BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Wheels + Tires Sponsored by The Tire Rack
  TireRack

KEEP M3POST ALIVE BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER LINK!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-26-2009, 06:08 PM   #1
KMIII
///M
 
KMIII's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 M-DCT E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 403
iTrader: (1)

Help me with my wheel decision

Just starting to mod my E92 and thinking about getting some wheels. I was looking into the VMR V710s which I really like, but am drifting away from because the wheels are not wide enough. I really like the look of Tom's SG E92 with the VMR's but I want a 10.5" or 11" rear wheel. Is that possible with the V710s?

If not, what do you guys think about Forgestar? I know that Forgestar offers a wider wheel. I want to stay within my range of 2.5-3k for the wheels (with tires) because I want to get some exhaust work done as well. Do you guys have any suggestions of wheels around that price range?
KMIII is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-26-2009, 06:40 PM   #2
Ryan@IND
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Ryan@IND's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Chicago

Posts: 4,263
iTrader: (16)

Send a message via AIM to Ryan@IND Send a message via Skype™ to Ryan@IND
forgestar is a great option when you want something that wide with that price range.

you are able to do something like: 19 - 9.0 front and 19 - 11.0 rear.
give us a call and we can help you out with that!
Ryan@IND is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-26-2009, 07:00 PM   #3
david @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
david @ eas's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anaheim

Posts: 4,056
iTrader: (5)

To be honest the 9.5" is perfectly fine, it's a great set up, you get great grip if you match it with a good tire, and if you like the design of the wheels, I honestly wouldn't pass it up. here's a few pictures of our E92 M3 a while back with these wheels:









If you ever want to take a look at these wheels in person, feel free, or just send me a message if you have any questions
david @ eas is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-26-2009, 07:04 PM   #4
Johnny Lin
Lieutenant General
 
Johnny Lin's Avatar
 
Drives: AW E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bellevue, WA

Posts: 11,312
iTrader: (42)

Go with forgestart, I believe it has way better quality than the VMR and it looks great also.
Johnny Lin is offline   Taiwan
0
Reply With Quote
      08-26-2009, 07:14 PM   #5
LateBraking
Brigadier General
 
LateBraking's Avatar
 
Drives: Reliable Cars
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Pacific Standard Time

Posts: 3,878
iTrader: (27)

Sounds like you're going for looks, so I think tire width is fine for VMR's. They're pretty popular too. 9.5 inch with 265 tires on the rear is pretty wide (stock specs), and more than good enough for daily driven and show applications.

The VMR's I like in design better. I like the Forgestars because they seem like a good track wheel, given their cost, weight, and the custom offsets and sizes that you can order them in.

I say that because I've seen plenty of VMR's in person on the new M3, and I think they look good. The only Forgestar F14's I've seen in real life so far were on a Porsche Cayman and an Audi TT.
LateBraking is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-26-2009, 07:50 PM   #6
VMRWheels
Lieutenant General
 
VMRWheels's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Anaheim, CA

Posts: 12,946
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2014 BMW F22  [0.00]
2013 BMW F06  [0.00]
2013 BMW F30  [0.00]
How about 9.5" +22 V710's with 265/30/19's all around?

-Charles@VMRWheels
__________________

VMR | Wheels - Mitch A. | 714-442-7916 extension 107 | e. Mitch@velocitymotoring.com
VMRWheels is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-26-2009, 08:29 PM   #7
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMIII View Post
Just starting to mod my E92 and thinking about getting some wheels. I was looking into the VMR V710s which I really like, but am drifting away from because the wheels are not wide enough. I really like the look of Tom's SG E92 with the VMR's but I want a 10.5" or 11" rear wheel. Is that possible with the V710s?

If not, what do you guys think about Forgestar? I know that Forgestar offers a wider wheel. I want to stay within my range of 2.5-3k for the wheels (with tires) because I want to get some exhaust work done as well. Do you guys have any suggestions of wheels around that price range?
It's very difficult to build a strong gravity cast wheel (that is wider than 10") without compromising the long term durability. This is the nature of CAST wheels in general, and gravity cast wheels in particular. Even if someone wanted to build a 10.5" or 11" gravity cast (or even low pressure cast) rear wheel, it would weigh 32-35 lbs. Who's going to buy that?

The porosity of these wheels will limit what size you can build. The larger you go, the more likely you are to incur structural integrity issues.

On the other hand, Forgestar uses Flow-Form casting method, which results in a much tighter grain structure, that has fewer inclusions. (metallurgical imperfections) The metal grain flows in the same direction, which improves the mechanical properties of the wheel. The strength of a flow-formed cast wheel is more uniform throughout the entire wheel surface, and thus the wheel is less likely to bend or crack upon impact with a curb or pothole. It's not as strong as a forged wheel of course, but it's the best technology available in cast wheel manufacturing.

Now that advantage also drives up the price of the wheels as a result. Aftermarket wheels that are made utilizing the flow-form casting method increases the tooling and manufacturing costs. (compared to gravity and low pressure casting methods)

By using flow-form casting, Forgestar can build a cast wheel that is very wide without the same fears that gravity and low pressure cast competitors will face. That doesn't mean they are bulletproof, but they will resist bending and cracking much better than the other two options. (assuming the same wheel design)

Also...

Regardless of which casting method is used, it will be difficult to get a lightweight cast wheel that is also very strong. That's because the strength of the cast wheels is tied very closely to the total mass used in the final product. This is also true of high-tonnage forged wheels (8000T), but the margin for error is much wider. In other words, you have greater latitude in shaving off metal without sacrificing the overall strength of the wheel.

With cast wheels, these margins are much, much smaller. As you whittle away metal (to achieve a lighter weight), you can also reduce the overall yield strength of the wheel if you cross the line. (bypassing the minimum mass threshold required for that design) It's a delicate balancing act, and you cannot go too far. If you do, it will defeat the entire point of building a stronger (more expensive to manufacture) flow-formed wheel product. You can literally create a structural weak point where none existed before. FEA stress simulations, building an actual test wheel prototype, and applying real world impact, cornering load, and fatigue durability testing (at a certified wheel testing facility), is essential to avoiding this worst case scenario. This will reveal where the boundaries are. (limits)

FYI: It's important to note, that no aftermarket wheel is immune to bending or cracking with enough impact force. (no matter how much it costs) Overall quality is not always directly tied to the price you pay. Don't make the mistake of assuming otherwise.


All that being said, I would strongly recommend the following cast wheels in the under 3k price range:

BBS (of course)
OZ Racing
ENKEI

Two companies that I'm currently on the fence with:

Forgestar
Alufelgen

Not enough solid info in my research database to recommend either of these brands yet. Contacted both a while back, but I am very disappointed with the some of the decisions made by each brand to this point. Hopefully things will improve in the very near future. They both seem to have some promise, but I have seen my fair share of promising company's go under by not making the right decisions at the right time.

Timing, preparation, applying proven marketing strategies, and solid business management skills are crucial. Customer service issues, and a poor product supply stream (to meet the demand), will hurt you in the ultra-competitive aftermarket wheel business.
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-27-2009, 12:14 AM   #8
aus
Major General
 
Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

Posts: 7,304
iTrader: (5)

LMB, what were your concerns about those two companies? How they do business or how they make the wheels?
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
aus is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-27-2009, 10:38 AM   #9
elp_jc
Brigadier General
 
Drives: .
Join Date: May 2008
Location: .

Posts: 4,910
iTrader: (0)

I'm of the opinion if you're not going to improve what you have (less weight, same or better strength), which means a forged wheel, why bother. Do the exhaust, and if/when you save enough money for a better wheel than stock, go for it. The other option to maximize wheel money is to stay with stock sizes (they're plenty wide IMO), so you don't have to buy tires. But either way, I'd do it right, even if it takes longer, but it's your car. Good day.
elp_jc is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-27-2009, 10:55 AM   #10
attila
Lieutenant
 
attila's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 GT3RS, 2010 MX-5, 2009 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Omaha, NE

Posts: 522
iTrader: (0)

I would also put the Yokohama Advan wheels among the "trusted" cast wheels.
attila is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-27-2009, 11:16 AM   #11
modbargains
Brigadier General
 
modbargains's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E90 335i & 01 Toyota Avalon
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: La Habra, CA

Posts: 3,164
iTrader: (5)

From what you're telling us, ForgeStar meets all of your needs and wants in a set of wheels. Great wheels at an even great value!

With custom sizing and offsets for a great price point, you're also getting a flow form cast wheel that is lightweight and stronger then traditional gravity and low pressure cast wheels. Lemans blue M say said it best,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
On the other hand, Forgestar uses Flow-Form casting method, which results in a much tighter grain structure, that has fewer inclusions. (metallurgical imperfections) The metal grain flows in the same direction, which improves the mechanical properties of the wheel. The strength of a flow-formed cast wheel is more uniform throughout the entire wheel surface, and thus the wheel is less likely to bend or crack upon impact with a curb or pothole. It's not as strong as a forged wheel of course, but it's the best technology available in cast wheel manufacturing.
modbargains is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-27-2009, 11:53 AM   #12
Moxie
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Moxie's Avatar
 
Drives: AW 328d Touring/SG 335d
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Stuttgart

Posts: 1,859
iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
LMB, what were your concerns about those two companies? How they do business or how they make the wheels?
Moxie is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      08-27-2009, 05:02 PM   #13
Lemans_Blue_M
Automotive Industry Insider
 
Lemans_Blue_M's Avatar
 
Drives: Lemans Blue M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas

Posts: 1,948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
LMB, what were your concerns about those two companies? How they do business or how they make the wheels?
It's nothing major at this point.

Not enough time has lapsed since each brand was created, so the jury is still out on the overall quality of these new wheels. (too early to make a call in my book)

Aftermarket wheels need to be on the market a while, to properly determine the durability of the product IMO. With every passing month, the story of these two brands is being written. How the wheels hold up over this time period is crutial.

Whether the wheels can take a sustained beating without failing, remains to be seen.

Street driven wheels are subjected to a lot of abuse on a day-to-day basis. It's very important that they survive this real world torture testing. (with flying colors)

The build construction methods used are important, but I don't use that one aspect as a make or break litmus test.

A poorly designed flow-formed wheel will fail, before a better designed low-pressure cast wheel design. It's not as simple as it looks. Wheel design and manufacturing methods will vary from brand to brand, but the premier wheel company's do EVERYTHING well. That includes all aspects of running a successful business model.

The ultimate quality of the products you produce...is only part of the story. You will be judged on how well you do these other things.

There are many other factors that I weigh, when I decide to buy a particular product. (or recommend that product to anyone else)

I contacted both Forgstar and Alufelgen directly, and I am encouraged by the response I got from both brands.

I compile a large database of information about a given company's marketing & advertising methods, access to information about your company's products, reaction and resolution to customer service complaints, response time to customer inquiry's/price quotes, QA/QC (quality assurance/quality control) programs that are implemented in-house, raw materials/processes used in the product manufacturing phase, and finally how well they respond to the desires of the market they serve. (building what the potential customers want to buy)

Spouting pointless BS, or wall papering every board on the internet with slick advertising campaigns...is a major strike against any aftermarket company in my book. (regardless of what you are selling)

Just tell me why I should buy YOUR product over everything else that is currently available? That's all I really want to know. How does your product stack up against the established products in that same category?

Products that never address the core quality aspects of the actual product drive me nuts.
__________________
The best is yet to come...
Lemans_Blue_M is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2009, 04:14 PM   #14
aus
Major General
 
Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

Posts: 7,304
iTrader: (5)

LMB, Thanks again.

What do you know about these Alloy Technic wheels?
They're suppose to be 8000 TON forged and seem very light.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293798

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...hlight=technic


Also, how are the BBS cast wheels made?
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
aus is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      08-30-2009, 05:42 PM   #15
elp_jc
Brigadier General
 
Drives: .
Join Date: May 2008
Location: .

Posts: 4,910
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
They're suppose to be 8000 TON forged and seem very light.
Does anybody know what's the rating on our stock 19s? Just curious if there's anything stronger than those.
elp_jc is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:47 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST