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      08-31-2009, 08:28 PM   #23
bobbyd1961
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Wow, so your saying you thought they went out of business in, lets say, in 1989?!?! Did you even have the internet then? Most likely no....
actually i think the 1984 vette was motortrend car of the year. i got that car in 84 new and it was the worst hunk of crap i ever had. almost invoked lemonlaw forced them to give me a new engine. NICE PICK MOTORTREND. and i loved corvettes until that 84
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      08-31-2009, 08:44 PM   #24
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But Mary Lou Retton had one
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      08-31-2009, 08:51 PM   #25
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Man I want some of what these guys are smoking !!! Ohhh I got it the list is backwards.

Bottoms up !!!
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      08-31-2009, 10:00 PM   #26
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Randy probst is a big p***y. Scared of the zr1, said he liked the CTS better yet the cts had more oversteer than the zr1. called the cayman a "race car" haha race car, it couldnt scare my grandmother.
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      08-31-2009, 10:17 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by 503Alex View Post
No GT3???
Exactly, because there is no doubt in my mind it would have won.
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      08-31-2009, 10:36 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by GatorBlue371 View Post




Why bring back a car that ALREADY lost? They mix up the crowd every year...


R8 was there so you know the M3 didnt have a chance.
Please read these two paragraphs again:
Enter 2009's test. For this go-around we addressed a shortcoming that now seems obvious to us. In our efforts to ascertain the best-handling car, we overlooked some vital data: our expert subjectivity. Sure, we'll continue to keenly heed every observation made by Pobst, who graciously joins our team again, but this year we're going to listen to ourselves more, considering such nuances as a car's ability to induce driver confidence and its prowess at enveloping our judges in ergonomic delight.

What's most striking about the Porsche Cayman S Vehicle Dynamics Score is that it doesn't appear to be remarkable at all. It took turning off our elaborate test equipment and simply wrapping our hands on its steering wheel to finally get the picture ... And when the results were compiled, our affection for the Cayman S became starkly apparent.
Now let me translate just in case you still don't get it:
We love the Cayman S, but its performance in the objective tests was nothing remarkable. So we decided to turn off the testing equipment and give more weight to our subjective judgment. Actually, we think our judgment is even more important than Randy Pobst's.
So you're probably right on one thing: the other cars never had a chance.

Of course, I exaggerate, but you deserve it for being such a fanboy. They say clearly that there is a good dose of subjectivity in this test. Why can't you accept it? Do you really need to hear that you have the best car in the world, bar none (even the GT3)?

Honestly, if you had to pick between a Cayman S and a GT3, assuming that price was no object, which one would you pick?

Last edited by drivendriver; 08-31-2009 at 10:57 PM.
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      08-31-2009, 11:18 PM   #29
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^Absolute craziness, all praise the GT3.

Seriously, id the title is 'best driver's car' then leaving the GT3 out is absolutely ridiculous.
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      08-31-2009, 11:24 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by JC919 View Post
^Absolute craziness, all praise the GT3.

Seriously, id the title is 'best driver's car' then leaving the GT3 out is absolutely ridiculous.
100% agree.

2010 GT3 = My dream machine
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      09-01-2009, 01:09 AM   #31
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Interesting not sure how the Jaguar XFR and Camaro SS beat out the M3?!?

They may be nice cars but both are more of a grand tourer/cruiser than a "drivers" car. The "driver" is pretty ambiguous.
OK, here is my take on this list. Please excuse if I get it wrong with the US branded cars as I know little about them.

The R8 is there because it's probably the new V10 which is just out, same for the XFR, the M3 and GT3 are probably last year's models.

Are all the other cars involved new or only recently tested by the mag?
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      09-01-2009, 01:40 AM   #32
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no GT3......
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      09-01-2009, 05:10 AM   #33
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GT3 is a good track car but not for driving on roads.

M3 should've been on the list as it's very soft in comparison.

It's funny how quick people turn when their favorite doesn't come out on top. Oh yeah, the last 10 years were legit and just now is when the results are being affected by advertisers.
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      09-01-2009, 07:40 AM   #34
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best driver car is really a very subjective preference. Like an old grandpa would think the jag is the best driver car (not talking about footie, lol). Then a young 30 years old guy would think the hard core gt3 is the best driver car. then somewhere the guy at 50 in his mid life crisis would think the cayman with it softer ride and well behave on the track which doesn't cause heart attack is the best driver car and he just leave the pdk in auto most of the time on the track cause it shifts better than he does, exactly like this tester.

i bet another tester would have a completely different ranking. but I'm sure lot of buyer would jump on these cars based on this mag ranking.
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      09-01-2009, 10:01 AM   #35
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best driver car is really a very subjective preference...
Absolutely, and, in my opinion, this is why BMWs are held in such high regard by so many "sporty" drivers of whatever age bracket. As I've mentioned before, my belief is that there are two areas in which BMWs (nearly all BMWs) excel.

The first is the ride/handling compromise, and I feel that BMW consistently does a better job in this regard than anyone else. For any given level of handling prowess, competency and "feel", a BMW has a more creamy and comfortable ride - and this is pretty much appealing to everyone, even the hard core types.

The second (and the ride/handling compromise is critical here) is that at any given price point and intended usage, BMW makes the best back-road bandits. They tend to have long, well-controlled suspension travel, so the typical bumps, frost heaves and badly repaired potholes simply have no effect. You just serenely motor on. Cars that are quicker on smooth roads (Vettes, for instance) stand no chance on a typical less-than-perfect back road.

These two attributes have extremely broad appeal, hence the wide popularity amongst users and the press.
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      09-01-2009, 10:19 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graider View Post
best driver car is really a very subjective preference. Like an old grandpa would think the jag is the best driver car (not talking about footie, lol). Then a young 30 years old guy would think the hard core gt3 is the best driver car. then somewhere the guy at 50 in his mid life crisis would think the cayman with it softer ride and well behave on the track which doesn't cause heart attack is the best driver car and he just leave the pdk in auto most of the time on the track cause it shifts better than he does, exactly like this tester.

i bet another tester would have a completely different ranking. but I'm sure lot of buyer would jump on these cars based on this mag ranking.
As for the PDK, man you just can imagine how much better it is the M-DCT. The thing judges the right gear as good as I would and until they fix those awful buttons for changing gears I would also leave it in D on the track. In fact it BMW had produced their gearbox to the standard of the PDK I bet I would still be driving the M3 and loving every moment.

On the subject of this post I think Autocar and EVO do the whole 'Driver's Car of the Year' thing better than most and the reason for that is because usually several testers score the cars each and then each is totaled up in combination with their lap times.

Here's Autocar's Winner plus the cars it was compared to

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallp...=242434&Mode=B

BTW is was the new Lotus Evora that won, with the Aston Martin V12 Vantage second.

EVO ran an article on the best Driver's Car Ever and my wee Lotus Elan got into the top ten (I think it actually ended up 5th or 6th) which just shows how gifted Colin Chapman was all those. My wee Elan might explain why I prefer the Cayman much more than the 997 because it too is so easy to drive, a really joy in fact though it's been in storage for the last few years awaiting a restore job (when I get round to it).

P.S.

Hold off with the Grandpa comments when mentioning Jags , only joking.

I just collected it today (approx 3 hrs ago) and it's a revelation, the thing oozes quality, especially the Portfolio model that no BMW can, not even the seven series and it's so quiet, I mean ultra quiet and refined. Will post photos later as it's pissing down here at the moment.

Go to collect the wife's new GTI tomorrow so hopefully she will be as happy then too.
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      09-01-2009, 10:49 AM   #37
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my boss wife bought the new jag xfr. that thing is awesome.

but i told her to upgrade the rim asap. the stock rim is just urg.
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      09-01-2009, 10:56 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epik View Post
GT3 is a good track car but not for driving on roads.
I take it that you've never driven a GT3. The car is perhaps better as a road car in that its an ultimate road car, and its still faster that many more expensive cars when on track. It is a car that I could easily use as a DD (7.1 or 7.2), and I would this would make me a very happy.
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      09-01-2009, 01:39 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by JC919 View Post
I take it that you've never driven a GT3. The car is perhaps better as a road car in that its an ultimate road car, and its still faster that many more expensive cars when on track. It is a car that I could easily use as a DD (7.1 or 7.2), and I would this would make me a very happy.
Well there you go, you comments just prove how impossible it is to determine how one should define a road car and a track car. I would agree with most others that the GT3 is too extreme to be classed as a daily driver but that's only my opinion, you see things differently.

I wouldn't agree that it's better on the road than the track, it's the track where it truly shines, on the road it's ultra stiff suspension can compromise the levels of grip if the surface is overly bumpy. Here I would reckon the GTR is the ultimate road car but only if getting from A to B the quickest is most important.
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      09-01-2009, 02:04 PM   #40
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I find Motor Trend to be an irrelevant car magazine for driving enthusiasts. The only reviews that have less useful information about driving are found in Consumer Reports.
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      09-01-2009, 02:04 PM   #41
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^agree to disagree
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      09-01-2009, 03:36 PM   #42
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I don't think this has been brought up yet, but I'm sure most of ya'll already know that Motor trend holds their annual "The Best Handling Car Contest", but they're now changing that up to "The Best Driver's Car Contest".

So NATURALLY, I expected my beloved M3 to easily make the cut and be present within the competition.......BUT it wasn't!!!??!!

What gives??

Here's the list of all the competitors in the order of the final rankings:

1.) 2009 PORSCHE CAYMAN S PDK
2.) 2009 AUDI R8
3.) 2009 MAZDA MX-5 MIATA
4.) 2009 CADILLAC CTS-V
5.) 2010 FORD SHELBY GT500
6.) 2009 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1
7.) 2010 NISSAN NISMO 370Z
8.) 2010 JAGUAR XFR
9.) 2009 BMW 135I
10.) 2010 CHEVROLET CAMARO SS


Also, here's the link if you wanna read the entire article: http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...car/index.html

The list is stupid. No 911, no M3, no GTR but instead a tiny Miata, a piggish CTS-V, a mustang and a Camaro.

Most of those cars are nice but they're not in the same handling league (except the ZR1 and R8) as a 911, M3, or GTR.
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      09-01-2009, 03:48 PM   #43
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The list is stupid. No 911, no M3, no GTR but instead a tiny Miata, a piggish CTS-V, a mustang and a Camaro.

Most of those cars are nice but they're not in the same handling league (except the ZR1 and R8) as a 911, M3, or GTR.
Did you forget to include the Cayman S in the list that incuded the ZR1 and R8 or didn't you think it was good enough.
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      09-02-2009, 05:22 PM   #44
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The list is stupid. No 911, no M3, no GTR but instead a tiny Miata, a piggish CTS-V, a mustang and a Camaro.

Most of those cars are nice but they're not in the same handling league (except the ZR1 and R8) as a 911, M3, or GTR.
Like previously stated a M3 and GTR were in last year's test with the R8 winning. They bring back only the winner to compete against new or revised models.

Regardless, I feel like it would be tough to argue against the #1 and #2 in the comparo, though their positions certainly can.
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