml.
You could get away with two, but it might be close.
What did the kit ship with? 2 500ml bottles? Also, how come you decided not to just run with what it came with first and switch over after?
Jaypod is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2010, 08:21 PM   #235
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,642
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
What did the kit ship with? 2 500ml bottles? Also, how come you decided not to just run with what it came with first and switch over after?
Kit didn't come with anything.
I was going to actually try the AP Racing PRF, but my local shop only had 2 bottles, and I was already using RBF600. Didn't want to take the chance of needing that third bottle for the flush, especially since I was already using RBF 600 on the car.
I got the day off last minute, so I did not have time to order brake fluid in advance.
Im gonna use SRF next time I think though.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2010, 09:08 PM   #236
Jaypod
Brigadier General
 
Jaypod's Avatar
 
Drives: Frozen Silver M3, AM V8V
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 4,934
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
Kit didn't come with anything.
I was going to actually try the AP Racing PRF, but my local shop only had 2 bottles, and I was already using RBF600. Didn't want to take the chance of needing that third bottle for the flush, especially since I was already using RBF 600 on the car.
I got the day off last minute, so I did not have time to order brake fluid in advance.
Im gonna use SRF next time I think though.
Thanks - I could have swore a quote I got mentioned included fluid, just not sure what. I will have to check my PM's.

You cant go wrong with the RBF600 - I was thinking about just getting the SRF and being done with it. It needs to warm up here so it will force me to just order the kit!
Jaypod is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2010, 09:28 PM   #237
STALKER
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 3,642
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaypod View Post
Thanks - I could have swore a quote I got mentioned included fluid, just not sure what. I will have to check my PM's.

You cant go wrong with the RBF600 - I was thinking about just getting the SRF and being done with it. It needs to warm up here so it will force me to just order the kit!
RBF is good stuff, never had any issues with it.
So far no noise from the kit/pads either, which is good. I did my best to bed them in properly so far.
__________________

2008 AW/FR E90 M3-SOLD
2013 991 C4S
STALKER is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2010, 09:43 PM   #238
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek View Post
i run 265/35/18 up front and 285/30/18 rears (BFG R1) ..... and @ 8/10ths on the track the handling was surprisingly neutral and void of any understeer (I was shocked, actually)
+1

I ran the exact setup as you do. There is no need for a square setup on this car IMO. If the goal is to stuff the widest possible rubber in both the front and the rear, then I'd go with 275/295 and the stagger would be maintained by definition.
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2010, 12:03 AM   #239
jml
Captain
 
jml's Avatar
 
Drives: E90M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 984
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
+1

I ran the exact setup as you do. There is no need for a square setup on this car IMO. If the goal is to stuff the widest possible rubber in both the front and the rear, then I'd go with 275/295 and the stagger would be maintained by definition.
A square setup gets an extra day out of your tires (via rotation). But I might exchange that for 295s in the rear, it really needs a little more traction out back.
jml is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2010, 08:07 AM   #240
lucid
Major General
 
lucid's Avatar
 
Drives: E30 M3; Expedition
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 8,034
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jml View Post
A square setup gets an extra day out of your tires (via rotation). But I might exchange that for 295s in the rear, it really needs a little more traction out back.
Looking at the wear on my R1s, I don't know that I would have gained much by rotation, but maybe that's just me...
__________________
lucid is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2010, 03:17 PM   #241
Dascamel
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Dascamel's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 e92 M3, 2010 e91 328i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bakersfield, CA

Posts: 1,662
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Looking at the wear on my R1s, I don't know that I would have gained much by rotation, but maybe that's just me...
How much camber did you run Lucid?
__________________
2008 E92 M3 Jerez Black,DCT,Fox Red ext,Prem,Tech,19", ipod/usb, CF roof and trim
2010 E91 328i Space Gray,Black int, M sport, most options
2007 Montego Blue 335i (retired)
Dascamel is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2010, 03:28 PM   #242
Jaypod
Brigadier General
 
Jaypod's Avatar
 
Drives: Frozen Silver M3, AM V8V
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

Posts: 4,934
iTrader: (7)

Quote:
Originally Posted by STALKER View Post
RBF is good stuff, never had any issues with it.
So far no noise from the kit/pads either, which is good. I did my best to bed them in properly so far.
That's good to know - sounds like you are doing a good job of bedding them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Looking at the wear on my R1s, I don't know that I would have gained much by rotation, but maybe that's just me...
Yeah, probably just you.... I agree with you though, square set up is probably not required. I guess depending your your driving style there may be not advantage of rotating the tires. A square set up may actually cause the rear wheels to wear much sooner being able to rotate the back end easier.
Jaypod is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST